Chinese Trade War

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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby AZGrizFan » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:41 am

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
That’s true - but I conflated China’s trade behaviors with our own spending orgy at home. If trade with China was not affected by other factors (like our national debt and China’s ownership of it) then I think that our own ability to compete with them would have more wiggle room (and unpredictability)

But when I say it is too late for us, I am compounding our trade deficits with China’s ownership of the majority of our debt. Trade is, as you say, unpredictable. Our own idiocy is not.


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I wonder whether we’d be worse off if the Red Chunks simply stopped buying our debt. Serious question.


Well hey, if they stop buying, demand goes down, yields go up and it WILL sell...it always sells, especially when the stock market is as psycho as it is now.
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby houndawg » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:04 am

CID1990 wrote:
UNI88 wrote:I've never done that but would bet it is true.

When I worked with the Chinese I had a translator to help me. I would run email communications through Google translate and compare it to her translations for sh!ts & giggles. In a pinch I could use Google translate to understand the gist of something sent to me but I would absolutely never use it to convert something I was sending to someone else.

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I ride with a Thai MC occasionally and for weekenders they like to put their itineraries on Facebook. Let me tell you that nothing is funnier than Thai run through Google translate

Example:

1100: the lunch at wonderful park of scenes

1200: wheel spin

1500: we give you gas if not money

1700: enjoy relaxation and cool drug of flower place resort

2000: party girl


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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby CID1990 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:08 pm

houndawg wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I ride with a Thai MC occasionally and for weekenders they like to put their itineraries on Facebook. Let me tell you that nothing is funnier than Thai run through Google translate

Example:

1100: the lunch at wonderful park of scenes

1200: wheel spin

1500: we give you gas if not money

1700: enjoy relaxation and cool drug of flower place resort

2000: party girl


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Back when Playboy only showed titties they surveyed international airline pilots about where the prettiest women were. Thailand won.


I guess it is really all in the eye of the beholder

Thai women are pretty to be sure but my observation is they can be quite shallow

I’m more particular to the Vietnamese

I have an ongoing discussion with a friend here (over cigars and whisky... usually on Saturday nights) and one theme we have talked about is the cultural differences between the mainland SE Asian countries (Burma-Thailand-Laos-Cambodia-Vietnam)

You can spend a lifetime in Thailand and never have a philosophical discussion with a Thai

You cannot know a Vietnamese for more than a day WITHOUT having a philosophical discussion (or about music, or poetry or art, or where the absolute best duck soup can be found)

The Vietnamese have a joie d vivre that is unmatched


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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby Ivytalk » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:26 am

CID1990 wrote:
houndawg wrote:

Back when Playboy only showed titties they surveyed international airline pilots about where the prettiest women were. Thailand won.


I guess it is really all in the eye of the beholder

Thai women are pretty to be sure but my observation is they can be quite shallow

I’m more particular to the Vietnamese

I have an ongoing discussion with a friend here (over cigars and whisky... usually on Saturday nights) and one theme we have talked about is the cultural differences between the mainland SE Asian countries (Burma-Thailand-Laos-Cambodia-Vietnam)

You can spend a lifetime in Thailand and never have a philosophical discussion with a Thai

You cannot know a Vietnamese for more than a day WITHOUT having a philosophical discussion (or about music, or poetry or art, or where the absolute best duck soup can be found)

The Vietnamese have a joie d vivre that is unmatched


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My nephew is engaged to a Vietnamese woman. Believe me, he outkicked his coverage. :thumb:
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby houndawg » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:49 am

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I guess it is really all in the eye of the beholder

Thai women are pretty to be sure but my observation is they can be quite shallow

I’m more particular to the Vietnamese

I have an ongoing discussion with a friend here (over cigars and whisky... usually on Saturday nights) and one theme we have talked about is the cultural differences between the mainland SE Asian countries (Burma-Thailand-Laos-Cambodia-Vietnam)

You can spend a lifetime in Thailand and never have a philosophical discussion with a Thai

You cannot know a Vietnamese for more than a day WITHOUT having a philosophical discussion (or about music, or poetry or art, or where the absolute best duck soup can be found)

The Vietnamese have a joie d vivre that is unmatched


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My nephew is engaged to a Vietnamese woman. Believe me, he outkicked his coverage. :thumb:


As have about 85% of men planet-wide :coffee:
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby houndawg » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:54 am

CID1990 wrote:
houndawg wrote:

Back when Playboy only showed titties they surveyed international airline pilots about where the prettiest women were. Thailand won.


I guess it is really all in the eye of the beholder

Thai women are pretty to be sure but my observation is they can be quite shallow

I’m more particular to the Vietnamese

I have an ongoing discussion with a friend here (over cigars and whisky... usually on Saturday nights) and one theme we have talked about is the cultural differences between the mainland SE Asian countries (Burma-Thailand-Laos-Cambodia-Vietnam)

You can spend a lifetime in Thailand and never have a philosophical discussion with a Thai

You cannot know a Vietnamese for more than a day WITHOUT having a philosophical discussion (or about music, or poetry or art, or where the absolute best duck soup can be found)

The Vietnamese have a joie d vivre that is unmatched


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They're also some hellified woodworkers judging by the Vietnamese guitars I saw in New Zealand - none that I heard were very well voiced but the woodwork was breathtaking
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby Ivytalk » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:18 pm

houndawg wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:My nephew is engaged to a Vietnamese woman. Believe me, he outkicked his coverage. :thumb:


As have about 85% of men planet-wide :coffee:

I need some JSO regression/chi-square analysis to prove that.
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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby SeattleGriz » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:40 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
houndawg wrote:
As have about 85% of men planet-wide :coffee:

I need some JSO regression/chi-square analysis to prove that.
Lol! I was just thinking the same thing. Apparently 85% of women marry beneath them. Equality my ass.
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby AZGrizFan » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:43 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
houndawg wrote:
As have about 85% of men planet-wide :coffee:

I need some JSO regression/chi-square analysis to prove that.


He DEFINITELY won’t understand the dynamics of THOSE statistics. :dunce: :dunce:
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby CID1990 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:17 pm

houndawg wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I guess it is really all in the eye of the beholder

Thai women are pretty to be sure but my observation is they can be quite shallow

I’m more particular to the Vietnamese

I have an ongoing discussion with a friend here (over cigars and whisky... usually on Saturday nights) and one theme we have talked about is the cultural differences between the mainland SE Asian countries (Burma-Thailand-Laos-Cambodia-Vietnam)

You can spend a lifetime in Thailand and never have a philosophical discussion with a Thai

You cannot know a Vietnamese for more than a day WITHOUT having a philosophical discussion (or about music, or poetry or art, or where the absolute best duck soup can be found)

The Vietnamese have a joie d vivre that is unmatched


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They're also some hellified woodworkers judging by the Vietnamese guitars I saw in New Zealand - none that I heard were very well voiced but the woodwork was breathtaking


Woodworking, ceramics, lacquer, silk embroidery -

They aren't quite up to the Japanese standard, but the Vietnamese create beautiful things

They are also some of the greatest mechanics in the world. Most of those trucks and things we left behind after the war? Unless they rusted through they are mostly still running. I used to see jeeps all the time - restored to near mint condition. And hilariously - the paint jobs with the US Army stenciled markings are often misspelled

A lot of these "old world" skills that the Vietnamese possess are in danger of being lost as their standard of living increases and more money goes in their pockets. They don't have to create all their own things as much anymore - or keep that old Citroen running
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby houndawg » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:57 am

Ivytalk wrote:
houndawg wrote:
As have about 85% of men planet-wide :coffee:

I need some JSO regression/chi-square analysis to prove that.


35 years.

Plus another 5 shacking up
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby SeattleGriz » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:59 am

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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby Ivytalk » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:41 pm

houndawg wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:I need some JSO regression/chi-square analysis to prove that.


35 years.

Plus another 5 shacking up

Serially, or with the same woman?
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby Chizzang » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:12 pm

SeattleGriz wrote:Xi in a tough spot. 3D chess.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t=business


China has - all the money - all the manufacturing - all the technology (stolen or otherwise)
and a citizenry that is mostly enslaved...

and Europe waiting in the wings for the U.S. to get out of the way
What exactly do you think 'Xi has to lose..?

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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby SeattleGriz » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:35 pm

Chizzang wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:Xi in a tough spot. 3D chess.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t=business


China has - all the money - all the manufacturing - all the technology (stolen or otherwise)
and a citizenry that is mostly enslaved...

and Europe waiting in the wings for the U.S. to get out of the way
What exactly do you think 'Xi has to lose..?

:geek:
The article points out Xi has few good options. Taking a meeting with Trump at G20 or face more tariffs? That's a lose lose for Xi.

I think you overestimate China. Trump's been kissing business ass all around China's neighbors. Let's send our business to those guys.
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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby Chizzang » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:51 pm

SeattleGriz wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
China has - all the money - all the manufacturing - all the technology (stolen or otherwise)
and a citizenry that is mostly enslaved...

and Europe waiting in the wings for the U.S. to get out of the way
What exactly do you think 'Xi has to lose..?

:geek:
The article points out Xi has few good options. Taking a meeting with Trump at G20 or face more tariffs? That's a lose lose for Xi.

I think you overestimate China. Trump's been kissing business ass all around China's neighbors. Let's send our business to those guys.


The article doesn't mention much about China as a whole...
it observers China as if it were a European entity with the same wants and needs that we have
even going as far as to quote a university professor

That's the problem with a "Business Magazine" run by Wall Street pundits
They think everybody is in on the same game

We have no real idea what matters to Xi
as I said - if he cared about what we care about China would be something completely different

:nod:

The Peking University Professor acts like Xi will acquiesce to some popular movement
which might be the dumbest thing I've seen in print since Dab
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby CID1990 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:00 pm

SeattleGriz wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
China has - all the money - all the manufacturing - all the technology (stolen or otherwise)
and a citizenry that is mostly enslaved...

and Europe waiting in the wings for the U.S. to get out of the way
What exactly do you think 'Xi has to lose..?

:geek:
The article points out Xi has few good options. Taking a meeting with Trump at G20 or face more tariffs? That's a lose lose for Xi.

I think you overestimate China. Trump's been kissing business ass all around China's neighbors. Let's send our business to those guys.


We already sent “our business” to those other guys - we no longer get our “rubber dog sh1t” from China, and haven’t for some time

It doesn’t take high tech in manufacturing to produce what China used to produce for us en masse - tshirts, plastic furniture, cheap shoes, single use plastics, etc. That stuff started moving to Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and others years ago

China has made deliberate, successful efforts to bump up their tech sector abilities and now they stand astride the huge gap that exists between the few rich countries whose citizens can get the new iphone each year, and countries where hunger and infant mortality look like America in 1670... China alone stands ready to own the world’s “middle class”- with cheaper alternatives to all your fancy expensive gadgets

smart phones
cars
commercial aircraft
weapons systems for export
ships

“Those” guys cannot make any of the above ^^^^ and they would need 40 years to develop the ability. Like China had

BTW - we aren’t the customers for China’s new products. Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe are (and those untapped markets are HUGE) The 2025 project and the Belt and Road initiative are not coincidences


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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby SeattleGriz » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:42 am

CID1990 wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:The article points out Xi has few good options. Taking a meeting with Trump at G20 or face more tariffs? That's a lose lose for Xi.

I think you overestimate China. Trump's been kissing business ass all around China's neighbors. Let's send our business to those guys.


We already sent “our business” to those other guys - we no longer get our “rubber dog sh1t” from China, and haven’t for some time

It doesn’t take high tech in manufacturing to produce what China used to produce for us en masse - tshirts, plastic furniture, cheap shoes, single use plastics, etc. That stuff started moving to Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and others years ago

China has made deliberate, successful efforts to bump up their tech sector abilities and now they stand astride the huge gap that exists between the few rich countries whose citizens can get the new iphone each year, and countries where hunger and infant mortality look like America in 1670... China alone stands ready to own the world’s “middle class”- with cheaper alternatives to all your fancy expensive gadgets

smart phones
cars
commercial aircraft
weapons systems for export
ships

“Those” guys cannot make any of the above ^^^^ and they would need 40 years to develop the ability. Like China had

BTW - we aren’t the customers for China’s new products. Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe are (and those untapped markets are HUGE) The 2025 project and the Belt and Road initiative are not coincidences


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I only buy the finest of fake dog ****.

I also realize a lot of what is going on, is a battle for 5G and more importantly tech leadership. China can't match the US ability to produce the quality of microchips needed and the US would like to keep it that way.

A person can also see what Trump is trying to do. The US has the infrastructure for raw materials, ability to manufacture and the people to buy the stuff we make. Make America Great Again by making it in the USA and keep all the money here.

Im still a little new to the subject.
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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby kalm » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:02 am

SeattleGriz wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
We already sent “our business” to those other guys - we no longer get our “rubber dog sh1t” from China, and haven’t for some time

It doesn’t take high tech in manufacturing to produce what China used to produce for us en masse - tshirts, plastic furniture, cheap shoes, single use plastics, etc. That stuff started moving to Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and others years ago

China has made deliberate, successful efforts to bump up their tech sector abilities and now they stand astride the huge gap that exists between the few rich countries whose citizens can get the new iphone each year, and countries where hunger and infant mortality look like America in 1670... China alone stands ready to own the world’s “middle class”- with cheaper alternatives to all your fancy expensive gadgets

smart phones
cars
commercial aircraft
weapons systems for export
ships

“Those” guys cannot make any of the above ^^^^ and they would need 40 years to develop the ability. Like China had

BTW - we aren’t the customers for China’s new products. Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe are (and those untapped markets are HUGE) The 2025 project and the Belt and Road initiative are not coincidences


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I only buy the finest of fake dog ****.

I also realize a lot of what is going on, is a battle for 5G and more importantly tech leadership. China can't match the US ability to produce the quality of microchips needed and the US would like to keep it that way.

A person can also see what Trump is trying to do. The US has the infrastructure for raw materials, ability to manufacture and the people to buy the stuff we make. Make America Great Again by making it in the USA and keep all the money here.

Im still a little new to the subject.


Welcome to kalmunism. Where the conks are now finally embracing national interests and middle class support through trade policy while donks have completely flipped flopped on this issue because...Trump.

:facepalm:
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby SeattleGriz » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:23 am

kalm wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:I only buy the finest of fake dog ****.

I also realize a lot of what is going on, is a battle for 5G and more importantly tech leadership. China can't match the US ability to produce the quality of microchips needed and the US would like to keep it that way.

A person can also see what Trump is trying to do. The US has the infrastructure for raw materials, ability to manufacture and the people to buy the stuff we make. Make America Great Again by making it in the USA and keep all the money here.

Im still a little new to the subject.


Welcome to kalmunism. Where the conks are now finally embracing national interests and middle class support through trade policy while donks have completely flipped flopped on this issue because...Trump.

:facepalm:
I think most Americans want the same, but were led to believe that out sourcing our manufacturing was a good thing (cheap).

Trump has been trying to turn this around, but the globalists sure like their money.

My company recently sent engineering to Ukraine for $ .20 on the dollar. Globalism.
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby CID1990 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:49 am

SeattleGriz wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
We already sent “our business” to those other guys - we no longer get our “rubber dog sh1t” from China, and haven’t for some time

It doesn’t take high tech in manufacturing to produce what China used to produce for us en masse - tshirts, plastic furniture, cheap shoes, single use plastics, etc. That stuff started moving to Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and others years ago

China has made deliberate, successful efforts to bump up their tech sector abilities and now they stand astride the huge gap that exists between the few rich countries whose citizens can get the new iphone each year, and countries where hunger and infant mortality look like America in 1670... China alone stands ready to own the world’s “middle class”- with cheaper alternatives to all your fancy expensive gadgets

smart phones
cars
commercial aircraft
weapons systems for export
ships

“Those” guys cannot make any of the above ^^^^ and they would need 40 years to develop the ability. Like China had

BTW - we aren’t the customers for China’s new products. Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe are (and those untapped markets are HUGE) The 2025 project and the Belt and Road initiative are not coincidences


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I only buy the finest of fake dog ****.

I also realize a lot of what is going on, is a battle for 5G and more importantly tech leadership. China can't match the US ability to produce the quality of microchips needed and the US would like to keep it that way.

A person can also see what Trump is trying to do. The US has the infrastructure for raw materials, ability to manufacture and the people to buy the stuff we make. Make America Great Again by making it in the USA and keep all the money here.

Im still a little new to the subject.


Well you said it all right there...

China is battling us for 5G leadership

During the Korean War their soldiers had maggots crawling on their bodies while they were walking around

some of them didnt even have guns... they were just told to loot the piles of dead

I’d say that given how far the Charlie bastards have come in the last 50 years we’re pretty well fcuked

Fighting us for 5G supremacy indeed


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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby Ibanez » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:08 am

CID1990 wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:The article points out Xi has few good options. Taking a meeting with Trump at G20 or face more tariffs? That's a lose lose for Xi.

I think you overestimate China. Trump's been kissing business ass all around China's neighbors. Let's send our business to those guys.


We already sent “our business” to those other guys - we no longer get our “rubber dog sh1t” from China, and haven’t for some time

It doesn’t take high tech in manufacturing to produce what China used to produce for us en masse - tshirts, plastic furniture, cheap shoes, single use plastics, etc. That stuff started moving to Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and others years ago

China has made deliberate, successful efforts to bump up their tech sector abilities and now they stand astride the huge gap that exists between the few rich countries whose citizens can get the new iphone each year, and countries where hunger and infant mortality look like America in 1670... China alone stands ready to own the world’s “middle class”- with cheaper alternatives to all your fancy expensive gadgets

smart phones
cars
commercial aircraft
weapons systems for export
ships

“Those” guys cannot make any of the above ^^^^ and they would need 40 years to develop the ability. Like China had

BTW - we aren’t the customers for China’s new products. Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe are (and those untapped markets are HUGE) The 2025 project and the Belt and Road initiative are not coincidences


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:clap: :clap: :clap:

And i've been saying the same about manufacturing for years. Vietnam, which i'm sure you are aware, has made a multi-billion investment into getting American manufacturing jobs and it's worked.
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby Ibanez » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:03 am

CID1990 wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:I only buy the finest of fake dog ****.

I also realize a lot of what is going on, is a battle for 5G and more importantly tech leadership. China can't match the US ability to produce the quality of microchips needed and the US would like to keep it that way.

A person can also see what Trump is trying to do. The US has the infrastructure for raw materials, ability to manufacture and the people to buy the stuff we make. Make America Great Again by making it in the USA and keep all the money here.

Im still a little new to the subject.


Well you said it all right there...

China is battling us for 5G leadership

During the Korean War their soldiers had maggots crawling on their bodies while they were walking around

some of them didnt even have guns... they were just told to loot the piles of dead

I’d say that given how far the Charlie bastards have come in the last 50 years we’re pretty well fcuked

Fighting us for 5G supremacy indeed


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IMO, The US is following behind. We don't produce the gear necessary the way the Chinese and Koreans do. Huawei, ZTE, Ericcson and Nokia (China, Sweden and Finland) are way ahead of us. Cell phone manufacturers need to buy those transmitters and install them into their phones/tablets. There are some phone companies, like Samsung and others in Asia, which are doing both.

Qualcomm is in the hunt, they are a major player for sure. But America isn't a dominant player. I'm not sure how far Intel has come with 5G. Sure, the big 4 (Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile and AT&T) have rolled out 5G in some cities as a test, but the network infrastructure and mobile devices required just aren't there yet.

I thin the UK has recently rolled out 5G but I haven't stayed up to date on it. So my opinion might be different if I got current.
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby CID1990 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:09 pm

As if right on cue - Robert Kaplan with a powerful set of essays on China and why we get them so wrong-

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/am ... pire-63102

I've been saying a lot of this for a long time...

*China provides economic development without lectures on governance
*China is a Confucian state
*Our own culture of national pride is crumbling from within and college curricula are an indicator of that
*We are stabilizing Afghanistan for other countries to exploit, not us (that's for you, Clitz)
*China is not culturally or technologically inferior to us
*China got where they are due to an integrated strategy of investment, trade, theft, national focus, military development, and big-picture self awareness

The framework of the Chinese Empire is nearly complete and we take little notice
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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War

Postby SeattleGriz » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:32 pm

CID1990 wrote:As if right on cue - Robert Kaplan with a powerful set of essays on China and why we get them so wrong-

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/am ... pire-63102

I've been saying a lot of this for a long time...

*China provides economic development without lectures on governance
*China is a Confucian state
*Our own culture of national pride is crumbling from within and college curricula are an indicator of that
*We are stabilizing Afghanistan for other countries to exploit, not us (that's for you, Clitz)
*China is not culturally or technologically inferior to us
*China got where they are due to an integrated strategy of investment, trade, theft, national focus, military development, and big-picture self awareness

The framework of the Chinese Empire is nearly complete and we take little notice
So how did the USA miss the boat? Not questioning you.
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