Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Skjellyfetti » Wed May 29, 2019 2:03 pm

Trump "renegotiated" NAFTA? (Pending Congressional approval, approval of Mexico, and approval by Canada) :lol:

Kinda like how he "ended" NK's nuke program? (Pending NK approval) :lol:
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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Ibanez » Wed May 29, 2019 2:18 pm

BDKJMU wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
One could argue that the economy is an extension of Obama's policies. What has Trump done, actually done, for the economy? Trade wars? Tax cut for the wealthy?

Newsflash- it wasn’t just the wealthy that got tax cuts.
And deregulation.
And ending the Obamacare mandate.
And renegotiating NAFTA.
And pulling out of the Paris Climate deal which would have cost our economy trillions.


We can go back and forth on some of the regulations.

How’s that NAFTA 2.0 going? Has Congress approved it?

I would’ve preferred amending the ACA but I did disagree with requiring Americans to be consumers.


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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Ibanez » Wed May 29, 2019 2:19 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:Trump "renegotiated" NAFTA? (Pending Congressional approval, approval of Mexico, and approval by Canada) :lol:

Kinda like how he "ended" NK's nuke program? (Pending NK approval) :lol:

Let’s not forget the tariffs which are hurting our farmers.


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Re: RE: Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby SeattleGriz » Wed May 29, 2019 2:19 pm

Ibanez wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Newsflash- it wasn’t just the wealthy that got tax cuts.
And deregulation.
And ending the Obamacare mandate.
And renegotiating NAFTA.
And pulling out of the Paris Climate deal which would have cost our economy trillions.


We can go back and forth on some of the regulations.

How’s that NAFTA 2.0 going? Has Congress approved it?

I would’ve preferred amending the ACA but I did disagree with requiring Americans to be consumers.


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Why wouldn't Congress approve NAFTA 2?
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Re: RE: Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby BDKJMU » Wed May 29, 2019 2:55 pm

SeattleGriz wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
We can go back and forth on some of the regulations.

How’s that NAFTA 2.0 going? Has Congress approved it?

I would’ve preferred amending the ACA but I did disagree with requiring Americans to be consumers.


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Why wouldn't Congress approve NAFTA 2?

Orange Man Bad.

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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby CID1990 » Wed May 29, 2019 3:49 pm

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Well, if we’re going to knock people for their mythologies I don’t know how we quantify Mormons as being worse than anybody else



Really..?
more stupid stuff is "more" stupid than the regular amount of stupid stuff
it can be pretty easily measured

if you're seriously suggesting that Mormonism isn't easily recognized as "dumber" than Catholicism
then I will gladly explain how that works

Dumb can be measured - it's quantifiable

:nod:


I was responding to what appeared to be an assertion that there are varying degrees of kookiness to believing in Santa Claus

So how much Santa Claus can a politician believe in and still be qualified for high office in your highly quantifiable world?


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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Chizzang » Wed May 29, 2019 4:20 pm

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Really..?
more stupid stuff is "more" stupid than the regular amount of stupid stuff
it can be pretty easily measured

if you're seriously suggesting that Mormonism isn't easily recognized as "dumber" than Catholicism
then I will gladly explain how that works

Dumb can be measured - it's quantifiable

:nod:


I was responding to what appeared to be an assertion that there are varying degrees of kookiness to believing in Santa Claus

So how much Santa Claus can a politician believe in and still be qualified for high office in your highly quantifiable world?


In my highly quantifiable world
(and thank you for that nod, I laughed)

A politician can believe in the common Religions of antiquity
pretty much anything handed down for the past 1500 years or so (or more)
but not Ben Carson level - where you have portraits painted of you and your deity embracing

and certainly nothing freshly concocted (see: L.Ron Hubbard)
where even a brief moment of reasonable investigation destroys the foundation
at least the olde tyme religions can stand on ancient fables
and make no mention of how God is so much less helpful today

:coffee:
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Re: RE: Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby SDHornet » Wed May 29, 2019 5:35 pm

UNI88 wrote:
Ibanez wrote:How much power does the American President truly have over the economy? Our economy is massive and contains many moving parts. It's global. Is it a combo of Obama policies, Trump policies, the environment many people perceive to exist under Republican leadership? :coffee: Those are sincere questions. American Presidents can't bend the market to their will - if that were so than we'd always have a great economy and wouldn't have any recessions or depressions. I'm not sure the POTUS is that powerful.

That's not to say, the DOW/S&P might not rise or fall based on a tweet or proposed tariff. But the stock market isn't the economy. Last year we saw stocks drop over fears that economic growth was too strong. So, it's not a 1:1 relationship. :coffee:
+1

The economy is yuge and impacted by a yuge number of factors.

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And yet here I am making money, Brown and black unemployment is at historic lows...

...but I guess Trump had nothing to do with it...mmmkay...

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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby SDHornet » Wed May 29, 2019 5:38 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:Trump "renegotiated" NAFTA? (Pending Congressional approval, approval of Mexico, and approval by Canada) :lol:

Kinda like how he "ended" NK's nuke program? (Pending NK approval) :lol:

No different than pallets of cash improving relations with Iran. :lol:

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Re: RE: Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby JohnStOnge » Wed May 29, 2019 5:39 pm

BDKJMU wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:Why wouldn't Congress approve NAFTA 2?

Orange Man Bad.


Do either of you guys know enough about NAFTA 2 to know whether it'd be a good idea for Congress to approve it or not. I will say up front that I do not.

But I'll also say that I have ZERO confidence in Trump knowing what he's doing in dealing with things like that.
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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Ibanez » Wed May 29, 2019 6:15 pm

SeattleGriz wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
We can go back and forth on some of the regulations.

How’s that NAFTA 2.0 going? Has Congress approved it?

I would’ve preferred amending the ACA but I did disagree with requiring Americans to be consumers.


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Why wouldn't Congress approve NAFTA 2?

I don’t know. I think it’s smart to revise trade agreements and laws. What worked in the 90s might not work in the 2020s.


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Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Ibanez » Wed May 29, 2019 6:17 pm

SDHornet wrote:
UNI88 wrote:+1

The economy is yuge and impacted by a yuge number of factors.

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And yet here I am making money, Brown and black unemployment is at historic lows...

...but I guess Trump had nothing to do with it...mmmkay...

Trump may be contributing to the environment that allows it but still - he can’t move the economy in one way or the other. There are so many other factors in play.

Besides - can you honestly prove that Trump alone is the reason for a strong economy?


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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby SeattleGriz » Wed May 29, 2019 6:58 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Orange Man Bad.


Do either of you guys know enough about NAFTA 2 to know whether it'd be a good idea for Congress to approve it or not. I will say up front that I do not.

But I'll also say that I have ZERO confidence in Trump knowing what he's doing in dealing with things like that.
I do know the new agreement reduces the dumping of Chinese goods into America.

Chinese would build a product, sell it to Mexico and Mexico would then bring it to America via NAFTA.

Trump even said the Chinese were smart to take advantage of that situation.

That's all I really cared about. Keep the N American trade among N America.
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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby CID1990 » Wed May 29, 2019 8:20 pm

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I was responding to what appeared to be an assertion that there are varying degrees of kookiness to believing in Santa Claus

So how much Santa Claus can a politician believe in and still be qualified for high office in your highly quantifiable world?


In my highly quantifiable world
(and thank you for that nod, I laughed)

A politician can believe in the common Religions of antiquity
pretty much anything handed down for the past 1500 years or so (or more)
but not Ben Carson level - where you have portraits painted of you and your deity embracing

and certainly nothing freshly concocted (see: L.Ron Hubbard)
where even a brief moment of reasonable investigation destroys the foundation
at least the olde tyme religions can stand on ancient fables
and make no mention of how God is so much less helpful today

:coffee:


The further removed from magical happenings that underpin their entire basis, the more credibility they have. That's certainly quantifiable :nod:

What about neo-Vikings like klam? Odin's a lot older than Abraham.

BTW I'll say this for Mormons - I work with a lot of them (they are prolific in the FS) and no Mormon ever creeped me out, proselytized to me, asked me if I was saved, tried to convince me that the earth is only about 6000 years old, etc... I also find them to be highly professional at work. Although he's a big government Republican, Romney was more qualified to the executive office than anybody since GHWB... magical underwear or not
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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Chizzang » Wed May 29, 2019 8:35 pm

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
In my highly quantifiable world
(and thank you for that nod, I laughed)

A politician can believe in the common Religions of antiquity
pretty much anything handed down for the past 1500 years or so (or more)
but not Ben Carson level - where you have portraits painted of you and your deity embracing

and certainly nothing freshly concocted (see: L.Ron Hubbard)
where even a brief moment of reasonable investigation destroys the foundation
at least the olde tyme religions can stand on ancient fables
and make no mention of how God is so much less helpful today

:coffee:


The further removed from magical happenings that underpin their entire basis, the more credibility they have. That's certainly quantifiable :nod:

What about neo-Vikings like klam? Odin's a lot older than Abraham.

BTW I'll say this for Mormons - I work with a lot of them (they are prolific in the FS) and no Mormon ever creeped me out, proselytized to me, asked me if I was saved, tried to convince me that the earth is only about 6000 years old, etc... I also find them to be highly professional at work. Although he's a big government Republican, Romney was more qualified to the executive office than anybody since GHWB... magical underwear or not


You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Mormon here in the Pacific North West
I've worked with many and also find them to be charming and professional and kind

and they don't proselytize because they understand how deranged the core of their faith is
they are the ONLY religion (to my knowledge) that has actively re-written their book (in real time)
to delete out the really stupid stuff as well as actively hide their fundamentalist brothers

:nod:

They get the game...
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A: The actual teachings of Jesus

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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby AZGrizFan » Wed May 29, 2019 8:40 pm

We’ve got 16 branches in Utah. 95% of our employees are Mormon. To a PERSON they are clean cut, professional, engaged and motivated. If that’s bad, I don’t want to be good.
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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby css75 » Wed May 29, 2019 9:10 pm

Living in Utah,I find their beliefs weird, but they are ethical in business, polite, and overall decent people. But, if you are not one of them, you get nowhere in the areas they dominate.


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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby CID1990 » Wed May 29, 2019 9:31 pm

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
The further removed from magical happenings that underpin their entire basis, the more credibility they have. That's certainly quantifiable :nod:

What about neo-Vikings like klam? Odin's a lot older than Abraham.

BTW I'll say this for Mormons - I work with a lot of them (they are prolific in the FS) and no Mormon ever creeped me out, proselytized to me, asked me if I was saved, tried to convince me that the earth is only about 6000 years old, etc... I also find them to be highly professional at work. Although he's a big government Republican, Romney was more qualified to the executive office than anybody since GHWB... magical underwear or not


You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Mormon here in the Pacific North West
I've worked with many and also find them to be charming and professional and kind

and they don't proselytize because they understand how deranged the core of their faith is
they are the ONLY religion (to my knowledge) that has actively re-written their book (in real time)
to delete out the really stupid stuff as well as actively hide their fundamentalist brothers


:nod:

They get the game...


Well then... sounds like all the older, more "established" religions could benefit from the Mormon model
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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby mainejeff » Thu May 30, 2019 4:54 am

I love Mormons.

White? Check
Good looking? Check
Clean cut? Check
Well behaved? Check.
Intelligent? Check
Polite? Check

:coffee:
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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Gil Dobie » Thu May 30, 2019 5:16 am

mainejeff wrote:I love Mormons.

White? Check
Good looking? Check
Clean cut? Check
Well behaved? Check.
Intelligent? Check
Polite? Check

:coffee:


Some great entertainers too

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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby mainejeff » Thu May 30, 2019 5:37 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
mainejeff wrote:I love Mormons.

White? Check
Good looking? Check
Clean cut? Check
Well behaved? Check.
Intelligent? Check
Polite? Check

:coffee:


Some great entertainers too



She's an outlier......but I LOVE Gladys!

:coffee:
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Re: RE: Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby SeattleGriz » Thu May 30, 2019 5:52 am

mainejeff wrote:I love Mormons.

White? Check
Good looking? Check
Clean cut? Check
Well behaved? Check.
Intelligent? Check
Polite? Check

:coffee:
The Mormons I have experience with, were also really good at sticking together. They tend to only associate with other Mormons.
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Re: RE: Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby mainejeff » Thu May 30, 2019 6:08 am

SeattleGriz wrote:
mainejeff wrote:I love Mormons.

White? Check
Good looking? Check
Clean cut? Check
Well behaved? Check.
Intelligent? Check
Polite? Check

:coffee:
The Mormons I have experience with, were also really good at sticking together. They tend to only associate with other Mormons.


Why would they want to associate with anyone else? They have it all....a perfect white Utopia. No wonder so many jealous Catholics and Baptists make fun of them.

:coffee:
Go Black Bears!

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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Gil Dobie » Thu May 30, 2019 6:13 am

I had a Hispanic Mormon room-mate for a couple years. Great friend, still keep in touch.
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Re: Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

Postby Ivytalk » Thu May 30, 2019 6:16 am

Gil Dobie wrote:I had a Hispanic Mormon room-mate for a couple years. Great friend, still keep in touch.

That’s a new one. Plenty of Samoan Mormons, but never knew of a Hispanic one. My nephew is dating a “Mormon chick” now.
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