Impeach Trump!

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby CID1990 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:01 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
You have already been told that your “some of the dossier is verified” schtick is misleading. Fix yourself.


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I didn't see that assertion but it doesn't matter. The statement "some of the dossier is verified" is true and it is not misleading. It's just a fact.


It is misleading because those things that have been verified are 1) easily detectable (they didn’t need a spook to find them), 2) not indicative of a shady relationship with Russians, and 3) not even pertinent to the collusion conspiracy theory.

You might as well say the dossier is partially verified because all the names were spelled correctly
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby JohnStOnge » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:38 pm

This is as good a thread as any to point out yet another area in which the Republicans are hurling total bullshit. It's the idea that a House impeachment inquiry requires a vote and that lack of a vote justifies refusing to honor requests for information. See the Lawfare article at https://www.lawfareblog.com/must-house- ... nt-inquiry.

Is it constitutionally acceptable for the House speaker to initiate an impeachment “by means of nothing more than a press conference”? In short, yes.

The constitutional text on this issue is spare. The Constitution simply says that the House has the sole power of impeachment. Ultimately, if the House wants to impeach someone, it needs to muster a simple majority in support of articles of impeachment that can be presented to the Senate. How the House gets there is entirely up to the chamber itself to determine. There is no constitutional requirement that the House take two successful votes on impeachment, one to authorize some kind of inquiry and one to ratify whatever emerges from that inquiry. An impeachment inquiry is not “invalid” because there has been no vote to formally launch it, and any eventual impeachment would not be “invalid” because the process that led to it did not feature a floor vote authorizing a specific inquiry.


For what it's worth: Lawfare is rated "Leased Biased" with a "Factual Reporting" rating of "Very High" by the site I like to use (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/lawfare-blog/).
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby JohnStOnge » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:01 pm

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
I didn't see that assertion but it doesn't matter. The statement "some of the dossier is verified" is true and it is not misleading. It's just a fact.


It is misleading because those things that have been verified are 1) easily detectable (they didn’t need a spook to find them), 2) not indicative of a shady relationship with Russians, and 3) not even pertinent to the collusion conspiracy theory.

You might as well say the dossier is partially verified because all the names were spelled correctly


I disagree with the assertion that it's misleading to say some things were verified. Like for instance the dossier saying the Russian regime had been behind the recent (at the time) leak of embarrassing e-mail messages, emanating from the Democratic National Committee (DNC) to the WikiLeaks platform. Yes, that is common knowledge now. But I don't think it was when the dossier was assembled. Was it easy to detect? I don't know. The Dossier also said Trump had interest in developing real estate deals in Russia. We now know that is true. Was that easy to detect? I don't know. But Trump was denying he had any interest in it at the time. The Dossier said Page had interactions with Russians. He did. Was it easy to detect? I don't know. But so on and so forth.

It is not misleading to say that things in the dossier have been corroborated. My impression is that more has been corroborated than has been disproven. But I don't know if I'd go through the effort of trying to quantify that just to win an argument on an internet message board. I'll do that with some things. But it normally has to be a little easier than it would be to go through that dossier and categorize all the statements made as proven, disproven, or neither.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby css75 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:11 pm

Come on JSO, even Congress and MSM have moved on from Russia, they are well into the next hoax.


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:36 am

mainejeff2 wrote::coffee:


Progress on the left. You have to admit he is your President to have him impeached.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby CAA Flagship » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:28 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
mainejeff2 wrote::coffee:


Progress on the left. You have to admit he is your President to have him impeached.

:lol:

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby css75 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:00 pm

Another wasted thread, Pelosi said no vote. Translation: nothing there and/or she can’t get the votes.

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby kalm » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:50 am

The argument for why no one is above the law or the constitution from a Republican. And I hadn’t heard the phrase “Moron Contra” yet. :lol:


The 2016 election is not under threat of being negated. Donald Trump assumed the office of the presidency. I watched it with my own eyes. It was some pretty weird shit. Once he got there, impeachment became the constitutional remedy for removing him in the case of high crimes and misdemeanors while in office. Had he not had any misdemeanors after getting elected, impeachment would not be a serious issue. If you think impeachment is the same thing as a “Deep State coup” then what you’re really saying is that you don’t think the Constitution is an adequate guide to how our government should be run. In which case, Donald Trump is the least of our problems.

And as to the 2016 election that despite winning, Trump and his enablers are obsessed with relitigating, that part of the Ukraine scandal while nutso (technical term) isn’t the operative issue. If Trump had only sent Zelensky on an insane wild goose chase to uncover “the truth” about the 2016 election by finding the real DNC server that Sean Hannity told him was hidden somewhere in Zaporozhye, then I could understand coming to the conclusion that the president is merely a dangerous fool in need of a head exam, but not impeachment.

But that isn’t the question at hand. According to testimony by Fiona Hill this week, the ambassador to the E.U., Godon Sondland, told Ukranians at Trump’s request that they would only get a meeting with the president if they opened an investigation into Hunter Biden


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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby JohnStOnge » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:20 pm

As I watch this situation unfold I think the best thing the Democrats could do is to go through with the inquiry then issue a statement such as this:

"We think the evidence yielded by the inquiry is more than sufficient to justify removing Donald Trump from office. However, we recognize that there is a lack of integrity among Republican members of the Legislative Branch right now and Republicans hold the majority in the Senate. There is no chance that they will do the right thing. So we will not waste the country's time by referring this matter to the Senate. The American People have seen the evidence. We will trust the American People to decide during the next Presidential election."

I don't think they'll do that. But I think that sort of thing would be the smart thing to do.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby GannonFan » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:37 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:As I watch this situation unfold I think the best thing the Democrats could do is to go through with the inquiry then issue a statement such as this:

"We think the evidence yielded by the inquiry is more than sufficient to justify removing Donald Trump from office. However, we recognize that there is a lack of integrity among Republican members of the Legislative Branch right now and Republicans hold the majority in the Senate. There is no chance that they will do the right thing. So we will not waste the country's time by referring this matter to the Senate. The American People have seen the evidence. We will trust the American People to decide during the next Presidential election."

I don't think they'll do that. But I think that sort of thing would be the smart thing to do.


Sure, go through the entire impeachment process, delay legislation on other stuff during that time, insist that it is so serious that Trump should be removed from office, but then say "nah, we won't do anything". Don't get the satisfaction of counting Trump among the very few Presidents who have been impeached and don't get the GOP Senators on record deciding not to remove him from office. So piss off your base who have wanted him impeached for years and still raise the ire of Trump's own supporters. Yeah, winning strategy right there. :lol:
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby CID1990 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:43 pm

GannonFan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:As I watch this situation unfold I think the best thing the Democrats could do is to go through with the inquiry then issue a statement such as this:

"We think the evidence yielded by the inquiry is more than sufficient to justify removing Donald Trump from office. However, we recognize that there is a lack of integrity among Republican members of the Legislative Branch right now and Republicans hold the majority in the Senate. There is no chance that they will do the right thing. So we will not waste the country's time by referring this matter to the Senate. The American People have seen the evidence. We will trust the American People to decide during the next Presidential election."

I don't think they'll do that. But I think that sort of thing would be the smart thing to do.


Sure, go through the entire impeachment process, delay legislation on other stuff during that time, insist that it is so serious that Trump should be removed from office, but then say "nah, we won't do anything". Don't get the satisfaction of counting Trump among the very few Presidents who have been impeached and don't get the GOP Senators on record deciding not to remove him from office. So piss off your base who have wanted him impeached for years and still raise the ire of Trump's own supporters. Yeah, winning strategy right there. :lol:


The re-worked trade deal that replaces NAFTA has bipartisan support and is a slam dunk to pass both the House and the Senate

But Pelosi won't bring it to a vote because of course they have other priorities.

The House needs to fish or cut bait on impeachment while they still have time left to accomplish other things... especially since we all know impeachment will amount to nothing more than an official rebuke from the House only
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby SDHornet » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:47 pm

CID1990 wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Sure, go through the entire impeachment process, delay legislation on other stuff during that time, insist that it is so serious that Trump should be removed from office, but then say "nah, we won't do anything". Don't get the satisfaction of counting Trump among the very few Presidents who have been impeached and don't get the GOP Senators on record deciding not to remove him from office. So piss off your base who have wanted him impeached for years and still raise the ire of Trump's own supporters. Yeah, winning strategy right there. :lol:


The re-worked trade deal that replaces NAFTA has bipartisan support and is a slam dunk to pass both the House and the Senate

But Pelosi won't bring it to a vote because of course they have other priorities.

The House needs to fish or cut bait on impeachment while they still have time left to accomplish other things... especially since we all know impeachment will amount to nothing more than an official rebuke from the House only

Ignoring the re-worked trade deal is something the conks need to run on this election cycle.

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby kalm » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:22 pm

CID1990 wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Sure, go through the entire impeachment process, delay legislation on other stuff during that time, insist that it is so serious that Trump should be removed from office, but then say "nah, we won't do anything". Don't get the satisfaction of counting Trump among the very few Presidents who have been impeached and don't get the GOP Senators on record deciding not to remove him from office. So piss off your base who have wanted him impeached for years and still raise the ire of Trump's own supporters. Yeah, winning strategy right there. :lol:


The re-worked trade deal that replaces NAFTA has bipartisan support and is a slam dunk to pass both the House and the Senate

But Pelosi won't bring it to a vote because of course they have other priorities.

The House needs to fish or cut bait on impeachment while they still have time left to accomplish other things... especially since we all know impeachment will amount to nothing more than an official rebuke from the House only


Is it a populist trade deal?

Are you arguing this from a pragmatic standpoint or because you don’t think Trump has done anything impeachable?
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby CID1990 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:27 am

kalm wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
The re-worked trade deal that replaces NAFTA has bipartisan support and is a slam dunk to pass both the House and the Senate

But Pelosi won't bring it to a vote because of course they have other priorities.

The House needs to fish or cut bait on impeachment while they still have time left to accomplish other things... especially since we all know impeachment will amount to nothing more than an official rebuke from the House only


Is it a populist trade deal?

Are you arguing this from a pragmatic standpoint or because you don’t think Trump has done anything impeachable?


I’m not talking about Trump here at all

I’m saying that the new trade agreement has wide bipartisan support - that’s fact.

It also addresses several issues with the old NAFTA which were giving unfair advantages to Mexico especially - fact

Given that it is popular on both sides of the aisle it should be easy to fast track

I realize you’re OK with everything taking a back seat to impeachment but there is zero reason not to be critical of the House not bringing this to the floor stat.

And like I said... given that impeachment is only going to amount to rebuke from the House, Pelosi should be finding ways to show productivity outside of just impeachment. The trade deal is very low hanging fruit in that respect.




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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Ibanez » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:39 am

JohnStOnge wrote:As I watch this situation unfold I think the best thing the Democrats could do is to go through with the inquiry then issue a statement such as this:

"We think the evidence yielded by the inquiry is more than sufficient to justify removing Donald Trump from office. However, we recognize that there is a lack of integrity among Republican members of the Legislative Branch right now and Republicans hold the majority in the Senate. There is no chance that they will do the right thing. So we will not waste the country's time by referring this matter to the Senate. The American People have seen the evidence. We will trust the American People to decide during the next Presidential election."

I don't think they'll do that. But I think that sort of thing would be the smart thing to do.

1) That will never happen
2) That would be a slap in the face to everyone. Wasting time and money and you're going to do NOTHING. Plus, their base would be livid. And it'd only validate the Republican argument against.

That would be the dumbest thing they could do.
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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby SeattleGriz » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:22 am

JohnStOnge wrote:This is as good a thread as any to point out yet another area in which the Republicans are hurling total bullshit. It's the idea that a House impeachment inquiry requires a vote and that lack of a vote justifies refusing to honor requests for information. See the Lawfare article at https://www.lawfareblog.com/must-house- ... nt-inquiry.

Is it constitutionally acceptable for the House speaker to initiate an impeachment “by means of nothing more than a press conference”? In short, yes.

The constitutional text on this issue is spare. The Constitution simply says that the House has the sole power of impeachment. Ultimately, if the House wants to impeach someone, it needs to muster a simple majority in support of articles of impeachment that can be presented to the Senate. How the House gets there is entirely up to the chamber itself to determine. There is no constitutional requirement that the House take two successful votes on impeachment, one to authorize some kind of inquiry and one to ratify whatever emerges from that inquiry. An impeachment inquiry is not “invalid” because there has been no vote to formally launch it, and any eventual impeachment would not be “invalid” because the process that led to it did not feature a floor vote authorizing a specific inquiry.


For what it's worth: Lawfare is rated "Leased Biased" with a "Factual Reporting" rating of "Very High" by the site I like to use (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/lawfare-blog/).


You know my favorite site, The Gateway Pundit? What that site is to the far right, is what Lawfare blog is to the Left.

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Re: Impeach Trump!

Postby Winterborn » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:41 pm

Ibanez wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:As I watch this situation unfold I think the best thing the Democrats could do is to go through with the inquiry then issue a statement such as this:

"We think the evidence yielded by the inquiry is more than sufficient to justify removing Donald Trump from office. However, we recognize that there is a lack of integrity among Republican members of the Legislative Branch right now and Republicans hold the majority in the Senate. There is no chance that they will do the right thing. So we will not waste the country's time by referring this matter to the Senate. The American People have seen the evidence. We will trust the American People to decide during the next Presidential election."

I don't think they'll do that. But I think that sort of thing would be the smart thing to do.

1) That will never happen
2) That would be a slap in the face to everyone. Wasting time and money and you're going to do NOTHING. Plus, their base would be livid. And it'd only validate the Republican argument against.

That would be the dumbest thing they could do.


Based on the what they have been doing since Trump was elected I wouldn't bet against them screwing up a wet dream.

Like Cid said, there is a few things they could be doing to show that they are willing to still do their jobs and put the country first, while maintaining the push to impeach Trump. But so far they have been acting like teenage boys seeing their first pair of :flash:
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