Bolton Out

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Re: Bolton Out

Post by Ivytalk »

HI54UNI wrote:Image
:rofl:

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Re: Bolton Out

Post by dbackjon »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Five bucks says Bolton protested Trump inviting the Taliban to Camp David a little too forcefully. He would not have been happy about it.
That’s the current buzz around DC. Maybe Hannity will get Bolton to open up about it.

The good news is that Bolton is gone. The bad news is that Trump is on his own.
:nod: :nod:
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Re: Bolton Out

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mainejeff2 wrote:Trump can do no wrong! :lol: :lol: :lol:

:coffee:
You're finally on the Trump train!
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Re: Bolton Out

Post by houndawg »

CID1990 wrote:Five bucks says Bolton protested Trump inviting the Taliban to Camp David a little too forcefully. He would not have been happy about it.
Try to fathom the caliber of the wackjobs you need to surround yourself with to make Bolton look like the reasonable one.
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Re: Bolton Out

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Suddenly Bolton is the reasonable one. My how the worm has turned now that he's out on his ass.

You donks are nothing if not predictable.
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Re: Bolton Out

Post by dbackjon »

AZGrizFan wrote:Suddenly Bolton is the reasonable one. My how the worm has turned now that he's out on his ass.

You donks are nothing if not predictable.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

No. Bolton was not reasonable. But your fuhrer is capable of appointing someone far worse, and your GOP lackeys in the Senate will rubber stamp the insanity, as usual.\



You conks are nothing if not predictable
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Re: Bolton Out

Post by JohnStOnge »

Even before I swore off voting Republican due to the Republican Party nominating Trump I thought Bolton is a nut job. The fact that he ever got into ANY position of influence in ANY Administration is disconcerting.
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Re: Bolton Out

Post by AZGrizFan »

dbackjon wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:Suddenly Bolton is the reasonable one. My how the worm has turned now that he's out on his ass.

You donks are nothing if not predictable.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

No. Bolton was not reasonable. But your fuhrer is capable of appointing someone far worse, and your GOP lackeys in the Senate will rubber stamp the insanity, as usual.\



You conks are nothing if not predictable
So now you've got a crystal ball? You donks are nothing if not predictable.
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Re: Bolton Out

Post by CID1990 »

I’m hearing Bolton also protested when Trump contemplated lifting some Iran sanctions as an olive branch to get them to the table - that would make sense too

So basically, we have a neocon hawk who gets fired by a President who (through his own actions and statements) is in favor of nonintervention and also using the carrot on a stick to manipulate bad actors

and that neocon hawk is now being used as a yardstick for how wrong Trump is on foreign policy?

makes total sense


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Re: Bolton Out

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CID1990 wrote:I’m hearing Bolton also protested when Trump contemplated lifting some Iran sanctions as an olive branch to get them to the table - that would make sense too

So basically, we have a neocon hawk who gets fired by a President who (through his own actions and statements) is in favor of nonintervention and also using the carrot on a stick to manipulate bad actors

and that neocon hawk is now being used as a yardstick for how wrong Trump is on foreign policy?

makes total sense


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It does in the twisted, fucked up, convoluted Donk world where Orange Man Bad no matter WHAT he does... :lol: :lol:
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Re: Bolton Out

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CID1990 wrote:I’m hearing Bolton also protested when Trump contemplated lifting some Iran sanctions as an olive branch to get them to the table - that would make sense too

So basically, we have a neocon hawk who gets fired by a President who (through his own actions and statements) is in favor of nonintervention and also using the carrot on a stick to manipulate bad actors

and that neocon hawk is now being used as a yardstick for how wrong Trump is on foreign policy?

makes total sense


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The problem that I have with this analysis is that it presumes that Trump has the mental staying power/skill set “to manipulate bad actors” into some type of durable agreement. His instinct for a “deal” of any type is so evanescent-short term that nothing ever gets done. Exhibit A: The NorKors. Trump has no anchor to windward. Pompeo, at bottom, is a political hack who is using Trump for his own purposes.
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Re: Bolton Out

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:I’m hearing Bolton also protested when Trump contemplated lifting some Iran sanctions as an olive branch to get them to the table - that would make sense too

So basically, we have a neocon hawk who gets fired by a President who (through his own actions and statements) is in favor of nonintervention and also using the carrot on a stick to manipulate bad actors

and that neocon hawk is now being used as a yardstick for how wrong Trump is on foreign policy?

makes total sense


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The problem that I have with this analysis is that it presumes that Trump has the mental staying power/skill set “to manipulate bad actors” into some type of durable agreement. His instinct for a “deal” of any type is so evanescent-short term that nothing ever gets done. Exhibit A: The NorKors. Trump has no anchor to windward. Pompeo, at bottom, is a political hack who is using Trump for his own purposes.
I don’t think he does either - but through his words and actions he has demonstrated that he is a noninterventionist, and he has also demonstrated that he is willing to make security or trade deals on terms favorable to the US, optics be damned (Taliban at Camp David)

Whether he is a master deal maker or a charlatan is immaterial. Using John Bolton’s departure as some kind of a canary in the coal mine on Trump’s foreign policy is the height of hypocrisy for Trump’s opponents. It is truly an “Orange Man Bad” moment


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Re: Bolton Out

Post by SDHornet »

Ivytalk wrote:For now, one less warmonger.
This. It's a good thing this warmongering neocon is out. :clap:

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Re: Bolton Out

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HI54UNI wrote:Image
:lol:
:ohno:

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Re: Bolton Out

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CID1990 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: The problem that I have with this analysis is that it presumes that Trump has the mental staying power/skill set “to manipulate bad actors” into some type of durable agreement. His instinct for a “deal” of any type is so evanescent-short term that nothing ever gets done. Exhibit A: The NorKors. Trump has no anchor to windward. Pompeo, at bottom, is a political hack who is using Trump for his own purposes.
I don’t think he does either - but through his words and actions he has demonstrated that he is a noninterventionist, and he has also demonstrated that he is willing to make security or trade deals on terms favorable to the US, optics be damned (Taliban at Camp David)

Whether he is a master deal maker or a charlatan is immaterial. Using John Bolton’s departure as some kind of a canary in the coal mine on Trump’s foreign policy is the height of hypocrisy for Trump’s opponents. It is truly an “Orange Man Bad” moment


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Hey, don't spoil their "Orange Man Bad" fun.

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Re: Bolton Out

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CID1990 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: The problem that I have with this analysis is that it presumes that Trump has the mental staying power/skill set “to manipulate bad actors” into some type of durable agreement. His instinct for a “deal” of any type is so evanescent-short term that nothing ever gets done. Exhibit A: The NorKors. Trump has no anchor to windward. Pompeo, at bottom, is a political hack who is using Trump for his own purposes.
I don’t think he does either - but through his words and actions he has demonstrated that he is a noninterventionist, and he has also demonstrated that he is willing to make security or trade deals on terms favorable to the US, optics be damned (Taliban at Camp David)

Whether he is a master deal maker or a charlatan is immaterial. Using John Bolton’s departure as some kind of a canary in the coal mine on Trump’s foreign policy is the height of hypocrisy for Trump’s opponents. It is truly an “Orange Man Bad” moment


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But Trump hasn’t followed through to cut a single deal on security, and his record on actual trade agreements remains to be seen. It seems to be a matter of showmanship with him. Plus he has a notoriously short attention span beyond the next news cycle, leading him to treat Kim Jong-un like a yo-yo with nothing to show for it. I agree on his apparent noninterventionist instincts but, again, we need to see follow-through. Afghanistan troop withdrawal will be a clearer sign, if it happens.
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Re: Bolton Out

Post by CID1990 »

SDHornet wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I don’t think he does either - but through his words and actions he has demonstrated that he is a noninterventionist, and he has also demonstrated that he is willing to make security or trade deals on terms favorable to the US, optics be damned (Taliban at Camp David)

Whether he is a master deal maker or a charlatan is immaterial. Using John Bolton’s departure as some kind of a canary in the coal mine on Trump’s foreign policy is the height of hypocrisy for Trump’s opponents. It is truly an “Orange Man Bad” moment


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Hey, don't spoil their "Orange Man Bad" fun.
Seriously - up is down with some of these people

Republicans aren’t the only ones who are going to have to answer for their bullcrap after Trump is gone

It makes “the 1980s called” look like a minor miscalculation


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Re: Bolton Out

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I don’t think he does either - but through his words and actions he has demonstrated that he is a noninterventionist, and he has also demonstrated that he is willing to make security or trade deals on terms favorable to the US, optics be damned (Taliban at Camp David)

Whether he is a master deal maker or a charlatan is immaterial. Using John Bolton’s departure as some kind of a canary in the coal mine on Trump’s foreign policy is the height of hypocrisy for Trump’s opponents. It is truly an “Orange Man Bad” moment


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But Trump hasn’t followed through to cut a single deal on security, and his record on actual trade agreements remains to be seen. It seems to be a matter of showmanship with him. Plus he has a notoriously short attention span beyond the next news cycle, leading him to treat Kim Jong-un like a yo-yo with nothing to show for it. I agree on his apparent noninterventionist instincts but, again, we need to see follow-through. Afghanistan troop withdrawal will be a clearer sign, if it happens.
Maybe- but my point is that he has repeatedly indicated that we don’t belong in overseas quagmires, and he hasn’t escalated while Iran shows their collective ass and China becomes much mire provocative in the S China Sea. He has done nothing to indicate that he is interested in expending American blood and treasure in what should be other people’s fights. And he’s fired the hawks that have been in his ear. So for me, in terms of overseas adventurism, Trump is an A while Obama was a C- and Bush was an F. And firing Bolton makes up for the idiocy of hiring him in the first place.

Realpolitik alone will keep us in Afghanistan. But I guarantee that if there’s one person who can pull us out - consequences be damned - it is Trump.

And mark my words - if any of these Dems wind up in the Oval Office in 2020 we will be in Afghanistan for their entire tenure. MAYBE Yang would pull us out. Maybe.


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Re: Bolton Out

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Oh and BTW....

Mornin Ivy!

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Re: Bolton Out

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CID1990 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: But Trump hasn’t followed through to cut a single deal on security, and his record on actual trade agreements remains to be seen. It seems to be a matter of showmanship with him. Plus he has a notoriously short attention span beyond the next news cycle, leading him to treat Kim Jong-un like a yo-yo with nothing to show for it. I agree on his apparent noninterventionist instincts but, again, we need to see follow-through. Afghanistan troop withdrawal will be a clearer sign, if it happens.
Maybe- but my point is that he has repeatedly indicated that we don’t belong in overseas quagmires, and he hasn’t escalated while Iran shows their collective ass and China becomes much mire provocative in the S China Sea. He has done nothing to indicate that he is interested in expending American blood and treasure in what should be other people’s fights. And he’s fired the hawks that have been in his ear. So for me, in terms of overseas adventurism, Trump is an A while Obama was a C- and Bush was an F. And firing Bolton makes up for the idiocy of hiring him in the first place.

Realpolitik alone will keep us in Afghanistan. But I guarantee that if there’s one person who can pull us out - consequences be damned - it is Trump.

And mark my words - if any of these Dems wind up in the Oval Office in 2020 we will be in Afghanistan for their entire tenure. MAYBE Yang would pull us out. Maybe.


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I like this assessment. :thumb: Trumps pattern is obvious - he tweets and staggers from one thing to another with no real promise or action being taken towards the goal. Aside from his mere presence lifting the stock market, he really hasn't accomplished anything of long term value - at least nothing that I can think of at the moment. He's for the quick gain, nothing more. For a guy that was going to hire the best people, he certainly has picked some duds. Or has been erratic enough to chase off some that were actually worth a damn (Kelly, Haley, Mathis, for example).

You're right - consequences be damned - Trump is the best person to pull us out of Afghanistan. We don't have a clear exit strategy there. Let's leave but make it known, that if you screw with us the full weight of the US Military Complex will come down on you with unrelenting force. :coffee: :twocents:
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Re: Bolton Out

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I don’t think he does either - but through his words and actions he has demonstrated that he is a noninterventionist, and he has also demonstrated that he is willing to make security or trade deals on terms favorable to the US, optics be damned (Taliban at Camp David)

Whether he is a master deal maker or a charlatan is immaterial. Using John Bolton’s departure as some kind of a canary in the coal mine on Trump’s foreign policy is the height of hypocrisy for Trump’s opponents. It is truly an “Orange Man Bad” moment


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But Trump hasn’t followed through to cut a single deal on security, and his record on actual trade agreements remains to be seen. It seems to be a matter of showmanship with him. Plus he has a notoriously short attention span beyond the next news cycle, leading him to treat Kim Jong-un like a yo-yo with nothing to show for it. I agree on his apparent noninterventionist instincts but, again, we need to see follow-through. Afghanistan troop withdrawal will be a clearer sign, if it happens.
Huh. Who would have thunk it? :lol: :lol:
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Re: Bolton Out

Post by UNI88 »

CID1990 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: But Trump hasn’t followed through to cut a single deal on security, and his record on actual trade agreements remains to be seen. It seems to be a matter of showmanship with him. Plus he has a notoriously short attention span beyond the next news cycle, leading him to treat Kim Jong-un like a yo-yo with nothing to show for it. I agree on his apparent noninterventionist instincts but, again, we need to see follow-through. Afghanistan troop withdrawal will be a clearer sign, if it happens.
Maybe- but my point is that he has repeatedly indicated that we don’t belong in overseas quagmires, and he hasn’t escalated while Iran shows their collective ass and China becomes much mire provocative in the S China Sea. He has done nothing to indicate that he is interested in expending American blood and treasure in what should be other people’s fights. And he’s fired the hawks that have been in his ear. So for me, in terms of overseas adventurism, Trump is an A while Obama was a C- and Bush was an F. And firing Bolton makes up for the idiocy of hiring him in the first place.

Realpolitik alone will keep us in Afghanistan. But I guarantee that if there’s one person who can pull us out - consequences be damned - it is Trump.

And mark my words - if any of these Dems wind up in the Oval Office in 2020 we will be in Afghanistan for their entire tenure. MAYBE Yang would pull us out. Maybe.
CID's rocking this thread and Ivy's asking good questions.

What's worse Trump's bluster and lack of follow-through or a neo-con POTUS that actually intervenes?

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Re: Bolton Out

Post by css75 »

houndawg wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Five bucks says Bolton protested Trump inviting the Taliban to Camp David a little too forcefully. He would not have been happy about it.
Try to fathom the caliber of the wackjobs you need to surround yourself with to make Bolton look like the reasonable one.
When did you become a Bolton fan?


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Re: Bolton Out

Post by Ivytalk »

CID1990 wrote:Oh and BTW....

Mornin Ivy!

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Re: Bolton Out

Post by UNI88 »

The bottom line no matter how much anyone wants to manufacture outrage is that the world is a safer place with Bolton removed from a position of influence.

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