Educationism

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Educationism

Post by kalm »

I think Hanauer nails it here. Average Americans are more educated and more productive than ever but the wealth gap increases. Education isn't the problem, consolidated wealth and power is. Talk about wealth redistribution...

I'll be curious to see Ganny's and AZ's take on this.
For all the genuine flaws of the American education system, the nation still has many high-achieving public-school districts. Nearly all of them are united by a thriving community of economically secure middle-class families with sufficient political power to demand great schools, the time and resources to participate in those schools, and the tax money to amply fund them. In short, great public schools are the product of a thriving middle class, not the other way around. Pay people enough to afford dignified middle-class lives, and high-quality public schools will follow. But allow economic inequality to grow, and educational inequality will inevitably grow with it.

By distracting us from these truths, educationism is part of the problem.

whenever i talk with my wealthy friends about the dangers of rising economic inequality, those who don’t stare down at their shoes invariably push back with something about the woeful state of our public schools. This belief is so entrenched among the philanthropic elite that of America’s 50 largest family foundations—a clique that manages $144 billion in tax-exempt charitable assets—40 declare education as a key issue. Only one mentions anything about the plight of working people, economic inequality, or wages. And because the richest Americans are so politically powerful, the consequences of their beliefs go far beyond philanthropy.

A major theme in the educationist narrative involves the “skills gap”—the notion that decades of wage stagnation are largely a consequence of workers not having the education and skills to fill new high-wage jobs. If we improve our public schools, the thinking goes, and we increase the percentage of students attaining higher levels of education, particularly in the STEM subjects—science, technology, engineering, and math—the skills gap will shrink, wages will rise, and income inequality will fall.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... vqQ4nWAmDE
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Re: Educationism

Post by CAA Flagship »

Meh. It's not one thing. It's many things.
For example, every company's wage/employee distribution is shaped like a pyramid. Today you have less companies, hence, less pyramids. US stock exchanges have less than half the number of companies today than in 1997. That reduces the number of CEOs, COOs, CFOs, VPs, Directors, Managers, Supervisors, etc.

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Re: Educationism

Post by Chizzang »

kalm wrote:I think Hanauer nails it here. Average Americans are more educated and more productive than ever but the wealth gap increases. Education isn't the problem, consolidated wealth and power is. Talk about wealth redistribution...

I'll be curious to see Ganny's and AZ's take on this.
1) Bemoaning a rigged system while residing at the middle or bottom of that system isn't "news"
2) We've developed a financial culture where the middle actively hates the bottom
3) and have fine tuned this financial culture giving the middle the assigned job of also defending the top

and
everybody follows their instructions perfectly

:geek:

In any other financial culture on earth a three time bankrupted fraudster would be in jail
but in our system he is assigned the seat of President and lauded for his ploys and trickery
and overwhelmingly supported by the poorest participants

ponder the genius of that design !
and when he enriches his friends it is advertised as "best for everybody"
and there is no evidence that supports that claim
Last edited by Chizzang on Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Educationism

Post by kalm »

Chizzang wrote:
kalm wrote:I think Hanauer nails it here. Average Americans are more educated and more productive than ever but the wealth gap increases. Education isn't the problem, consolidated wealth and power is. Talk about wealth redistribution...

I'll be curious to see Ganny's and AZ's take on this.
1) Bemoaning a rigged system while residing at the middle or bottom of that system isn't "news"
2) We've developed a financial culture where the middle actively hates the bottom
3) and have fine tuned this financial culture giving the middle the assigned job of also defending the top

and
everybody follows their instructions perfectly

:geek:

In any other financial culture on earth a three time bankrupted fraudster would be in jail
but in our system he is assigned the seat of President and lauded for his ploys and trickery
and overwhelmingly supported by the poorest participants

ponder the genius of that design !
Well said.
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Re: Educationism

Post by GannonFan »

We don't have, and never have, had the goal of income equality. Is that something we really want anyway? Income inequality will always increase when the economy increases. If everybody's 5% richer than before, simple math tells you that 5% for the lower income guy is less than 5% for the upper income guy. The economy got better (which everyone agrees is good) but the income inequality got greater (which some people will wail is bad, even though everyone is richer). The only time that we've been able to successfully shrink the income inequality gap is during the Great Depression. So again, do we really want a goal to be income equality? I think we can go after the other stuff that people really want (i.e. equal accountability for people under the law regardless of income and a government that isn't beholden to people of higher income) without conflating the issue with the red herring that is income inequality.
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Re: Educationism

Post by GannonFan »

Oh, btw, just because we're more "educated" doesn't mean we're any smarter or better at our jobs. We've had thread after thread bemoaning the inflation of bachelor's degrees in useless fields of study.
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Re: Educationism

Post by AZGrizFan »

GannonFan wrote:We don't have, and never have, had the goal of income equality. Is that something we really want anyway? Income inequality will always increase when the economy increases. If everybody's 5% richer than before, simple math tells you that 5% for the lower income guy is less than 5% for the upper income guy. The economy got better (which everyone agrees is good) but the income inequality got greater (which some people will wail is bad, even though everyone is richer). The only time that we've been able to successfully shrink the income inequality gap is during the Great Depression. So again, do we really want a goal to be income equality? I think we can go after the other stuff that people really want (i.e. equal accountability for people under the law regardless of income and a government that isn't beholden to people of higher income) without conflating the issue with the red herring that is income inequality.
Careful. That confuses chizzy. :dunce: :dunce: :kisswink:
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Re: Educationism

Post by AZGrizFan »

Here's my take: If you're worth it, you'll get paid. Make yourself worth it. Are there exceptions to that rule? Certainly. But there's also exceptions in reverse (see about 75% of professional athletes and their pay scales).

I have approximately 40 people who work directly under me with varying degrees of responsibility. The lowest paid one (accounting clerk) makes well over $50,000 per year--with very little experience and simply holding a degree in accounting. The highest paid (Senior VP) makes over $300,000--of course he has 25+ years experience, an advanced degree and is a CPA. Make yourself worth it. Odds are, you'll get paid. The fact that it's not a perfect science doesn't make the system "rigged".

And stating that the "wealth gap continues to increase" is disingenuous. The middle class is shrinking because the Upper Class is GROWING. Instead of a three class system, we're developing into a two class system. That may not be a good thing, but it's not like wealth is being hoarded by fewer and fewer people.
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Re: Educationism

Post by Ivytalk »

I read the whole thing. Hanauer’s work is all of a piece with Warren Buffett and a few other bleeding heart billionaires: I’m richer than God, so please tax me more so I can help the little people and feel better about myself. Well, I had a successful career, and I have a nice nest egg, but I’m damned if I want some idiot like Liz Warren imposing a “wealth tax” to “level the playing field” at my (and my heirs’) expense. We give a shytload more money to charity than the Obamas and the Bidens combined. And that’s all I’m going to say about that.
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Re: Educationism

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ivytalk wrote:I read the whole thing. Hanauer’s work is all of a piece with Warren Buffett and a few other bleeding heart billionaires: I’m richer than God, so please tax me more so I can help the little people and feel better about myself. Well, I had a successful career, and I have a nice nest egg, but I’m damned if I want some idiot like Liz Warren imposing a “wealth tax” to “level the playing field” at my (and my heirs’) expense. We give a shytload more money to charity than the Obamas and the Bidens combined. And that’s all I’m going to say about that.
:nod: :nod: :nod:
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Re: Educationism

Post by Chizzang »

AZGrizFan wrote:
GannonFan wrote:We don't have, and never have, had the goal of income equality. Is that something we really want anyway? Income inequality will always increase when the economy increases. If everybody's 5% richer than before, simple math tells you that 5% for the lower income guy is less than 5% for the upper income guy. The economy got better (which everyone agrees is good) but the income inequality got greater (which some people will wail is bad, even though everyone is richer). The only time that we've been able to successfully shrink the income inequality gap is during the Great Depression. So again, do we really want a goal to be income equality? I think we can go after the other stuff that people really want (i.e. equal accountability for people under the law regardless of income and a government that isn't beholden to people of higher income) without conflating the issue with the red herring that is income inequality.
Careful. That confuses chizzy. :dunce: :dunce: :kisswink:
:lol:
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Re: Educationism

Post by Chizzang »

Ivytalk wrote:I read the whole thing. Hanauer’s work is all of a piece with Warren Buffett and a few other bleeding heart billionaires: I’m richer than God, so please tax me more so I can help the little people and feel better about myself. Well, I had a successful career, and I have a nice nest egg, but I’m damned if I want some idiot like Liz Warren imposing a “wealth tax” to “level the playing field” at my (and my heirs’) expense. We give a shytload more money to charity than the Obamas and the Bidens combined. And that’s all I’m going to say about that.
Right on queue...
AZ and Ivy acting like billionaires in the cross hairs
I got news for you two - you ain't who anybody is after regarding wealth redistribution
not even close, so stop flattering yourselves

:lol:

But please act out step 2) and 3) as directed above
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Re: Educationism

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Ivytalk wrote:I read the whole thing. Hanauer’s work is all of a piece with Warren Buffett and a few other bleeding heart billionaires: I’m richer than God, so please tax me more so I can help the little people and feel better about myself. Well, I had a successful career, and I have a nice nest egg, but I’m damned if I want some idiot like Liz Warren imposing a “wealth tax” to “level the playing field” at my (and my heirs’) expense. We give a shytload more money to charity than the Obamas and the Bidens combined. And that’s all I’m going to say about that.
You're not setting the bar very high by including the Bidens. :lol:
All my posts are satire.

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Re: Educationism

Post by Ivytalk »

Chizzang wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:I read the whole thing. Hanauer’s work is all of a piece with Warren Buffett and a few other bleeding heart billionaires: I’m richer than God, so please tax me more so I can help the little people and feel better about myself. Well, I had a successful career, and I have a nice nest egg, but I’m damned if I want some idiot like Liz Warren imposing a “wealth tax” to “level the playing field” at my (and my heirs’) expense. We give a shytload more money to charity than the Obamas and the Bidens combined. And that’s all I’m going to say about that.
Right on queue...
AZ and Ivy acting like billionaires in the cross hairs
I got news for you two - you ain't who anybody is after regarding wealth redistribution
not even close, so stop flattering yourselves

:lol:

But please act out step 2) and 3) as directed above
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Re: Educationism

Post by CAA Flagship »

Ivytalk wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Right on queue...
AZ and Ivy acting like billionaires in the cross hairs
I got news for you two - you ain't who anybody is after regarding wealth redistribution
not even close, so stop flattering yourselves

:lol:

But please act out step 2) and 3) as directed above
I guess that’s right, Chizzang. They’re coming after you. You’re a veritable new-age sociologist. Why don’t you write a book?
Chizz has time for a new book, now that he finalized this book:

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Re: Educationism

Post by Chizzang »

Ivytalk wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Right on queue...
AZ and Ivy acting like billionaires in the cross hairs
I got news for you two - you ain't who anybody is after regarding wealth redistribution
not even close, so stop flattering yourselves

:lol:

But please act out step 2) and 3) as directed above
I guess that’s right, Chizzang. They’re coming after you. You’re a veritable new-age sociologist. Why don’t you write a book?
They aren't after me either...
Anybody below the 99% percentile can relax

:geek:

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Re: Educationism

Post by AZGrizFan »

Chizzang wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:I read the whole thing. Hanauer’s work is all of a piece with Warren Buffett and a few other bleeding heart billionaires: I’m richer than God, so please tax me more so I can help the little people and feel better about myself. Well, I had a successful career, and I have a nice nest egg, but I’m damned if I want some idiot like Liz Warren imposing a “wealth tax” to “level the playing field” at my (and my heirs’) expense. We give a shytload more money to charity than the Obamas and the Bidens combined. And that’s all I’m going to say about that.
Right on queue...
AZ and Ivy acting like billionaires in the cross hairs
I got news for you two - you ain't who anybody is after regarding wealth redistribution
not even close, so stop flattering yourselves

:lol:

But please act out step 2) and 3) as directed above
I'm not suggesting we are. Just commenting on the article, jagoff. :roll: :roll:
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Re: Educationism

Post by Chizzang »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Right on queue...
AZ and Ivy acting like billionaires in the cross hairs
I got news for you two - you ain't who anybody is after regarding wealth redistribution
not even close, so stop flattering yourselves

:lol:

But please act out step 2) and 3) as directed above
I'm not suggesting we are. Just commenting on the article, jagoff. :roll: :roll:
BTW the 22,000 sq ft house dude north of San Antonio qualifies...

:lol:

but it's neat-o how you did what I said in my example above on steps 2) and 3)
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Re: Educationism

Post by 89Hen »

Chizzang wrote:you ain't who anybody is after regarding wealth redistribution
not even close, so stop flattering yourselves
Bullshit Cleets.
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Re: Educationism

Post by Chizzang »

89Hen wrote:
Chizzang wrote:you ain't who anybody is after regarding wealth redistribution
not even close, so stop flattering yourselves
Bullshit Cleets.
Well I call bullsh!t on your bullsh!t

:lol:
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Re: Educationism

Post by 89Hen »

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Re: RE: Re: Educationism

Post by UNI88 »

Chizzang wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: I guess that’s right, Chizzang. They’re coming after you. You’re a veritable new-age sociologist. Why don’t you write a book?
They aren't after me either...
Anybody below the 99% percentile can relax

:geek:

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I don't know. I don't think they can get enough revenue from the 1%ers to pay for everything that Bernie and AOC want to do. Those two and others dream about a return to pre-Reagan tax rates (top marginal rate of 70%) to fund their socialist utopia and seaside dachas.

Comparing the income gap in the US to other countries is fine but doesn't give a complete picture. You also need to compare average incomes for say the bottom 10%. I'm guessing that being poor in the US isn't that bad.

And I'm on record as believing that CEOs in general are paid too much and focus on short term market focused results rather than building great companies.

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Re: RE: Re: Educationism

Post by HI54UNI »

UNI88 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
They aren't after me either...
Anybody below the 99% percentile can relax

:geek:

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I don't know. I don't think they can get enough revenue from the 1%ers to pay for everything that Bernie and AOC want to do. Those two and others dream about a return to pre-Reagan tax rates (top marginal rate of 70%) to fund their socialist utopia and seaside dachas.


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:nod:

I've said this before but the Forbes list of 400 richest Americans has a combined worth at $2.9 trillion as of last fall. The deficit this year is something like $800 billion. So at current spending levels if we take everything the 400 richest have we can balance the budget for about 3.6 years. Then all that money is gone and we have to start coming at the next 400 richest which won't be anything like the first 400. So for anyone to say that aren't coming after the middle class is naive. And this doesn't even count the trillions of new spending being suggested by the all the idiots running for President.
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Re: Educationism

Post by 89Hen »

Chizzang wrote:
89Hen wrote: Bullshit Cleets.
Well I call bullsh!t on your bullsh!t

:lol:
You don't think there are plenty in the wealth redistribution crowd that don't want to raise taxes on families making over $200-250K? That aint even close to "rich" around here.
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Re: RE: Re: Educationism

Post by Ivytalk »

UNI88 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
They aren't after me either...
Anybody below the 99% percentile can relax

:geek:

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I don't know. I don't think they can get enough revenue from the 1%ers to pay for everything that Bernie and AOC want to do. Those two and others dream about a return to pre-Reagan tax rates (top marginal rate of 70%) to fund their socialist utopia and seaside dachas.

Comparing the income gap in the US to other countries is fine but doesn't give a complete picture. You also need to compare average incomes for say the bottom 10%. I'm guessing that being poor in the US isn't that bad.

And I'm on record as believing that CEOs in general are paid too much and focus on short term market focused results rather than building great companies.

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And I’d just add to 88’s excellent points about CEOs: they should all have mucho “skin in the game” equity-wise, so they don’t prosper if their companies don’t. Compensate with stock instead of cash. And by that I mean common stock, not fancy super-voting classes of shares a la Zuckerberg that give you control but no equity exposure.
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