RIP White Christian America

[kalm]

What’s graceful about letting that guy into heaven vs. a non-believer?

Did you watch the video?

Because the rules of Christianity club say you must accept Jesus and believe he atoned for your sins. One has met the rules and the other hasn't.

Now with that being said, I can't comment on Copeland's "saved" status, but would point out when Jesus told those that while they claimed to be Christian ,"he did not know them". Meaning they said they were Christian, but weren't. If it makes you any more comfortable, my wife and I rolled our eyes over Copeland.

So how about answering my question?

Where do you draw the heaven threshold?

That’s not graceful...at all.

Where do I draw the heaven line? I don’t know. Is there a heaven? I believe in good. If god is good then and there is a heaven above then I’m certain there’s no prior to arrival Jesus as savior acceptance required. It will be more like

Jesus: “I told ya”

Kalm: “yeah, I was wrong...you da man. Here’s the five bucks.”

Jesus: “that’s alright, happens all the time. come on in. Btw, there’s no gluten intolerance here so grab a Fullers ESB and a bowl of pasta.”

Kalm: “sweet!”

[SeattleGriz]

Because the rules of Christianity club say you must accept Jesus and believe he atoned for your sins. One has met the rules and the other hasn't.

Now with that being said, I can't comment on Copeland's "saved" status, but would point out when Jesus told those that while they claimed to be Christian ,"he did not know them". Meaning they said they were Christian, but weren't. If it makes you any more comfortable, my wife and I rolled our eyes over Copeland.

So how about answering my question?

Where do you draw the heaven threshold?

That’s not graceful...at all.

Where do I draw the heaven line? I don’t know. Is there a heaven? I believe in good. If god is good then and there is a heaven above then I’m certain there’s no prior to arrival Jesus as savior acceptance required. It will be more like

Jesus: “I told ya”

Kalm: “yeah, I was wrong...you da man. Here’s the five bucks.”

Jesus: “that’s alright, happens all the time. come on in. Btw, there’s no gluten intolerance here so grab a Fullers ESB and a bowl of pasta.”

Kalm: “sweet!”

Of course you and CID could just order the Whopper, but you would rather tell Burger King how to make a Big Mac. Lol.

[Ivytalk]

That’s not graceful...at all.

Where do I draw the heaven line? I don’t know. Is there a heaven? I believe in good. If god is good then and there is a heaven above then I’m certain there’s no prior to arrival Jesus as savior acceptance required. It will be more like

Jesus: “I told ya”

Kalm: “yeah, I was wrong...you da man. Here’s the five bucks.”

Jesus: “that’s alright, happens all the time. come on in. Btw, there’s no gluten intolerance here so grab a Fullers ESB and a bowl of pasta.”

Kalm: “sweet!”

Of course you and CID could just order the Whopper, but you would rather tell Burger King how to make a Big Mac. Lol.

Again, Rule #1.

[SeattleGriz]

Of course you and CID could just order the Whopper, but you would rather tell Burger King how to make a Big Mac. Lol.

Again, Rule #1.

Didn't know anyone was following this thread anymore!

CID called Christianity the Burger King of religions. I was saying they could easily order the Salvation Whopper, but instead, want Christianity to make something totally different.

Why won't they try the Whopper?

[Ivytalk]

Again, Rule #1.

Didn't know anyone was following this thread anymore!

CID called Christianity the Burger King of religions. I was saying they could easily order the Salvation Whopper, but instead, want Christianity to make something totally different.

Why won't they try the Whopper?

CID was invoking the “have it your way” analogy. Kind of subtle, but I get it. Joel Osteen types are this kind of Christian, as were the Robert Schuller types before him. Comfortable Christianity that helps people feel good by doing better economically, not by doing good to their fellow man. Their services are boosterish pep rallies, not spiritual awakenings.

[CID1990]

Again, Rule #1.

Didn't know anyone was following this thread anymore!

CID called Christianity the Burger King of religions. I was saying they could easily order the Salvation Whopper, but instead, want Christianity to make something totally different.

Why won't they try the Whopper?

Why shouldn’t I want that?

There are more denominations of Christianity than all the other world religions combined

Surely there must be a denomination somewhere that will allow me to disappear little boys into landfills and still get into heaven as long as I make nice and say I’m sorry?

Oh wait... that’s pretty much all of them


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[houndawg]

Again, Rule #1.

Didn't know anyone was following this thread anymore!

CID called Christianity the Burger King of religions. I was saying they could easily order the Salvation Whopper, but instead, want Christianity to make something totally different.

Why won't they try the Whopper?

You wouldn't need to ask if you've seen who is out there selling it.

[Ibanez]

This was one of my earliest turnoffs with Christianity -

All the un-Christianlike Christians


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un-Christianlike Christians are what happens when salvation is attainable for everyone, not just those that pass a purity test.

That is why salvation isn't a purity test and shouldn't be treated as one. It's not enough to believe and feel good about yourself because you sit in a building listening to some sinner telling you to be better.

Works of mercy are required.


But then again, what is your motivation for completing those works of mercy? Is it free-will, a desire to do good OR a desire to please the big guy in the sky and secure your reservation behind that gated community in the sky.


Speaking of heaven, why is it gated? Who are they keeping out? Those kids that keep using the pool after hours?

[SunCoastBlueHen]

un-Christianlike Christians are what happens when salvation is attainable for everyone, not just those that pass a purity test.

That is why salvation isn't a purity test and shouldn't be treated as one. It's not enough to believe and feel good about yourself because you sit in a building listening to some sinner telling you to be better.

Works of mercy are required.


But then again, what is your motivation for completing those works of mercy? Is it free-will, a desire to do good OR a desire to please the big guy in the sky and secure your reservation behind that gated community in the sky.


Speaking of heaven, why is it gated? Who are they keeping out? Those kids that keep using the pool after hours?

I don't profess to know who or what God is, but I'm pretty sure he is not some dude with a beard living in a gated community in the clouds. We personify God because that is what our feeble minds can understand.

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[Ibanez]

Wait. What?

If you want to be an opinion leader in this forum, rule #1 is “make sense.”

Salvation is available to everyone regardless of how they lived their lives. If a "test" was required, then you would have a whole lot less people qualifying.

I don't remember Jesus telling the thief on the cross next to him, that he wouldn't make the cut.

Another interesting question - if crucifixion was primarily for slaves, enemies of the state (like "Jesus") and perps of atrocious crimes, why would simple thieves be up there?


Early Christians would've known that.

[Ibanez]

That is why salvation isn't a purity test and shouldn't be treated as one. It's not enough to believe and feel good about yourself because you sit in a building listening to some sinner telling you to be better.

Works of mercy are required.


But then again, what is your motivation for completing those works of mercy? Is it free-will, a desire to do good OR a desire to please the big guy in the sky and secure your reservation behind that gated community in the sky.


Speaking of heaven, why is it gated? Who are they keeping out? Those kids that keep using the pool after hours?

I don't profess to know who or what God is, but I'm pretty sure he is not some dude with a beard living in a gated community in the clouds. We personify God because that is what our feeble minds can understand.

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BINGO

[Ivytalk]

That is why salvation isn't a purity test and shouldn't be treated as one. It's not enough to believe and feel good about yourself because you sit in a building listening to some sinner telling you to be better.

Works of mercy are required.


But then again, what is your motivation for completing those works of mercy? Is it free-will, a desire to do good OR a desire to please the big guy in the sky and secure your reservation behind that gated community in the sky.


Speaking of heaven, why is it gated? Who are they keeping out? Those kids that keep using the pool after hours?

I don't profess to know who or what God is, but I'm pretty sure he is not some dude with a beard living in a gated community in the clouds. We personify God because that is what our feeble minds can understand.

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Great post.

Although I have to admit that I picture God as He appears in Holy Grail.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I don't profess to know who or what God is, but I'm pretty sure he is not some dude with a beard living in a gated community in the clouds. We personify God because that is what our feeble minds can understand.

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Great post.

Although I have to admit that I picture God as He appears in Holy Grail.

Yeah, the angry SOB in the sky kind of lines up nicely with a lot of what's in the bible.

[kalm]

I don't profess to know who or what God is, but I'm pretty sure he is not some dude with a beard living in a gated community in the clouds. We personify God because that is what our feeble minds can understand.

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Great post.

Although I have to admit that I picture God as He appears in Holy Grail.

So Sir SeaGriz the Pure?

[89Hen]

Dude...
I only go after Fundamentalists and that's all I've ever really focused on around here

Is that so?

[AZGrizFan]

I can't help but picture God as Morgan Freeman, especially after Bruce Almighty.

[andy7171]

That is why salvation isn't a purity test and shouldn't be treated as one. It's not enough to believe and feel good about yourself because you sit in a building listening to some sinner telling you to be better.

Works of mercy are required.


But then again, what is your motivation for completing those works of mercy? Is it free-will, a desire to do good OR a desire to please the big guy in the sky and secure your reservation behind that gated community in the sky.


Speaking of heaven, why is it gated? Who are they keeping out? Those kids that keep using the pool after hours?

I don't profess to know who or what God is, but I'm pretty sure he is not some dude with a beard living in a gated community in the clouds. We personify God because that is what our feeble minds can understand.

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^ this

[UNI88]

That is why salvation isn't a purity test and shouldn't be treated as one. It's not enough to believe and feel good about yourself because you sit in a building listening to some sinner telling you to be better.

Works of mercy are required.

But then again, what is your motivation for completing those works of mercy? Is it free-will, a desire to do good OR a desire to please the big guy in the sky and secure your reservation behind that gated community in the sky.

Speaking of heaven, why is it gated? Who are they keeping out? Those kids that keep using the pool after hours?

I don't profess to know who or what God is, but I'm pretty sure he is not some dude with a beard living in a gated community in the clouds. We personify God because that is what our feeble minds can understand.

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But if he is, you know he made Hell pay for the gate and fence!

[SeattleGriz]

Great post.

Although I have to admit that I picture God as He appears in Holy Grail.

So Sir SeaGriz the Pure?

Ha! I wish. I did get a chuckle this morning though, as I was coming up to the last intersection before getting on the interstate, where I started yelling at the guy looking around when he had the green turn arrow.

It was 5am in the morning. Didn't take long to stumble!

[UNI88]

Me too.

SG, have you really accepted Jesus if you only follow his teachings one day a week? I would argue that you're a hypocrite and God will see through that bullsh!t when your time comes.

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I haven't said anything about how I, or anyone else should follow Jesus, but it makes sense that you would try to be as decent as possible.

This whole discussion started when Cleets said that in America, many people were able to simply say they were Christian. I agreed, but said that I hoped the bar would be at least to accept Jesus in order to call yourself a Christian.

According to the Bible, no man or woman can by themselves, meet the 600+ laws that God requires you to keep, in order to be in His presence. Only Jesus was able to fulfill all those laws and then gave everyone who wanted to accept Him a chance. If you don't want to accept Jesus, that is your right, but then you aren't Christian then either.

As to how I live? I'm pretty easy going, so that helps, but consistently look at myself and wonder if my actions are consistent with being a decent person. Often refer to myself as the worst of Christians because I realize how far I fall short each day. Daily I'm reminded that I couldn't meet the 600+ law standard and am grateful Jesus did it for me. So, as someone who is grateful, I try to do the right thing.

For example, I still have trouble with that internal monologue that screams out at the guy staring at the green light, three cars up, saying "go fucker!"

That's why I often jokingly say that the day I get that under control will be a big step for me in removing the board from my eye.

To your point though, where does God draw the line as to who gets in and who doesn't?

SG, I reread my post and it would appear that I was talking about you literally and that was not my intention. I was talking about the 1 day a week Christians and it was not intended as it might have been read. Sorry!

[kalm]

So Sir SeaGriz the Pure?

Ha! I wish. I did get a chuckle this morning though, as I was coming up to the last intersection before getting on the interstate, where I started yelling at the guy looking around when he had the green turn arrow.

It was 5am in the morning. Didn't take long to stumble!

See? Accepting Jesus is the easy part.

[89Hen]

For example, I still have trouble with that internal monologue that screams out at the guy staring at the green light, three cars up, saying "go fucker!"

You and me both brother... except mine isn't internal.

[Ivytalk]

Great post.

Although I have to admit that I picture God as He appears in Holy Grail.

Yeah, the angry SOB in the sky kind of lines up nicely with a lot of what's in the bible.

I just chuckled about the scene from History of the World Part I where Comicus (Mel Brooks) is doing his schtick for the Emperor (Dom DeLuise): “Those Christians are so poor ( “how poor are they?”) that they have only one god!”

[kalm]

Yeah, the angry SOB in the sky kind of lines up nicely with a lot of what's in the bible.

I just chuckled about the scene from History of the World Part I where Comicus (Mel Brooks) is doing his schtick for the Emperor (Dom DeLuise): “Those Christians are so poor ( “how poor are they?”) that they have only one god!”

The world needs more stand up philosophers.

[Ibanez]

I don't profess to know who or what God is, but I'm pretty sure he is not some dude with a beard living in a gated community in the clouds. We personify God because that is what our feeble minds can understand.

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But if he is, you know he made Hell pay for the gate and fence!

Well yeah...they have the hottest forge capable to make Salvation-grade Steel.