Mexican Tariffs

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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by andy7171 »

mainejeff2 wrote:
andy7171 wrote:Question. It's going to be a tariff on Mexico. Why are people talking about paying 0.05$ more a taco. Or 0.25$ more for a burritto. The **** is made here. Taco Bell or Qdoba, doesn't import their food from south of the border! MaineJeff is a dipshit!
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by BDKJMU »

Looks like Mexico is finally taking steps to control/seal their southern border. Gee, I wonder what prompted them to do that?
https://reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1T62YC
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote:Mexico has come to the table over a possible “first safe country” deal

It looks like they may pay the danegeld

stay tuned


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Wouldn't America be paying the danegeld, or tax, to Mexico and the CA countries to avoid invasion and our lands being ravaged? :coffee:

I guess so, it's a kind of tribute.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by 93henfan »

BDKJMU wrote:Looks like Mexico is finally taking steps to control/seal their southern border. Gee, I wonder what prompted them to do that?
https://reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1T62YC
And with a government and populace as trustworthy as Mexico, I'm sure they'll stick to the deal for decades and nobody will take bribes from coyotes, cartels, and other movers of cargo and bodies.

I feel safer already.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by CAA Flagship »

93henfan wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Looks like Mexico is finally taking steps to control/seal their southern border. Gee, I wonder what prompted them to do that?
https://reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1T62YC
And with a government and populace as trustworthy as Mexico, I'm sure they'll stick to the deal for decades and nobody will take bribes from coyotes, cartels, and other movers of cargo and bodies.

I feel safer already.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by CID1990 »

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Mexico has come to the table over a possible “first safe country” deal

It looks like they may pay the danegeld

stay tuned


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Wouldn't America be paying the danegeld, or tax, to Mexico and the CA countries to avoid invasion and our lands being ravaged? :coffee:

I guess so, it's a kind of tribute.
I guess, depending on your point of view ... you could see it that way

I see the executive threatening Mexico with tariffs and then I see Mexico blinking

maybe


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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote:
Ibanez wrote: Wouldn't America be paying the danegeld, or tax, to Mexico and the CA countries to avoid invasion and our lands being ravaged? :coffee:

I guess so, it's a kind of tribute.
I guess, depending on your point of view ... you could see it that way

I see the executive threatening Mexico with tariffs and then I see Mexico blinking

maybe


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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by JohnStOnge »

93henfan wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Looks like Mexico is finally taking steps to control/seal their southern border. Gee, I wonder what prompted them to do that?
https://reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1T62YC
And with a government and populace as trustworthy as Mexico, I'm sure they'll stick to the deal for decades and nobody will take bribes from coyotes, cartels, and other movers of cargo and bodies.

I feel safer already.
Aside from that, the United States has no legitimate right to interfere with what Mexico wants to do in terms of letting people cross its southern border. It's just flat wrong for Trump to be doing this.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by BDKJMU »

JohnStOnge wrote:
93henfan wrote:
And with a government and populace as trustworthy as Mexico, I'm sure they'll stick to the deal for decades and nobody will take bribes from coyotes, cartels, and other movers of cargo and bodies.

I feel safer already.
Aside from that, the United States has no legitimate right to interfere with what Mexico wants to do in terms of letting people cross its southern border. It's just flat wrong for Trump to be doing this.
Wrong. Mexico is violating 1st country of asylum.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by Chizzang »

JohnStOnge wrote:
93henfan wrote:
And with a government and populace as trustworthy as Mexico, I'm sure they'll stick to the deal for decades and nobody will take bribes from coyotes, cartels, and other movers of cargo and bodies.

I feel safer already.
Aside from that, the United States has no legitimate right to interfere with what Mexico wants to do in terms of letting people cross its southern border. It's just flat wrong for Trump to be doing this.
Right and wrong have never been more meaningless than right now...
Regardless Mexico is completely corrupt
so who cares what they think

:nod:

also:
a Mexican revolution is about 50 years overdue
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Mexican Tariffs

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
93henfan wrote:
And with a government and populace as trustworthy as Mexico, I'm sure they'll stick to the deal for decades and nobody will take bribes from coyotes, cartels, and other movers of cargo and bodies.

I feel safer already.
Aside from that, the United States has no legitimate right to interfere with what Mexico wants to do in terms of letting people cross its southern border. It's just flat wrong for Trump to be doing this.
We have the right to do whatever they agree for us to do, John.

It is called diplomacy - which is exactly what happened here

We simply reminded them that they need us MUCH more than we need them.

“Diplomacy is the ability to tell people to go to Hell in a way that they look forward to the trip.”

It is unfortunate that you have slipped too far to see that this was a diplomatic win.


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Re: RE: Mexican Tariffs

Post by SeattleGriz »

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Aside from that, the United States has no legitimate right to interfere with what Mexico wants to do in terms of letting people cross its southern border. It's just flat wrong for Trump to be doing this.
We have the right to do whatever they agree for us to do, John.

It is called diplomacy - which is exactly what happened here

We simply reminded them that they need us MUCH more than we need them.

“Diplomacy is the ability to tell people to go to Hell in a way that they look forward to the trip.”

It is unfortunate that you have slipped too far to see that this was a diplomatic win.


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No shit. Especially considering the current Mexican President is very open borders.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by SeattleGriz »

Sounds like catch and release just took a big hit.

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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by BDKJMU »

93henfan wrote:This has no teeth to it whatsoever and Trump will back down. Grassley (R) has already condemned it. Next will be the automakers, as a LOT of models from Ford, GM, Toyota, Mazda, and VW (off the top of my head) come from Mexico and you can't just flip a switch and make a new factory and supply chain appear in Detroit.

Trump's game is getting tired.

And conflating immigration with trade is asinine.

PS. China is about to put a block on rare earth metals, so that'll be over soon too.
“....Under the deal, Mexico agreed to expand its policy of taking back migrants from violence-riven Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador as the United States processes their asylum claims.

Mexico will also use its new National Guard nationwide to crack down on illegal migration, in particular along its southern border with Guatemala, a gateway for poor Central Americans hoping to reach the US....”
https://news.yahoo.com/us-warns-mexico- ... 15953.html

Sounds like winning to me, even if Mexico only keeps up their end of the bargain through this year.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by BDKJMU »

SeattleGriz wrote:Sounds like catch and release just took a big hit.

3D Chess.
Yep.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by SDHornet »

So another Trump win?

Wonderful. 8-)
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by JohnStOnge »

Guys, we will see what happens. You have to understand that Trump is a person who believes in acting like he accomplished something when he didn't. If we look back at this point later and are able to point to data that says what just happened had a lasting effect on the illegal immigration thing then we can say yes what he did worked.

But you need only look at the "Art of the Deal Book" to see how he thinks. You can access the full text at https://archive.org/stream/TrumpDonaldT ... l_djvu.txt. You can do a "find" on dirt and find the part where he scammed Holiday Inn people by having construction people move dirt around to make it look like something was going on when nothing was really going on.

Also you can do a "find" on "want to believe" to see him saying he'll exaggerate in order to take advantage of what people want to believe.

I've already heard people, with Buttigieg being one of them, say that nothing much really happened with Mexico. Buttigieg said it was just a face saving exercise. Trump didn't really get much but needed to act like he did so he could back down on the tariffs. I saw a talking head claim that just about everything annoucned is stuff Mexico had already said it would do months ago.

Are they correct? I don't know. But I also won't think Trump really accomplished anything unless and until I see some evidence of an effect.

BTW even if the data end up suggesting what he did had the effect he wanted I will continue to think it was wrong for Trump to use a tariff threat like that to pressure another sovereign nation with respect to what it does with its southern border.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

SDHornet wrote:So another Trump win?

Wonderful. 8-)
Trump did win AGAIN but lets face it Mexico will fuck this up worse than their country. Even if Mexico tries they will only do it for 5 more years of the Trump presidency then they will resort back to the same old shit while the next president wont have the balls to do what Trump did.
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Re: RE: Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by UNI88 »

JohnStOnge wrote:You have to understand that I am a person who believes Trump accomplished nothing even when he did and I will ignore any evidence that shows he did.
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Re: RE: Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by JohnStOnge »

UNI88 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:You have to understand that I am a person who believes Trump accomplished nothing even when he did and I will ignore any evidence that shows he did.
FYP

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You can do that. But if the data show an association between this and a significant change in the situation I will say so.

And you do have to understand that Trump is a con man. He will indeed say something is going on when it's not. He described himself as such in his own book. And we've seen it many times since.

It's like with the NAFTA thing. He spent a bunch of time saying it was the worst deal ever. Then he made a big deal in getting into negotiations about it. And the negotiations resulted in some minor tweaking. Then he renamed it. But the truth is that it's still basically the same deal that he called the worst deal ever.

That's what he does.

You say I ignore evidence that "shows he did." I do not. What I do is lay the numbers out and show that the the numbers don't provide evidence to support what he and his supporters are claiming.
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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:Guys, we will see what happens. You have to understand that Trump is a person who believes in acting like he accomplished something when he didn't. If we look back at this point later and are able to point to data that says what just happened had a lasting effect on the illegal immigration thing then we can say yes what he did worked.

But you need only look at the "Art of the Deal Book" to see how he thinks. You can access the full text at https://archive.org/stream/TrumpDonaldT ... l_djvu.txt. You can do a "find" on dirt and find the part where he scammed Holiday Inn people by having construction people move dirt around to make it look like something was going on when nothing was really going on.

Also you can do a "find" on "want to believe" to see him saying he'll exaggerate in order to take advantage of what people want to believe.

I've already heard people, with Buttigieg being one of them, say that nothing much really happened with Mexico. Buttigieg said it was just a face saving exercise. Trump didn't really get much but needed to act like he did so he could back down on the tariffs. I saw a talking head claim that just about everything annoucned is stuff Mexico had already said it would do months ago.

Are they correct? I don't know. But I also won't think Trump really accomplished anything unless and until I see some evidence of an effect.

BTW even if the data end up suggesting what he did had the effect he wanted I will continue to think it was wrong for Trump to use a tariff threat like that to pressure another sovereign nation with respect to what it does with its southern border.
You think it’s wrong for Trump to use a tariff threat - check

That’s purely “because Trump”, John.

There’s no other reason for you to be against using a financial lever in negotiations - we’ve been doing it since we’ve been a country. Only now are you against it.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by UNI88 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
FYP

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You can do that. But if the data show an association between this and a significant change in the situation I will say so.

And you do have to understand that Trump is a con man. He will indeed say something is going on when it's not. He described himself as such in his own book. And we've seen it many times since.

It's like with the NAFTA thing. He spent a bunch of time saying it was the worst deal ever. Then he made a big deal in getting into negotiations about it. And the negotiations resulted in some minor tweaking. Then he renamed it. But the truth is that it's still basically the same deal that he called the worst deal ever.

That's what he does.

You say I ignore evidence that "shows he did." I do not. What I do is lay the numbers out and show that the the numbers don't provide evidence to support what he and his supporters are claiming.
I know Trump is a con man. But I'm also able to be intellectually honest and admit he's done some good things and had positive accomplishments.

You focus on quantitative evidence and ignore qualitative evidence.

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Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote:
You think it’s wrong for Trump to use a tariff threat - check

That’s purely “because Trump”, John.

There’s no other reason for you to be against using a financial lever in negotiations - we’ve been doing it since we’ve been a country. Only now are you against it.
If we have ever used financial levers in an attempt to change another country's practice with respect to who it allows to enter it I am not aware of it happening. This is not using economic sanctions to, say, pressure Iran into reducing support for Islamic insurgents outside of its borders. This is telling a sovereign nation that it cannot choose to allow people into its jurisdiction.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by JohnStOnge »

UNI88 wrote:
I know Trump is a con man. But I'm also able to be intellectually honest and admit he's done some good things and had positive accomplishments.

You focus on quantitative evidence and ignore qualitative evidence.
First I must say that I woke up on November 9, 2016, thinking the economy was going to suffer from Trump being elected. I thought, for example, that people would flee the stock market because an unstable, mentally ill person was going to be in that position. I did not think people would want to bet on the future under that circumstance and that they would try to cut their losses. And I thought that if he launched into the protectionist economic plans that would hurt the economy.

The data do not suggest that happened so I was wrong. I have no problem saying that.

I do focus on quantitative evidence and I think that if someone is going to claim they've improved something they need to be able to measure that improvement. I think there are instances in which quantitative assessment is not needed. If you're walking through Chicago, you see someone shoot someone else, and the someone else dies you don't need quantitative analysis to say getting shot resulted in death. But something like saying a President caused a change in the economy is different. In my opinion you can never show cause and effect. And if one is going to say that there is even suggestion of cause and effect one needs to, or SHOULD need to, show that there is evidence in the economic data of a change beyond the variation that has been occurring in the recent past.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Mexican Tariffs

Post by SeattleGriz »

JohnStOnge wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
I know Trump is a con man. But I'm also able to be intellectually honest and admit he's done some good things and had positive accomplishments.

You focus on quantitative evidence and ignore qualitative evidence.
First I must say that I woke up on November 9, 2016, thinking the economy was going to suffer from Trump being elected. I thought, for example, that people would flee the stock market because an unstable, mentally ill person was going to be in that position. I did not think people would want to bet on the future under that circumstance and that they would try to cut their losses. And I thought that if he launched into the protectionist economic plans that would hurt the economy.

The data do not suggest that happened so I was wrong. I have no problem saying that.

I do focus on quantitative evidence and I think that if someone is going to claim they've improved something they need to be able to measure that improvement. I think there are instances in which quantitative assessment is not needed. If you're walking through Chicago, you see someone shoot someone else, and the someone else dies you don't need quantitative analysis to say getting shot resulted in death. But something like saying a President caused a change in the economy is different. In my opinion you can never show cause and effect. And if one is going to say that there is even suggestion of cause and effect one needs to, or SHOULD need to, show that there is evidence in the economic data of a change beyond the variation that has been occurring in the recent past.
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