Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

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Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby kalm » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:00 pm

Listening to Kyle Kulinsky today on the Rogan Podcast. He raised a good point.

What’s a bigger threat to our politics, tribalism or elitism?

Joe Stein has a new book out in defense of elitism. Trump probably won due to anti-elitism in the rust belt. Conks with gay children, donks who love hunting...

What say the CS intelligentsia?

(Ivy grads are not allowed in this thread :) )
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby Winterborn » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:07 pm

Simple, both. :coffee:
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby Ivytalk » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:17 pm

Fuck you, then! :tothehand:
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby Pwns » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:28 pm

kalm wrote:Listening to Kyle Kulinsky today on the Rogan Podcast. He raised a good point.

What’s a bigger threat to our politics, tribalism or elitism?

Joe Stein has a new book out in defense of elitism. Trump probably won due to anti-elitism in the rust belt. Conks with gay children, donks who love hunting...

What say the CS intelligentsia?

(Ivy grads are not allowed in this thread :) )


I think "elitism" has become a meaningless word, much like "populism".

Our last presidential election was a woman whose fame and fortune comes from her husband versus a guy that inherited a fortune and now has a fortune. Where's the anti-elitism among voters?
We get the government we deserve. :nod:

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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby css75 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:31 pm

Both


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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby kalm » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:55 pm

Ivytalk wrote:Fuck you, then! :tothehand:


Based on this reply I’ll now allow it. :mrgreen:

But if you answer both, I swear I’ll spaz out!
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby Ivytalk » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:04 pm

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Fuck you, then! :tothehand:


Based on this reply I’ll now allow it. :mrgreen:

But if you answer both, I swear I’ll spaz out!

Spaz not! :mrgreen:

Tribalism is far worse. It divides with no hope of reunification. Elitism offers hope by way of example and achievement. :notworthy:

Don’t know Joe Stein. Jill’s brother?
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby CAA Flagship » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:05 pm

I would like to hear the definition of each.

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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby css75 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:53 pm

CAA Flagship wrote:I would like to hear the definition of each.


Good definitions will help me decide on one or the other.


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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby 93henfan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:06 pm

CAA Flagship wrote:I would like to hear the definition of each.


Look them up, you lazy fuck!





Then let me know.
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby AZGrizFan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:44 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
Based on this reply I’ll now allow it. :mrgreen:

But if you answer both, I swear I’ll spaz out!

Spaz not! :mrgreen:

Tribalism is far worse. It divides with no hope of reunification. Elitism offers hope by way of example and achievement. :notworthy:

Don’t know Joe Stein. Jill’s brother?


sorry, but Tribalism is just another word for class warfare, or war on “elitism”....it’s the same thing just dressed up a different way. And Tribalism can occur in a number of different forms...certainly more than elitism....

And Tribalism is the foundation of the current donk party.
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby kalm » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:02 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Spaz not! :mrgreen:

Tribalism is far worse. It divides with no hope of reunification. Elitism offers hope by way of example and achievement. :notworthy:

Don’t know Joe Stein. Jill’s brother?


sorry, but Tribalism is just another word for class warfare, or war on “elitism”....it’s the same thing just dressed up a different way. And Tribalism can occur in a number of different forms...certainly more than elitism....

And Tribalism is the foundation of the current donk party.


Huh WHAT?

Sweet Jesus I should have sad Idaho grads are not allowed in this thread.

:lol:
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby AZGrizFan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:07 pm

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
sorry, but Tribalism is just another word for class warfare, or war on “elitism”....it’s the same thing just dressed up a different way. And Tribalism can occur in a number of different forms...certainly more than elitism....

And Tribalism is the foundation of the current donk party.


Huh WHAT?

Sweet Jesus I should have sad Idaho grads are not allowed in this thread.

:lol:


Too nuanced for you?
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby CID1990 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:30 pm

We've ALWAYS been tribal - that's the human condition since the dawn of man

and our country was founded under that paradigm

Elitism is also age-old but it is recent events that have made it an issue. And elitism comes in many flavors... the cognitive elite, the economic elite, the political elite... there's a windmill in there for all of us. I do believe that elitism divides us much more than tribalism
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby UNI88 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:44 pm

What kind of elitism are we talking about? The faux elites like Trump, Hillary & Bernie or the real elites like me?

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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby CID1990 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:43 am

UNI88 wrote:What kind of elitism are we talking about? The faux elites like Trump, Hillary & Bernie or the real elites like me?

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There are more than a few cognitive elites right here in this forum...


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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby kalm » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:55 am

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Huh WHAT?

Sweet Jesus I should have sad Idaho grads are not allowed in this thread.

:lol:


Too nuanced for you?


If by nuanced you mean dumb....yes.
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby Ivytalk » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:12 am

CID1990 wrote:We've ALWAYS been tribal - that's the human condition since the dawn of man

and our country was founded under that paradigm

Elitism is also age-old but it is recent events that have made it an issue. And elitism comes in many flavors... the cognitive elite, the economic elite, the political elite... there's a windmill in there for all of us. I do believe that elitism divides us much more than tribalism

Elitism does take a number of forms, but if you did a Venn diagram of them, I think you’d find a significant overlap. The term “elite” has acquired a bit of a stench in recent years, but its usual meaning just connotes being “the choice part,” a “socially superior group,” or a “powerful minority group” (Webster’s). Those are objective factors signifying strength or quality. However, our politics of envy have turned them into negatives. I think the Founders viewed tribalism — or “factions” or “parties” in the parlance of 1787 — as the greater threat to the republican government they envisioned. See Federalist 9 and 10. I share that view, antiquated as it may seem.
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby kalm » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:27 am

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:We've ALWAYS been tribal - that's the human condition since the dawn of man

and our country was founded under that paradigm

Elitism is also age-old but it is recent events that have made it an issue. And elitism comes in many flavors... the cognitive elite, the economic elite, the political elite... there's a windmill in there for all of us. I do believe that elitism divides us much more than tribalism

Elitism does take a number of forms, but if you did a Venn diagram of them, I think you’d find a significant overlap. The term “elite” has acquired a bit of a stench in recent years, but its usual meaning just connotes being “the choice part,” a “socially superior group,” or a “powerful minority group” (Webster’s). Those are objective factors signifying strength or quality. However, our politics of envy have turned them into negatives. I think the Founders viewed tribalism — or “factions” or “parties” in the parlance of 1787 — as the greater threat to the republican government they envisioned. See Federalist 9 and 10. I share that view, antiquated as it may seem.


Tribal can also be positive or negative. It’s the suffix that tends to make it pejorative.
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby CID1990 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:39 am

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:We've ALWAYS been tribal - that's the human condition since the dawn of man

and our country was founded under that paradigm

Elitism is also age-old but it is recent events that have made it an issue. And elitism comes in many flavors... the cognitive elite, the economic elite, the political elite... there's a windmill in there for all of us. I do believe that elitism divides us much more than tribalism

Elitism does take a number of forms, but if you did a Venn diagram of them, I think you’d find a significant overlap. The term “elite” has acquired a bit of a stench in recent years, but its usual meaning just connotes being “the choice part,” a “socially superior group,” or a “powerful minority group” (Webster’s). Those are objective factors signifying strength or quality. However, our politics of envy have turned them into negatives. I think the Founders viewed tribalism — or “factions” or “parties” in the parlance of 1787 — as the greater threat to the republican government they envisioned. See Federalist 9 and 10. I share that view, antiquated as it may seem.


True -

But there is also a “liberal” elite (which overlaps almost exactly with the political elite) that has more than earned the acrimony

I’m nit jealous... I have never been a club joiner

But when I deal with my political-cognoscenti colleagues I make sure to use the most down-home redneck accent that I can muster

I guess it’s cunts I have a problem with... and we are ALL cunts. I even have a problem with myself. That’s why when I retire I’m buying a SMALL boat and sailing around the world .. alone


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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby Ivytalk » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:51 am

CID1990 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Elitism does take a number of forms, but if you did a Venn diagram of them, I think you’d find a significant overlap. The term “elite” has acquired a bit of a stench in recent years, but its usual meaning just connotes being “the choice part,” a “socially superior group,” or a “powerful minority group” (Webster’s). Those are objective factors signifying strength or quality. However, our politics of envy have turned them into negatives. I think the Founders viewed tribalism — or “factions” or “parties” in the parlance of 1787 — as the greater threat to the republican government they envisioned. See Federalist 9 and 10. I share that view, antiquated as it may seem.


True -

But there is also a “liberal” elite (which overlaps almost exactly with the political elite) that has more than earned the acrimony

I’m nit jealous... I have never been a club joiner

But when I deal with my political-cognoscenti colleagues I make sure to use the most down-home redneck accent that I can muster

I guess it’s cunts I have a problem with... and we are ALL cunts. I even have a problem with myself. That’s why when I retire I’m buying a SMALL boat and sailing around the world .. alone


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You won’t take that annoying Swedish Greta chick with you? :lol:

You just reminded me that it’s time to change my siggy. :thumb:
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby AZGrizFan » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:45 am

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Too nuanced for you?


If by nuanced you mean dumb....yes.


OK. Let me explain it for the mentally challenged:

Definition: Tribalism is the state of being organized by, or advocating for, tribes or tribal lifestyles. Human evolution has primarily occurred in small groups, as opposed to mass societies, and humans naturally maintain a social network. In popular culture, tribalism may also refer to a way of thinking or behaving in which people are loyal to their social group above all else, or, derogatorily, a type of discrimination or animosity based upon group differences.

GROUP DIFFERENCES. IDENTITY POLITICS. TRIBAL WARFARE. It's what Donks DO. It's their specialty. Whether it's race, sex, income, gender, religion, political affiliation, it makes no difference what GROUP or TRIBE you're in, Donks entire line of thinking is driving wedges between those groups. Us vs them. Left vs Right. Poor vs Rich. Gays vs Straight. Proletariat vs Elite (hmmmm)….They literally THRIVE on tribal warfare.

Definition: Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with an intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience—are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others. The term elitism may be used to describe a situation in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people. Oppositions of elitism include anti-elitism, egalitarianism, populism, and political theory of pluralism.

Wealth. Intellect. Experience. More areas where Donks tend to want to divide into like groups and get one side to attack the other. The irony is, Donks believe themselves to be the intellectual ELITE. I mean, only stupid redneck deplorables would vote for Donald Trump, right?

Is any of this sinking in?
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby CID1990 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:13 am

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
True -

But there is also a “liberal” elite (which overlaps almost exactly with the political elite) that has more than earned the acrimony

I’m nit jealous... I have never been a club joiner

But when I deal with my political-cognoscenti colleagues I make sure to use the most down-home redneck accent that I can muster

I guess it’s cunts I have a problem with... and we are ALL cunts. I even have a problem with myself. That’s why when I retire I’m buying a SMALL boat and sailing around the world .. alone


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You won’t take that annoying Swedish Greta chick with you? :lol:

You just reminded me that it’s time to change my siggy. :thumb:


When she’s 20?

Yeah I’d tap that.

I have a LOW bar


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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby kalm » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:24 am

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
If by nuanced you mean dumb....yes.


OK. Let me explain it for the mentally challenged:

Definition: Tribalism is the state of being organized by, or advocating for, tribes or tribal lifestyles. Human evolution has primarily occurred in small groups, as opposed to mass societies, and humans naturally maintain a social network. In popular culture, tribalism may also refer to a way of thinking or behaving in which people are loyal to their social group above all else, or, derogatorily, a type of discrimination or animosity based upon group differences.

GROUP DIFFERENCES. IDENTITY POLITICS. TRIBAL WARFARE. It's what Donks DO. It's their specialty. Whether it's race, sex, income, gender, religion, political affiliation, it makes no difference what GROUP or TRIBE you're in, Donks entire line of thinking is driving wedges between those groups. Us vs them. Left vs Right. Poor vs Rich. Gays vs Straight. Proletariat vs Elite (hmmmm)….They literally THRIVE on tribal warfare.

Definition: Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with an intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience—are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others. The term elitism may be used to describe a situation in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people. Oppositions of elitism include anti-elitism, egalitarianism, populism, and political theory of pluralism.

Wealth. Intellect. Experience. More areas where Donks tend to want to divide into like groups and get one side to attack the other. The irony is, Donks believe themselves to be the intellectual ELITE. I mean, only stupid redneck deplorables would vote for Donald Trump, right?

Is any of this sinking in?


You’re so close to getting the point of this exercise and for that, I’m proud of you! :clap:

Here’s a short article that supports what you’re saying...

https://babylonbee.com/news/report-lots ... ny-day-now
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Re: Lola Versus Elitism and the Moneygoround.

Postby css75 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 pm

Tribalism is the worst of the 2 as they are intentionally separating themselves.


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