The Iran War

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Re: The Iran War

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

93henfan wrote:Nukes if they use them first, obviously. Otherwise, no. The US doesn't nuke countries that don't attack us unprovoked.

Turning Tehran to glass would be pretty awesome though, I must admit.
That may have been the case with all the shitbag presidents before Trump.

Theres a new sheriff in town and he gets things accomplished no matter how much congress tries to hamstring him.

Get ready for 4 more years of gloriousness! #TrumpTrain2020
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Re: The Iran War

Post by dbackjon »

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:
93henfan wrote:Nukes if they use them first, obviously. Otherwise, no. The US doesn't nuke countries that don't attack us unprovoked.

Turning Tehran to glass would be pretty awesome though, I must admit.
That may have been the case with all the shitbag presidents before Trump.

Theres a new sheriff in town and he gets things accomplished no matter how much congress tries to hamstring him.

Get ready for 4 more years of gloriousness! #TrumpTrain2020

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: The Iran War

Post by Ivytalk »

So we lost a drone. Big deal. Nobody has been killed yet. Dial back the testosterone, gents.
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Re: The Iran War

Post by JohnStOnge »

Ivytalk wrote:So we lost a drone. Big deal. Nobody has been killed yet. Dial back the testosterone, gents.
We have something going on that doesn't need to be going on. I was against the Iran deal when Obama did it. But we made a deal as far as the rest of the World is concerned. Then Trump came in and we went back on our word. We demonstrated that the word of the United States has no value. And now we are here.
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Re: The Iran War

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:So we lost a drone. Big deal. Nobody has been killed yet. Dial back the testosterone, gents.
We have something going on that doesn't need to be going on. I was against the Iran deal when Obama did it. But we made a deal as far as the rest of the World is concerned. Then Trump came in and we went back on our word. We demonstrated that the word of the United States has no value. And now we are here.
We have demonstrated that over and over and over again since WWII. I don’t see why you are suddenly obsessed with it now.

You sound like one of those pantywaist lefties in the early 80s wringing their hands over not wanting Reagan to make the Soviets mad

Iran is behaving belligerently, we are giving them very wide latitude, and you’re wringing your hands because you believe in appeasement

heck, even Trump just downplayed the drone shootdown



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Re: The Iran War

Post by SDHornet »

Heard there was going to be some missile strikes that Trump called off. Leftists will now probably pillory Trump for that move as well.

Going to war with Iran is idiotic and if we send troops in it would be like Afghanistan but 1000x worse as its geography is nothing like Iraq. If anything, we just blow up a few things from the air and call it good.

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Re: The Iran War

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SDHornet wrote:Heard there was going to be some missile strikes that Trump called off. Leftists will now probably pillory Trump for that move as well.

Going to war with Iran is idiotic and if we send troops in it would be like Afghanistan but 1000x worse as its geography is nothing like Iraq. If anything, we just blow up a few things from the air and call it good.
Agree 100%. The leftists should be grateful to Trump...if his resolve holds.
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Re: The Iran War

Post by SDHornet »

Ivytalk wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Heard there was going to be some missile strikes that Trump called off. Leftists will now probably pillory Trump for that move as well.

Going to war with Iran is idiotic and if we send troops in it would be like Afghanistan but 1000x worse as its geography is nothing like Iraq. If anything, we just blow up a few things from the air and call it good.
Agree 100%. The leftists should be grateful to Trump...if his resolve holds.
Agree, but it'll be funsies seeing the leftists stump for another war. Oh the irony. :rofl:

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Re: The Iran War

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SDHornet wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: Agree 100%. The leftists should be grateful to Trump...if his resolve holds.
Agree, but it'll be funsies seeing the leftists stump for another war. Oh the irony. :rofl:
I’m more worried about the rightists this time, like Lindsey Graham (who should know better) and Field Marshal von Bolton (who is irredeemable).
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Re: The Iran War

Post by SDHornet »

Ivytalk wrote:
SDHornet wrote: Agree, but it'll be funsies seeing the leftists stump for another war. Oh the irony. :rofl:
I’m more worried about the rightists this time, like Lindsey Graham (who should know better) and Field Marshal von Bolton (who is irredeemable).
Bolton and Pompeo are the real concerns here, and yes I fear this escalates into a full blown war.

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Re: The Iran War

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

Once again America should not step in they should only defend immediate threats to our country like on the Mexican border.

Let Assad kill all his people in Syria and let Iran do what they want. Those countries need to fight for themselves we shouldnt do it for them. Let them all die
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Re: The Iran War

Post by BDKJMU »

Those tankers that were hit I thought I read were Norwegian and Japanese flagged. Let the Norwegian and Japanese navies deal with that if they choose to.

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Re: The Iran War

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
We have something going on that doesn't need to be going on. I was against the Iran deal when Obama did it. But we made a deal as far as the rest of the World is concerned. Then Trump came in and we went back on our word. We demonstrated that the word of the United States has no value. And now we are here.
We have demonstrated that over and over and over again since WWII. I don’t see why you are suddenly obsessed with it now.
I am willing to listen and if it's true it's true. But do you have an example of a situation in which we did something like what we did with the Iran agreement? I'm talking about we make a high profile agreement involving a bunch of nations with one particular antagonist being featured. Then the antagonist honors its side of the agreement and we welsh on our end just because we changed Presidents.

If you've got an example of us doing something like that before then it is what it is. But I don't recall it.
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Re: The Iran War

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
We have demonstrated that over and over and over again since WWII. I don’t see why you are suddenly obsessed with it now.
I am willing to listen and if it's true it's true. But do you have an example of a situation in which we did something like what we did with the Iran agreement? I'm talking about we make a high profile agreement involving a bunch of nations with one particular antagonist being featured. Then the antagonist honors its side of the agreement and we welsh on our end just because we changed Presidents.

If you've got an example of us doing something like that before then it is what it is. But I don't recall it.
We promised South Vietnam - over and over and over that we would protect them from the North (for better or worse). Our Ambassador in Saigon, literally days before the city fell in April 1975 was assuring the South Vietnamese that our government would not turn its back on the them.

I’m sure you’ll parse this as not counting because there was no “formal” agreement, but I would remind you that the JCPOA was also a nonbinding, informal agreement.

Would you like more examples of American foreign policy fecklessness?


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Re: The Iran War

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
I am willing to listen and if it's true it's true. But do you have an example of a situation in which we did something like what we did with the Iran agreement? I'm talking about we make a high profile agreement involving a bunch of nations with one particular antagonist being featured. Then the antagonist honors its side of the agreement and we welsh on our end just because we changed Presidents.

If you've got an example of us doing something like that before then it is what it is. But I don't recall it.
We promised South Vietnam - over and over and over that we would protect them from the North (for better or worse). Our Ambassador in Saigon, literally days before the city fell in April 1975 was assuring the South Vietnamese that our government would not turn its back on the them.

I’m sure you’ll parse this as not counting because there was no “formal” agreement, but I would remind you that the JCPOA was also a nonbinding, informal agreement.

Would you like more examples of American foreign policy fecklessness?
Yes because I do not consider that an example of what I'm talking about. Iran is a "foe." We and our allies made an agreement with that foe. The foe agreed to do certain things and we agreed to do certain things. By all accounts the foe generally lived up to its end of the bargain. Then we had a Presidential election, a new President took office, and we reneged on our end of the bargain.

BTW I do not agree with what we did with Vietnam. There's a whole big deal there where the US won a resounding victory in repelling the Tet Offensive and it was somehow translated into a defeat. I can remember reading an account by a North Vietnamese general who said the North was about to give up because they got their ass kicked then they saw the cultural reaction in the US and realized they could exploit it.

But I don't think any of that relates to what I'm talking about with the Iran deal. We very publicly made an agreement with an adversary. The adversary lived up to its end of the bargain. We did not.
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Re: The Iran War

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
We promised South Vietnam - over and over and over that we would protect them from the North (for better or worse). Our Ambassador in Saigon, literally days before the city fell in April 1975 was assuring the South Vietnamese that our government would not turn its back on the them.

I’m sure you’ll parse this as not counting because there was no “formal” agreement, but I would remind you that the JCPOA was also a nonbinding, informal agreement.

Would you like more examples of American foreign policy fecklessness?
Yes because I do not consider that an example of what I'm talking about. Iran is a "foe." We and our allies made an agreement with that foe. The foe agreed to do certain things and we agreed to do certain things. By all accounts the foe generally lived up to its end of the bargain. Then we had a Presidential election, a new President took office, and we reneged on our end of the bargain.

BTW I do not agree with what we did with Vietnam. There's a whole big deal there where the US won a resounding victory in repelling the Tet Offensive and it was somehow translated into a defeat. I can remember reading an account by a North Vietnamese general who said the North was about to give up because they got their ass kicked then they saw the cultural reaction in the US and realized they could exploit it.

But I don't think any of that relates to what I'm talking about with the Iran deal. We very publicly made an agreement with an adversary. The adversary lived up to its end of the bargain. We did not.
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Re: The Iran War

Post by CitadelGrad »

Is it strange or predictable that the Dems,media and Iran all seem a little disappointed that Trump didn't retaliate?
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Re: RE: Re: The Iran War

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JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
We promised South Vietnam - over and over and over that we would protect them from the North (for better or worse). Our Ambassador in Saigon, literally days before the city fell in April 1975 was assuring the South Vietnamese that our government would not turn its back on the them.

I’m sure you’ll parse this as not counting because there was no “formal” agreement, but I would remind you that the JCPOA was also a nonbinding, informal agreement.

Would you like more examples of American foreign policy fecklessness?
Yes because I do not consider that an example of what I'm talking about. Iran is a "foe." We and our allies made an agreement with that foe. The foe agreed to do certain things and we agreed to do certain things. By all accounts the foe generally lived up to its end of the bargain. Then we had a Presidential election, a new President took office, and we reneged on our end of the bargain.

BTW I do not agree with what we did with Vietnam. There's a whole big deal there where the US won a resounding victory in repelling the Tet Offensive and it was somehow translated into a defeat. I can remember reading an account by a North Vietnamese general who said the North was about to give up because they got their ass kicked then they saw the cultural reaction in the US and realized they could exploit it.

But I don't think any of that relates to what I'm talking about with the Iran deal. We very publicly made an agreement with an adversary. The adversary lived up to its end of the bargain. We did not.
When you say, "we and our allies". Who exactly are you referring to as we? Obama? Congress? The American people?
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Re: RE: Re: The Iran War

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Yes because I do not consider that an example of what I'm talking about. Iran is a "foe." We and our allies made an agreement with that foe. The foe agreed to do certain things and we agreed to do certain things. By all accounts the foe generally lived up to its end of the bargain. Then we had a Presidential election, a new President took office, and we reneged on our end of the bargain.

BTW I do not agree with what we did with Vietnam. There's a whole big deal there where the US won a resounding victory in repelling the Tet Offensive and it was somehow translated into a defeat. I can remember reading an account by a North Vietnamese general who said the North was about to give up because they got their ass kicked then they saw the cultural reaction in the US and realized they could exploit it.

But I don't think any of that relates to what I'm talking about with the Iran deal. We very publicly made an agreement with an adversary. The adversary lived up to its end of the bargain. We did not.
When you say, "we and our allies". Who exactly are you referring to as we? Obama? Congress? The American people?
I think we should honor agreements and avoid war when possible. But that’s just me.
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Re: RE: Re: The Iran War

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:When you say, "we and our allies". Who exactly are you referring to as we? Obama? Congress? The American people?
I think we should honor agreements and avoid war when possible. But that’s just me.
Most international agreements these days are either sole executive agreements or agreements based on prior Congressional authorization that may have remote relevance to the actual subject matter of the agreement. Very few are Article II treaties that require Senate ratification. It’s part of the shift of power to the Executive Branch. I wrote a term paper on this last term, using the JCPOA as a case study. Want a copy?
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Re: RE: Re: The Iran War

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
I think we should honor agreements and avoid war when possible. But that’s just me.
Most international agreements these days are either sole executive agreements or agreements based on prior Congressional authorization that may have remote relevance to the actual subject matter of the agreement. Very few are Article II treaties that require Senate ratification. It’s part of the shift of power to the Executive Branch. I wrote a term paper on this last term, using the JCPOA as a case study. Want a copy?
Sure!
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Re: RE: Re: The Iran War

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

CitadelGrad wrote:Is it strange or predictable that the Dems,media and Iran all seem a little disappointed that Trump didn't retaliate?
No because the Democrats are working with Iran, even the blind can see that.

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Re: RE: Re: The Iran War

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kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
Most international agreements these days are either sole executive agreements or agreements based on prior Congressional authorization that may have remote relevance to the actual subject matter of the agreement. Very few are Article II treaties that require Senate ratification. It’s part of the shift of power to the Executive Branch. I wrote a term paper on this last term, using the JCPOA as a case study. Want a copy?
Sure!
PM me your e-mail address, and I’ll send it to you.
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Re: The Iran War

Post by Chizzang »

Trump 2 year ago: "Sanctions on Iran don't work"
Yesterday goes ahead with new sanctions

:lol:

Trump was pretty pretty good at heckling from the sidelines
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Re: The Iran War

Post by CitadelGrad »

Chizzang wrote:Trump 2 year ago: "Sanctions on Iran don't work"
Yesterday goes ahead with new sanctions

:lol:

Trump was pretty pretty good at heckling from the sidelines
Obama's Iran policy deserved heckling.
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