Bolton Out

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Re: Bolton Out

Postby UNI88 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:37 pm

The bottom line no matter how much anyone wants to manufacture outrage is that the world is a safer place with Bolton removed from a position of influence.

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Re: Bolton Out

Postby Ivytalk » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:29 pm

UNI88 wrote:The bottom line no matter how much anyone wants to manufacture outrage is that the world is a safer place with Bolton removed from a position of flatulence.

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Re: Bolton Out

Postby UNI88 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:33 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
UNI88 wrote:The bottom line no matter how much anyone wants to manufacture outrage is that the world is a safer place with Bolton removed from a position of flatulence.

FYP


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Re: Bolton Out

Postby houndawg » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:50 pm

css75 wrote:
houndawg wrote:
Try to fathom the caliber of the wackjobs you need to surround yourself with to make Bolton look like the reasonable one.


When did you become a Bolton fan?


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Re: Bolton Out

Postby JohnStOnge » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:17 pm

CID1990 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:I don’t think he does either - but through his words and actions he has demonstrated that he is a noninterventionist, and he has also demonstrated that he is willing to make security or trade deals on terms favorable to the US, optics be damned (Taliban at Camp David)


Do you think what he was working on with the Taliban involved terms favorable to the US? If so, elaborate.
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby CID1990 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:53 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:


Do you think what he was working on with the Taliban involved terms favorable to the US? If so, elaborate.


I have no idea what terms he was negotiating, John. I presume the terms involve us not being in Afghanistan. That is a term that is favorable to the US.
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby JohnStOnge » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:57 pm

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Do you think what he was working on with the Taliban involved terms favorable to the US? If so, elaborate.


I have no idea what terms he was negotiating, John. I presume the terms involve us not being in Afghanistan. That is a term that is favorable to the US.


Do you think the Taliban deposing the current Afghan government and taking over Afghanistan again so that things are basically as they were in August, 2001, there is favorable to US interest in the long term?
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby kalm » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:01 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I have no idea what terms he was negotiating, John. I presume the terms involve us not being in Afghanistan. That is a term that is favorable to the US.


Do you think the Taliban deposing the current Afghan government and taking over Afghanistan again so that things are basically as they were in August, 2001, there is favorable to US interest in the long term?


No but 1). The Taliban didn’t fly the planes and 2) Reagan seemed like them.
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby JoltinJoe » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:37 pm

The Taliban were easy to fight when they controlled all of Afghanistan. We deposed them in no time and inflicted massive casualties on them.

It was when those remaining went into hiding and disappeared into the civilian populations in their strongholds that the Taliban became a menace.

I think we should leave Afghanistan and let the Taliban take hold of the whole country. Once they're in charge again, we should blow them off the map again and take over. Then leave again, and let them take over. Repeat blow them off the map again and then leave.

Do this about 10 times and I'm pretty sure we'll have them completely decimated. :coffee:

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Re: Bolton Out

Postby SDHornet » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:13 pm

JoltinJoe wrote:The Taliban were easy to fight when they controlled all of Afghanistan. We deposed them in no time and inflicted massive casualties on them.

It was when those remaining went into hiding and disappeared into the civilian populations in their strongholds that the Taliban became a menace.

I think we should leave Afghanistan and let the Taliban take hold of the whole country. Once they're in charge again, we should blow them off the map again and take over. Then leave again, and let them take over. Repeat blow them off the map again and then leave.

Do this about 10 times and I'm pretty sure we'll have them completely decimated. :coffee:

Naw. Just cut them a deal that says:

"We'll leave forever and give you weapons so long as you use them against the chinks when they move in after we leave."

That should cover our bases. :coffee:

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Re: Bolton Out

Postby CID1990 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:18 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I have no idea what terms he was negotiating, John. I presume the terms involve us not being in Afghanistan. That is a term that is favorable to the US.


Do you think the Taliban deposing the current Afghan government and taking over Afghanistan again so that things are basically as they were in August, 2001, there is favorable to US interest in the long term?


Versus staying there forever because the Afghans won't stop it?

Yes, John. I think having no more US troops in Afghanistan is favorable to the US in the long term. We aren't willing to kill a million Afghans so all else is a waste of blood and treasure.

Any more stupid questions?
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby Chizzang » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:20 pm

There is no reasonable argument that includes the U.S. having troops in Afghanistan...
I agree with Joe - pull out and observe from a distance - respond accordingly over time

:nod:
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby CID1990 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:40 am

Chizzang wrote:There is no reasonable argument that includes the U.S. having troops in Afghanistan...
I agree with Joe - pull out and observe from a distance - respond accordingly over time

:nod:


Yes but Trump is negotiating the pullout
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby houndawg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:55 am

JoltinJoe wrote:The Taliban were easy to fight when they controlled all of Afghanistan. We deposed them in no time and inflicted massive casualties on them.

It was when those remaining went into hiding and disappeared into the civilian populations in their strongholds that the Taliban became a menace.

I think we should leave Afghanistan and let the Taliban take hold of the whole country. Once they're in charge again, we should blow them off the map again and take over. Then leave again, and let them take over. Repeat blow them off the map again and then leave.

Do this about 10 times and I'm pretty sure we'll have them completely decimated. :coffee:


That oughta be good for at least 30 years of job security.. :coffee:
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby houndawg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:58 am

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Do you think the Taliban deposing the current Afghan government and taking over Afghanistan again so that things are basically as they were in August, 2001, there is favorable to US interest in the long term?


Versus staying there forever because the Afghans won't stop it?

Yes, John. I think having no more US troops in Afghanistan is favorable to the US in the long term. We aren't willing to kill a million Afghans so all else is a waste of blood and treasure.

Any more stupid questions?


Have you already forgotten that the Taliban are "the equivalent of our founding fathers"? :ohno:


I forgot you were in diapers then, nevermind...
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby CID1990 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:16 am

houndawg wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Versus staying there forever because the Afghans won't stop it?

Yes, John. I think having no more US troops in Afghanistan is favorable to the US in the long term. We aren't willing to kill a million Afghans so all else is a waste of blood and treasure.

Any more stupid questions?


Have you already forgotten that the Taliban are "the equivalent of our founding fathers"? :ohno:


I forgot you were in diapers then, nevermind...


I was in diapers when Johnson was Prez

Go outside and count the airplanes as they fly over or something
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby GannonFan » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:32 am

Chizzang wrote:There is no reasonable argument that includes the U.S. having troops in Afghanistan...
I agree with Joe - pull out and observe from a distance - respond accordingly over time

:nod:


I agree, I don't see how Afghanistan is anything other than this. It's up to them to stop this cycle from happening over and over again but they don't seem capable of breaking that cycle. We'll pull out, and then in a few years the human rights depravity will be so great again that we'll have to go back in and clear it out again. People will criticize the US for doing nothing and then when we go in we'll be criticized for intervening. That's part of the cycle too.
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby AZGrizFan » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:36 am

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Do you think the Taliban deposing the current Afghan government and taking over Afghanistan again so that things are basically as they were in August, 2001, there is favorable to US interest in the long term?


Versus staying there forever because the Afghans won't stop it?

Yes, John. I think having no more US troops in Afghanistan is favorable to the US in the long term. We aren't willing to kill a million Afghans so all else is a waste of blood and treasure.

Any more stupid questions?


This. It's been the issue since Viet Nam.
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby Chizzang » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:14 am

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:There is no reasonable argument that includes the U.S. having troops in Afghanistan...
I agree with Joe - pull out and observe from a distance - respond accordingly over time

:nod:


Yes but Trump is negotiating the pullout


So it won't happen - even after he announces that it already happened..?
What's your point?

:geek:

Later at a Hate Rally he'll announce that he negotiated the pullout
(while we're still in Afghanistan)
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby CID1990 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:03 pm

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Yes but Trump is negotiating the pullout


So it won't happen - even after he announces that it already happened..?
What's your point?

:geek:

Later at a Hate Rally he'll announce that he negotiated the pullout
(while we're still in Afghanistan)


My point was facetious

Trump is negotiating the pullout, so naturally JSO and others have developed a problem with us pulling chocks and un-assing that shithole


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Re: Bolton Out

Postby JohnStOnge » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:39 pm

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Do you think the Taliban deposing the current Afghan government and taking over Afghanistan again so that things are basically as they were in August, 2001, there is favorable to US interest in the long term?


Versus staying there forever because the Afghans won't stop it?

Yes, John. I think having no more US troops in Afghanistan is favorable to the US in the long term. We aren't willing to kill a million Afghans so all else is a waste of blood and treasure.


So I take it you don't think having the Taliban in charge of Afghanistan so that they can create a safe haven for groups like the old Al-Qaeda is a threat to US interests?
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Bolton Out

Postby CID1990 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:45 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Versus staying there forever because the Afghans won't stop it?

Yes, John. I think having no more US troops in Afghanistan is favorable to the US in the long term. We aren't willing to kill a million Afghans so all else is a waste of blood and treasure.


So I take it you don't think having the Taliban in charge of Afghanistan so that they can create a safe haven for groups like the old Al-Qaeda is a threat to US interests?


NO JOHN I DON’T

even given your loaded question

We get it. You want us to expend blood and treasure there indefinitely

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Re: Bolton Out

Postby JohnStOnge » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:26 pm

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
So I take it you don't think having the Taliban in charge of Afghanistan so that they can create a safe haven for groups like the old Al-Qaeda is a threat to US interests?


NO JOHN I DON’T

even given your loaded question

We get it. You want us to expend blood and treasure there indefinitely



Ok then. We disagree on a key premise. I think that if we allow Afghanistan to return to what it was that will be a threat to us. You do not.

And BTW, I do think we need to be able to expend blood and treasure indefinitely in order to address the Islamist threat. I think we are dealing with an enemy that is willing to do that. I think that is we think in terms of needing to put time limits on what we do we put ourselves as a disadvantage because the enemy doesn't do that.
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Re: Bolton Out

Postby CID1990 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:30 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
NO JOHN I DON’T

even given your loaded question

We get it. You want us to expend blood and treasure there indefinitely



Ok then. We disagree on a key premise. I think that if we allow Afghanistan to return to what it was that will be a threat to us. You do not.

And BTW, I do think we need to be able to expend blood and treasure indefinitely in order to address the Islamist threat. I think we are dealing with an enemy that is willing to do that. I think that is we think in terms of needing to put time limits on what we do we put ourselves as a disadvantage because the enemy doesn't do that.


We do not need to be in Afghanistan to prevent it becoming a threat to us

Your opinion places you all by yourself on this one

Is us trying to pull out of there a critique of Trump or have you moved on now?


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Re: Bolton Out

Postby JohnStOnge » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:35 pm

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Ok then. We disagree on a key premise. I think that if we allow Afghanistan to return to what it was that will be a threat to us. You do not.

And BTW, I do think we need to be able to expend blood and treasure indefinitely in order to address the Islamist threat. I think we are dealing with an enemy that is willing to do that. I think that is we think in terms of needing to put time limits on what we do we put ourselves as a disadvantage because the enemy doesn't do that.


We do not need to be in Afghanistan to prevent it becoming a threat to us

Your opinion places you all by yourself on this one

Is us trying to pull out of there a critique of Trump or have you moved on now?


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I have always said that we need to be willing to persist in our conflict with the Islamists. They do not think in terms of years or time limits. I said the on this board long before Trump ran for office. The fact that we think in terms of needing to get out and get impatient is a weakness. Our enemies know that is our tendency. So they wait us out. They know that if they can just stay active we will quit.
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