Impeach Trump!

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby JohnStOnge » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:09 pm

Here's another article on the Steele Dossier:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/07/politics ... index.html

The point is, this Right Wing talking point about it being "Fake" is nonsense. It has not been shown to be so.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby css75 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:51 pm

Yeah, with sources like CNN and Newsweek, what could be wrong with that?


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby HI54UNI » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:02 pm




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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby CID1990 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:58 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Which parts of the dossier were verified, John?

That Trump did in fact travel to Russia?

What in the dossier was verified that was not already in the public domain?


https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-d ... now-777116

If it weren't in the public domain I wouldn't know about it so I don't quite know what you're getting at there.

Notice that in that article there are things that are "unproven." But there is nothing that is "disproven."


Carter Page met with Rosneft. Ok- that wasn’t public domain

The other two - that Russian social media was targeting US youth... that is not a revelation. Newsweek may have well as said, “Russia meddles in US elections - VERIFIED”

Trump maintains ties with Azerbaijani he worked on the Miss Universe Pageant ... I’ll just leave that one there.

That’s pretty weak sauce, Agent Mulder. Steele was a known quantity at the FBI and his track record isn’t all that great. If that’s all that’s verified in the dossier after a special prosecutor, the entire CI side of the FBI, and legions of the speculative US news media could glean from it then I’d say Steele’s batting average hasn’t improved.

That said, I hope the Clinton campaign’s proxies paid him a LOT of money (read: set money on fire)

BTW- nobody has disproven the existence of Gawd, either


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Skjellyfetti » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:56 am

CID1990 wrote:the entire CI side of the FBI


We don't know what came out of the CI investigation.

It's not even clear if its still ongoing or not.
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby CID1990 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:13 am

Skjellyfetti wrote:
CID1990 wrote:the entire CI side of the FBI


We don't know what came out of the CI investigation.

It's not even clear if its still ongoing or not.


The last logic exercise I gave you didn’t go well for you, Reek. You want another so soon?


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Skjellyfetti » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:14 am

I'm not saying we can assume more of the Steele dossier was confirmed by the CI investigation. I'm saying we don't know. You said that "the entire CI investigation" confirmed little of the Steele dossier. What are you basing that on? Do you know any (much less the entire) conclusions of the CI investigation? Do you even know if it's finished or ongoing? :?

You should give yourself your logic lesson.
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby GannonFan » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:33 am

JohnStOnge wrote:
css75 wrote:

That is in effect to protect the president from fake charges like this so called whistleblower and Steele Dossier.


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As I said in another post: The Steele Dossier has not been shown to be fake and some of it has been verified. You really, really need to break free from the cult and quit repeating those talking points.

Referencing the whistleblower thing is even worse because we have the President releasing a call summary that validates what the whistleblower reported.

To use a cliche: Quit drinking the Kool Aid.


Of course, the big elephant in the room regarding the Steele Dossier is that it involved one political campaign (actually, more than one) paying foreign entities money to collect dirt on another political campaign. And then that information, in some part, fed into the federal investigation of the next Presidential administration. Hard to get around the idea of political campaigns paying foreign countries to come up with damaging information regarding political opponents. :coffee:
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby CID1990 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:12 am

Skjellyfetti wrote:I'm not saying we can assume more of the Steele dossier was confirmed by the CI investigation. I'm saying we don't know. You said that "the entire CI investigation" confirmed little of the Steele dossier. What are you basing that on? Do you know any (much less the entire) conclusions of the CI investigation? Do you even know if it's finished or ongoing? :?

You should give yourself your logic lesson.


You are correct, Reek. You don’t know.

But anyone who knows anything about the “CI side” of the FBI (not “the CI investigation”... note how you changed what I said) knows that there is no ongoing CI investigation into the Steele dossier - because the special prosecutor handled that inquiry. Any inquiry by the FBI itself ended with the Mueller’s appointment. They had their crack at it prior to that.

So yes, Reek, I know whether it is finished or ongoing, and if you had any common sense or knowledge of the organizational culture you’d know it too, instead of coming back for another beating.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby kalm » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:22 am

Gators and snakes? He seriously had them look into it and price it out?

Sweet Jesus! :rofl:

Forget impeachment. It’s 25th amendment time.

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Ibanez » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:24 am

kalm wrote:Gators and snakes? He seriously had them look into it and price it out?

Sweet Jesus! :rofl:

Forget impeachment. It’s 25th amendment time.

:nod:

And shooting them in the legs. :thumb:
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Skjellyfetti » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:44 am

CID1990 wrote:But anyone who knows anything about the “CI side” of the FBI (not “the CI investigation”... note how you changed what I said) knows that there is no ongoing CI investigation into the Steele dossier - because the special prosecutor handled that inquiry. Any inquiry by the FBI itself ended with the Mueller’s appointment. They had their crack at it prior to that.

So yes, Reek, I know whether it is finished or ongoing, and if you had any common sense or knowledge of the organizational culture you’d know it too, instead of coming back for another beating.


Not true. Mueller's investigation and resulting report were focused on crimes. The FBI's CI investigation remained (and, perhaps remains) separate.

Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi brought up how earlier in the day Mueller described his report as “detailing a criminal investigation” and Mueller agreed with his characterization. The Democrat from Illinois said “since it was outside the purview of your investigation, your report did not reach counterintelligence conclusions regarding the subject matter of your report.”

“That’s true,” Mueller replied.


“For instance, since it was outside your purview, your report did not reach counterintelligence conclusions regarding any Trump administration officials who might potentially be vulnerable to compromise or blackmail by Russia, correct?” Krishnamoorthi asked.

Mueller indicated those determinations were likely made by the FBI and did not make it into his report because “we advert to the counterintelligence goals of our investigation which were secondary to any criminal wrongdoing that we could find.”

Moving on to “counterintelligence risks associated with lying," Krishnamoorthi asked Mueller whether individuals could be blackmailed if they lie about their contacts with foreign nations. Mueller agreed.

“For example, you successfully charged former national security adviser Michael Flynn of lying to federal agents about his conversations with Russian officials, correct?” Krishnamoorthi asked.

Mueller agreed again.

“Since it was outside the purview of your investigation, your report did not address how Flynn's false statements could pose a national security risk because the Russians knew the falsity of those statements, right?” Krishnamoorthi continued.

In what looked to be a confirmation of ongoing counterintelligence inquiries within the bureau, Mueller said he “cannot get into that mainly because there are many elements of the FBI that are looking at different aspects of that issue.”

“Currently?” Krishnamoorthi asked.

“Currently,” Mueller replied.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... el-inquiry
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby css75 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:43 pm

Sorry to disappoint you rabid pro Impeachers. The NYT said the so called whistle blower met with Schiff prior to submitting statement, which shows Schiff probably gave guidance to this. Also, rewriting the rules so hearsay could be used just before this apis certainly skeptic ready.

Basically, this all makes another big fat nothing and jelly, JSO and other haters will end up with egg on their faces. AGAIN!!!


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Ibanez » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:36 pm

css75 wrote:Sorry to disappoint you rabid pro Impeachers. The NYT said the so called whistle blower met with Schiff prior to submitting statement, which shows Schiff probably gave guidance to this. Also, rewriting the rules so hearsay could be used just before this apis certainly skeptic ready.

Basically, this all makes another big fat nothing and jelly, JSO and other haters will end up with egg on their faces. AGAIN!!!


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Actually it shows that he met with Schiff. Nothing more. I'd like to see your evidence.

And the rules weren't re-written. That's been debunked.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby CID1990 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:20 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:
CID1990 wrote:But anyone who knows anything about the “CI side” of the FBI (not “the CI investigation”... note how you changed what I said) knows that there is no ongoing CI investigation into the Steele dossier - because the special prosecutor handled that inquiry. Any inquiry by the FBI itself ended with the Mueller’s appointment. They had their crack at it prior to that.

So yes, Reek, I know whether it is finished or ongoing, and if you had any common sense or knowledge of the organizational culture you’d know it too, instead of coming back for another beating.


Not true. Mueller's investigation and resulting report were focused on crimes. The FBI's CI investigation remained (and, perhaps remains) separate.

Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi brought up how earlier in the day Mueller described his report as “detailing a criminal investigation” and Mueller agreed with his characterization. The Democrat from Illinois said “since it was outside the purview of your investigation, your report did not reach counterintelligence conclusions regarding the subject matter of your report.”

“That’s true,” Mueller replied.


“For instance, since it was outside your purview, your report did not reach counterintelligence conclusions regarding any Trump administration officials who might potentially be vulnerable to compromise or blackmail by Russia, correct?” Krishnamoorthi asked.

Mueller indicated those determinations were likely made by the FBI and did not make it into his report because “we advert to the counterintelligence goals of our investigation which were secondary to any criminal wrongdoing that we could find.”

Moving on to “counterintelligence risks associated with lying," Krishnamoorthi asked Mueller whether individuals could be blackmailed if they lie about their contacts with foreign nations. Mueller agreed.

“For example, you successfully charged former national security adviser Michael Flynn of lying to federal agents about his conversations with Russian officials, correct?” Krishnamoorthi asked.

Mueller agreed again.

“Since it was outside the purview of your investigation, your report did not address how Flynn's false statements could pose a national security risk because the Russians knew the falsity of those statements, right?” Krishnamoorthi continued.

In what looked to be a confirmation of ongoing counterintelligence inquiries within the bureau, Mueller said he “cannot get into that mainly because there are many elements of the FBI that are looking at different aspects of that issue.”

“Currently?” Krishnamoorthi asked.

“Currently,” Mueller replied.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... el-inquiry


You’ve already shown your ignorance - there’s no need to double down on it, Reek

Your bolded part indicates that Mueller didn’t consider counterintel issues (true) but it doesn’t indicate that there is a CI investigation into the Steele dossier (there isn’t)

Mueller later says that there are other parts currently looking into the natsec implications of Flynn lying to investigators - which is something that, in spite of what Mueller says, cannot be followed up because the facts are already known: that Flynn lied about talking to Russians - he can’t be blackmailed on that because he was charged and it is in the Mueller report.

So contra what Mueller said, to be “investigating” the implications of what Flynn said is completely unnecessary, and therefore a waste of time.

Normally I’d say that surely this doesn’t have to be explained to a logical person but obviously that isn’t the case here.

I suppose as the weeks, months, and years go by I’ll have to check back with you about the results of the CI investigation over whether or not Trump really did have hookers pee on him.


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby css75 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:31 pm

Ibanez wrote:
css75 wrote:Sorry to disappoint you rabid pro Impeachers. The NYT said the so called whistle blower met with Schiff prior to submitting statement, which shows Schiff probably gave guidance to this. Also, rewriting the rules so hearsay could be used just before this apis certainly skeptic ready.

Basically, this all makes another big fat nothing and jelly, JSO and other haters will end up with egg on their faces. AGAIN!!!


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Actually it shows that he met with Schiff. Nothing more. I'd like to see your evidence.

And the rules weren't re-written. That's been debunked.



Meeting with Schiff looks very suspicious, whether there was anything to it or not.


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Ibanez » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:57 pm

css75 wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Actually it shows that he met with Schiff. Nothing more. I'd like to see your evidence.

And the rules weren't re-written. That's been debunked.



Meeting with Schiff looks very suspicious, whether there was anything to it or not.


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And responding to a statement about buying weapons by asking for a favor isn’t?


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby JohnStOnge » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:36 pm

css75 wrote:Yeah, with sources like CNN and Newsweek, what could be wrong with that?


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A lot less than what could be wrong with the sources the right has been tending to use in recent years.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby JohnStOnge » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:38 pm

Ibanez wrote:
css75 wrote:Sorry to disappoint you rabid pro Impeachers. The NYT said the so called whistle blower met with Schiff prior to submitting statement, which shows Schiff probably gave guidance to this. Also, rewriting the rules so hearsay could be used just before this apis certainly skeptic ready.

Basically, this all makes another big fat nothing and jelly, JSO and other haters will end up with egg on their faces. AGAIN!!!


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Actually it shows that he met with Schiff. Nothing more. I'd like to see your evidence.

And the rules weren't re-written. That's been debunked.


It did not show that he met with Schiff.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby mainejeff2 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:03 am

#MoscowMitch has been very quiet lately.

:coffee:

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby JohnStOnge » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:34 pm

GannonFan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
As I said in another post: The Steele Dossier has not been shown to be fake and some of it has been verified. You really, really need to break free from the cult and quit repeating those talking points.

Referencing the whistleblower thing is even worse because we have the President releasing a call summary that validates what the whistleblower reported.

To use a cliche: Quit drinking the Kool Aid.


Of course, the big elephant in the room regarding the Steele Dossier is that it involved one political campaign (actually, more than one) paying foreign entities money to collect dirt on another political campaign. And then that information, in some part, fed into the federal investigation of the next Presidential administration. Hard to get around the idea of political campaigns paying foreign countries to come up with damaging information regarding political opponents. :coffee:


"Foreign entities" is different than "Foreign countries." A private consultant getting information from foreigners is different than a foreign country making an effort to interfere in an election. In any case: The Steele Dossier has not been discredited as a general matter. The idea that is has been is one of those myths being spun out by the Republican side. Some of it has been verified. Some of it has not.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby CID1990 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:15 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Of course, the big elephant in the room regarding the Steele Dossier is that it involved one political campaign (actually, more than one) paying foreign entities money to collect dirt on another political campaign. And then that information, in some part, fed into the federal investigation of the next Presidential administration. Hard to get around the idea of political campaigns paying foreign countries to come up with damaging information regarding political opponents. :coffee:


"Foreign entities" is different than "Foreign countries." A private consultant getting information from foreigners is different than a foreign country making an effort to interfere in an election. In any case: The Steele Dossier has not been discredited as a general matter. The idea that is has been is one of those myths being spun out by the Republican side. Some of it has been verified. Some of it has not.


You have already been told that your “some of the dossier is verified” schtick is misleading. Fix yourself.


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby GannonFan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:52 am

JohnStOnge wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Of course, the big elephant in the room regarding the Steele Dossier is that it involved one political campaign (actually, more than one) paying foreign entities money to collect dirt on another political campaign. And then that information, in some part, fed into the federal investigation of the next Presidential administration. Hard to get around the idea of political campaigns paying foreign countries to come up with damaging information regarding political opponents. :coffee:


"Foreign entities" is different than "Foreign countries." A private consultant getting information from foreigners is different than a foreign country making an effort to interfere in an election. In any case: The Steele Dossier has not been discredited as a general matter. The idea that is has been is one of those myths being spun out by the Republican side. Some of it has been verified. Some of it has not.


Come on, that's your defense? Heck, most of the drama in the whole Red Scare thing that got folks in trouble were that pretty much any Russian anyone talked to could, in some way, be connected to the KGB or whatever they call it now. Heck, the Russian ambassador, on regular mainstream news outlets, was being reported as a master Russian spy in charge of recruiting Americans. Steele wasn't putting out flyers and taking phone calls from private citizens, he was using his connections in the intelligence world to talk to intelligence agents in Russia. So people who worked directly for the Russian government. And whether the information was correct or not isn't part of the debate at all, it's whether American citizens, as part of a political campaign, not only seeking out that information but paying money for it, is bad or not. Or if it's any different than the President doing the same thing. I frankly think they're both objectionable and both pretty much the same.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Chizzang » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:59 am

mainejeff2 wrote:#MoscowMitch has been very quiet lately.

:coffee:


He and his (not so secret) boyfriend took a vacation to go protest Planned Parenthood clinics

:lol:

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:47 pm

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
"Foreign entities" is different than "Foreign countries." A private consultant getting information from foreigners is different than a foreign country making an effort to interfere in an election. In any case: The Steele Dossier has not been discredited as a general matter. The idea that is has been is one of those myths being spun out by the Republican side. Some of it has been verified. Some of it has not.


You have already been told that your “some of the dossier is verified” schtick is misleading. Fix yourself.


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I didn't see that assertion but it doesn't matter. The statement "some of the dossier is verified" is true and it is not misleading. It's just a fact.
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