Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

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Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Pwns » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:32 pm

So I've been following the punditry and the congressional hearings on slavery reparations and I thought I'd bring this up since there's the common refrain now that it's not about writing checks to any individuals but lifting black people as a whole up.

Why do we just assume the wealth gap between whites and blacks exists because of slavery?

You've got wealth gaps between whites and blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Ashkenazi jews. How can you possibly know the black-white gap is due to slavery, especially with decades of social programs and affirmative action?
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby ∞∞∞ » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:50 pm

Pwns wrote:So I've been following the punditry and the congressional hearings on slavery reparations and I thought I'd bring this up since there's the common refrain now that it's not about writing checks to any individuals but lifting black people as a whole up.

Why do we just assume the wealth gap between whites and blacks exists because of slavery?

You've got wealth gaps between whites and blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Ashkenazi jews. How can you possibly know the black-white gap is due to slavery, especially with decades of social programs and affirmative action?

It's not simply an issue of slavery. Centuries of systemic racism put black families behind in terms of the inter-generational transfer of wealth. Racist banking/housing/land laws and the lack of work opportunities are examples of how black families were never given the chance to close the gap. They also had to contend with intimidation and violence (like the destruction of the wealthiest black neighborhood in America).

And that lack of inter-generational-wealth creates a domino effect: live in poorer neighborhoods, worse educational opportunities, worse job-prospects, etc.

Slavery began the wealth gap, but everything afterwards has been more instrumental in its creation.

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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby CID1990 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:18 pm

Anyone who thinks logically knows that reparations aren’t going to happen


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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby AZGrizFan » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:02 pm

CID1990 wrote:Anyone who thinks logically knows that reparations aren’t going to happen


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It’s pandering for the black vote. Plain and simple.

Just like the “go back and allow gays to amended tax returns” platform Warren just announced....reparations for gays. Pandering for votes.
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby TheDancinMonarch » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:59 pm

There is a huge wage differential between those who are smart and work hard and those who aren't and don't. And race, age, sex or any other variable is meaningless.
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:13 pm

Blacks have been getting reparations for 200 years. Welfare has paved the way for them to be successful, even in the country they hate so much.

If anyone gets reparations it should be the people paying for the welfare queens.



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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby SDHornet » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:23 am

∞∞∞ wrote:
Pwns wrote:So I've been following the punditry and the congressional hearings on slavery reparations and I thought I'd bring this up since there's the common refrain now that it's not about writing checks to any individuals but lifting black people as a whole up.

Why do we just assume the wealth gap between whites and blacks exists because of slavery?

You've got wealth gaps between whites and blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Ashkenazi jews. How can you possibly know the black-white gap is due to slavery, especially with decades of social programs and affirmative action?

It's not simply an issue of slavery. Centuries of systemic racism put black families behind in terms of the inter-generational transfer of wealth. Racist banking/housing/land laws and the lack of work opportunities are examples of how black families were never given the chance to close the gap. They also had to contend with intimidation and violence (like the destruction of the wealthiest black neighborhood in America).

And that lack of inter-generational-wealth creates a domino effect: live in poorer neighborhoods, worse educational opportunities, worse job-prospects, etc.

Slavery began the wealth gap, but everything afterwards has been more instrumental in its creation.

So not going to point out which political party has largely been in control of black urban areas for the last 50+ years?

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Re: RE: Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby UNI88 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:29 am

∞∞∞ wrote:
Pwns wrote:So I've been following the punditry and the congressional hearings on slavery reparations and I thought I'd bring this up since there's the common refrain now that it's not about writing checks to any individuals but lifting black people as a whole up.

Why do we just assume the wealth gap between whites and blacks exists because of slavery?

You've got wealth gaps between whites and blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Ashkenazi jews. How can you possibly know the black-white gap is due to slavery, especially with decades of social programs and affirmative action?

It's not simply an issue of slavery. Centuries of systemic racism put black families behind in terms of the inter-generational transfer of wealth. Racist banking/housing/land laws and the lack of work opportunities are examples of how black families were never given the chance to close the gap. They also had to contend with intimidation and violence (like the destruction of the wealthiest black neighborhood in America).

And that lack of inter-generational-wealth creates a domino effect: live in poorer neighborhoods, worse educational opportunities, worse job-prospects, etc.

Slavery began the wealth gap, but everything afterwards has been more instrumental in its creation.


So should the solution be to pay raparations? Or should we be striving to fix the underlying causes like education, childcare, job-training and hope?

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Re: RE: Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Ivytalk » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:40 pm

UNI88 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:It's not simply an issue of slavery. Centuries of systemic racism put black families behind in terms of the inter-generational transfer of wealth. Racist banking/housing/land laws and the lack of work opportunities are examples of how black families were never given the chance to close the gap. They also had to contend with intimidation and violence (like the destruction of the wealthiest black neighborhood in America).

And that lack of inter-generational-wealth creates a domino effect: live in poorer neighborhoods, worse educational opportunities, worse job-prospects, etc.

Slavery began the wealth gap, but everything afterwards has been more instrumental in its creation.


So should the solution be to pay raparations? Or should we be striving to fix the underlying causes like education, childcare, job-training and hope?

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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby 89Hen » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:39 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
Pwns wrote:So I've been following the punditry and the congressional hearings on slavery reparations and I thought I'd bring this up since there's the common refrain now that it's not about writing checks to any individuals but lifting black people as a whole up.

Why do we just assume the wealth gap between whites and blacks exists because of slavery?

You've got wealth gaps between whites and blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Ashkenazi jews. How can you possibly know the black-white gap is due to slavery, especially with decades of social programs and affirmative action?

It's not simply an issue of slavery. Centuries of systemic racism put black families behind in terms of the inter-generational transfer of wealth. Racist banking/housing/land laws and the lack of work opportunities are examples of how black families were never given the chance to close the gap. They also had to contend with intimidation and violence (like the destruction of the wealthiest black neighborhood in America).

And that lack of inter-generational-wealth creates a domino effect: live in poorer neighborhoods, worse educational opportunities, worse job-prospects, etc.

Slavery began the wealth gap, but everything afterwards has been more instrumental in its creation.

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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Ibanez » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:25 pm

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Blacks have been getting reparations for 200 years. Welfare has paved the way for them to be successful, even in the country they hate so much.

If anyone gets reparations it should be the people paying for the welfare queens.



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They were getting reparations since the early 1800s?


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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:57 pm

Ibanez wrote:
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Blacks have been getting reparations for 200 years. Welfare has paved the way for them to be successful, even in the country they hate so much.

If anyone gets reparations it should be the people paying for the welfare queens.



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They were getting reparations since the early 1800s?


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Yes back then they all had jobs, (we had to force them to work) and they still complained until well...........next week and the month after that. They have always had things given to them and they still cry like little bitches.

Its **** embarrassing
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:16 pm

Same old same old with respect to the reparations question. To me, in order to justify reparations, one would have to argue that the people to be compensated are worse off as a result of slavery. And the only way one can argue that the people involved are worse off as a result of slavery is to argue that they'd be better off if they did not exist.

Reparations is, or should be, a non starter.
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Ivytalk » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:25 am

JohnStOnge wrote:And the only way one can argue that the people involved are worse off as a result of slavery is to argue that they'd be better off if they did not exist.

Run that one by me again.
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby CID1990 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:26 am

Ivytalk wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:And the only way one can argue that the people involved are worse off as a result of slavery is to argue that they'd be better off if they did not exist.

Run that one by me again.


Yeah he lost me on that one too

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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:52 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:And the only way one can argue that the people involved are worse off as a result of slavery is to argue that they'd be better off if they did not exist.

Run that one by me again.


Each of us is the result of a unique set of ancestors. Change one thing in history to change the chain that led to us and we would not exist.

Suppose slavery had never been practiced. Black Africans would have lived and died in their home areas, interbred with people nearby, etc. Because of slavery, that did not happen. People were removed from their homes and interbred with people they never would have met had slavery never been practiced. Then as time and generations went on the distance between what would have happened had slavery never been practiced and what did happen increased.

If you could go back in time and do something to create a situation whereby black Africans were never taken from Africa and shipped to America as slaves, it is extremely likely that not a single individual who is a descendant of Black American slaves would exist today. A different set of individuals based on chains of ancestry resulting from a scenario in which slavery was never practiced would exist.
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby CID1990 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:10 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Run that one by me again.


Each of us is the result of a unique set of ancestors. Change one thing in history to change the chain that led to us and we would not exist.

Suppose slavery had never been practiced. Black Africans would have lived and died in their home areas, interbred with people nearby, etc. Because of slavery, that did not happen. People were removed from their homes and interbred with people they never would have met had slavery never been practiced. Then as time and generations went on the distance between what would have happened had slavery never been practiced and what did happen increased.

If you could go back in time and do something to create a situation whereby black Africans were never taken from Africa and shipped to America as slaves, it is extremely likely that not a single individual who is a descendant of Black American slaves would exist today. A different set of individuals based on chains of ancestry resulting from a scenario in which slavery was never practiced would exist.


Let’s just file this away in the WELL DUH section


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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Chizzang » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:28 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Run that one by me again.


Each of us is the result of a unique set of ancestors. Change one thing in history to change the chain that led to us and we would not exist.

Suppose slavery had never been practiced. Black Africans would have lived and died in their home areas, interbred with people nearby, etc. Because of slavery, that did not happen. People were removed from their homes and interbred with people they never would have met had slavery never been practiced. Then as time and generations went on the distance between what would have happened had slavery never been practiced and what did happen increased.

If you could go back in time and do something to create a situation whereby black Africans were never taken from Africa and shipped to America as slaves, it is extremely likely that not a single individual who is a descendant of Black American slaves would exist today. A different set of individuals based on chains of ancestry resulting from a scenario in which slavery was never practiced would exist.


John,
To call all of that ^ above "extraneous" might be the nicest way to put it

But it makes me want to ask you:
Do you really think anybody on this forum is confused about how time works..?
You might as well have started with "if we had a time machine"

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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby JohnStOnge » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:03 am

Chizzang wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Each of us is the result of a unique set of ancestors. Change one thing in history to change the chain that led to us and we would not exist.

Suppose slavery had never been practiced. Black Africans would have lived and died in their home areas, interbred with people nearby, etc. Because of slavery, that did not happen. People were removed from their homes and interbred with people they never would have met had slavery never been practiced. Then as time and generations went on the distance between what would have happened had slavery never been practiced and what did happen increased.

If you could go back in time and do something to create a situation whereby black Africans were never taken from Africa and shipped to America as slaves, it is extremely likely that not a single individual who is a descendant of Black American slaves would exist today. A different set of individuals based on chains of ancestry resulting from a scenario in which slavery was never practiced would exist.


John,
To call all of that ^ above "extraneous" might be the nicest way to put it

But it makes me want to ask you:
Do you really think anybody on this forum is confused about how time works..?
You might as well have started with "if we had a time machine"

:lol:


Note that at first I just said that today's descendants of slaves would not exist. Then a couple of people said I lost them. Thus the explanation.

And it's not extraneous. How can you say that someone is worse off by virtue of slavery having been practiced when slavery having been practiced is the reason for their existence? You have to argue that they would have been better off if they had never been born.

It would be different if we were dealing with someone who was living in an African village then abducted then freed during his or her lifetime. Then the idea of compensating them for what you did to them makes sense. One could clearly make the case that their being abducted into slavery made them worse off.

Today's descendants of Black African slaves generally benefitted from slavery. They are people who would not otherwise have come into existence living, on averge, lives that are far more materially comfortable than the lives of most of Earth's human inhabitants. In fact they live lives that are probably, on average, more materially comfortable than the lives of the alternative "slavery never practiced" scenario descendants of people abducted into slavery would be at this time.
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby JohnStOnge » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:15 am

BTW I think it really is interesting to think about how unlikely we all are as individuals. It's not just a set of ancestors. There's also the timing of sexual contacts. An estimated 20 to 100 million sperm are in each ejaculation. Each of us is the product of one moment when one sperm cell made it into one egg cell under one specific set of circumstances. If the ejaculation had occurred one second later than it in association with slightly different positioning a different sperm cell likely would have made it into the egg.

Yes I know thinking about things like that doesn't interest most people but I do think about things like that. Probability. And it makes me really grateful to be alive. There are billions of us but each of us is a 1 in billions, trillions, or something like that occurrence as an individual.
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Ivytalk » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:19 am

JohnStOnge wrote:BTW I think it really is interesting to think about how unlikely we all are as individuals. It's not just a set of ancestors. There's also the timing of sexual contacts. An estimated 20 to 100 million sperm are in each ejaculation. Each of us is the product of one moment when one sperm cell made it into one egg cell under one specific set of circumstances. If the ejaculation had occurred one second later than it in association with slightly different positioning a different sperm cell likely would have made it into the egg.

Yes I know thinking about things like that doesn't interest most people but I do think about things like that. Probability. And it makes me really grateful to be alive. There are billions of us but each of us is a 1 in billions, trillions, or something like that occurrence as an individual.

:o

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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Chizzang » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:33 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:Yes I know thinking about things like that doesn't interest most people but I do think about things like that. Probability. And it makes me really grateful to be alive. There are billions of us but each of us is a 1 in billions, trillions, or something like that occurrence as an individual.


John,
this perspective assumes you would be "aware" that you did not exist...
Most existentialist's would poo poo your point as hyper myopic delusion

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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Col Hogan » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:55 pm

Forget black reparations....Elizabeth Warren has just come out with a gay reparations plan...

If the Dems offer enough money to enough different groups, they will win...even if they never will pay a penny of their promises...
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Chizzang » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:19 pm

Col Hogan wrote:Forget black reparations....Elizabeth Warren has just come out with a gay reparations plan...

If the Dems offer enough money to enough different groups, they will win...even if they never will pay a penny of their promises...


Oh I don't know...
Private golf courses effectively receive a public subsidy
In Los Angeles county (for example) $89.8 million in public subsidies
without granting the public access to the land

That's seems like a type of reparations for rich folks that don't want poor folks around

:lol:
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Re: Wealth gaps between different ethnic groups

Postby Col Hogan » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:47 pm

Chizzang wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:Forget black reparations....Elizabeth Warren has just come out with a gay reparations plan...

If the Dems offer enough money to enough different groups, they will win...even if they never will pay a penny of their promises...


Oh I don't know...
Private golf courses effectively receive a public subsidy
In Los Angeles county (for example) $89.8 million in public subsidies
without granting the public access to the land

That's seems like a type of reparations for rich folks that don't want poor folks around

:lol:


Got any details on that claim...and any other examples other than LA?

Call me skeptical...
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