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At least we're only a flawed democracy.



https://www.eiu.com/topic/democracy-index

Here come the "We're a Republic, Not a Democracy!" folks.

∞∞∞ wrote:Here come the "We're a Republic, Not a Democracy!" folks.

Gawdammit, Trip!

Lol. Calling canada more of a democracy than the US invalidates this entire article.

AZGrizFan wrote:Lol. Calling canada more of a democracy than the US invalidates this entire article.

Let me guess, because we're more free-market, it makes us more democratic?

I don’t take issue with where we are ranked.

I do take issue with where other countries are ranked relative to us.

For example, Thailand is also rated as a flawed democracy, albeit lower than the US. But to place Thailand anywhere near the US in terms of democratic practices is laughable. They have been a military junta for most of the last decade, they have had several military coups, they are in the process of outlawing an upstart political party comprised mostly of millennial progressives, and they are emerging from the latest period of military rule as a veiled absolute monarchy. Oh and of course there’s the whole lese majeste law that will get Thais disappeared for violating it.

There us a LOT of daylight between Thailand and the US but you wouldn’t know it based on the graphic.

Change the metric to personal liberty instead of democracy and that map will look a bit different.


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∞∞∞ wrote:Here come the "We're a Republic, Not a Democracy!" folks.

It's true. If someone isn't smart enough to know what type of country they reside in, then I really don't want that person voting. Though one can get confused b/c the US does employ concepts of both a constitutional republic and constitutional democracy. At the time of our founding, democracy was understood to be a form of republicanism.

Also, from our Constitution; Article IV Section 4

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government

Ibanez wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote:Here come the "We're a Republic, Not a Democracy!" folks.

It's true. If someone isn't smart enough to know what type of country they reside in, then I really don't want that person voting. Though one can get confused b/c the US does employ concepts of both a constitutional republic and constitutional democracy. At the time of our founding, democracy was understood to be a form of republicanism.

Also, from our Constitution; Article IV Section 4

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government

It's confused by both sides. Democracy has become a dirty word to many on the right.

We are a constitutionally limited democratic republic.

AZGrizFan wrote:Lol. Calling canada more of a democracy than the US invalidates this entire article.

I don't know enough about their government but I would like to see an comparison.

kalm wrote:

Ibanez wrote: It's true. If someone isn't smart enough to know what type of country they reside in, then I really don't want that person voting. Though one can get confused b/c the US does employ concepts of both a constitutional republic and constitutional democracy. At the time of our founding, democracy was understood to be a form of republicanism.

Also, from our Constitution; Article IV Section 4

It's confused by both sides. Democracy has become a dirty word to many on the right.

We are a constitutionally limited democratic republic.

But we aren't. A constitutionally limited republic is a more apt description of the US.

Ibanez wrote:

kalm wrote:
It's confused by both sides. Democracy has become a dirty word to many on the right.

We are a constitutionally limited democratic republic.

But we aren't. A constitutionally limited republic is a more apt description of the US.

"democratic" is simply a descriptor.

Try it out this way...

"The US is not a democracy.

“Real liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of a dictatorship.” - Alexander Hamilton

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49.” - Thomas Jefferson

'Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” - James Madison

"Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” - John Adams

The US has been dropping on indices like this since Trump has been elected, but him being elected is the most characteristically democratic thing maybe the US has done.

Most everyone in the political class hates him except people using him to make a name for themselves, yet they can't do a thing to Trump and Trump can't really do any real damage to the system in spite of what some are saying.

93henfan wrote:“Real liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of a dictatorship.” - Alexander Hamilton

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49.” - Thomas Jefferson

'Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” - James Madison

"Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” - John Adams

That about sums it up

∞∞∞ wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:Lol. Calling canada more of a democracy than the US invalidates this entire article.

Let me guess, because we're more free-market, it makes us more democratic?

Guess again, fucktard.

kalm wrote:

Ibanez wrote: But we aren't. A constitutionally limited republic is a more apt description of the US.

"democratic" is simply a descriptor.

Try it out this way...

"The US is not a democracy.

Then your OP is a nonstarter.

The Democracy Index is based on five categories: electoral process and pluralism; civil liberties; the functioning of government; political participation; and political culture.

I'd like to see the numbers (subscription) but I'm guessing the US gets low marks on participation and culture, but of the five categories, those are the two that are more feel good than anything.

Those authoritarian regimes have really done wonders for the African continent and the M/E.

93henfan wrote:“Real liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of a dictatorship.” - Alexander Hamilton

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49.” - Thomas Jefferson

'Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” - James Madison

"Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” - John Adams

Living in a state with a prolific initiative culture I’m no fan of direct democracy either.

Here’s what I’m referring to:


de·moc·ra·cy
/dəˈmäkrəsē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

Political outcomes in this country are more determined by money and entrenched power of the few than representing the interests of the people. That’s not very democratic or free.

AZGrizFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
"democratic" is simply a descriptor.

Try it out this way...

"The US is not a democracy.

Then your OP is a nonstarter.

I posted a study. Yet here you are.

kalm wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Then your OP is a nonstarter.

I posted a study. Yet here you are.

Yes. Here I am. Pointing out your hypocrisy.

CID1990 wrote:I don’t take issue with where we are ranked.

I do take issue with where other countries are ranked relative to us.

For example, Thailand is also rated as a flawed democracy, albeit lower than the US. But to place Thailand anywhere near the US in terms of democratic practices is laughable. They have been a military junta for most of the last decade, they have had several military coups, they are in the process of outlawing an upstart political party comprised mostly of millennial progressives, and they are emerging from the latest period of military rule as a veiled absolute monarchy. Oh and of course there’s the whole lese majeste law that will get Thais disappeared for violating it.

There us a LOT of daylight between Thailand and the US but you wouldn’t know it based on the graphic.

Change the metric to personal liberty instead of democracy and that map will look a bit different.


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Don't let details get in the way of a graphic...its a graphic, believe it or else!!!

Oh and lol at Mehico only being a "flawed" democracy. That place is essentially a failed state ruled by the cartels.

AZGrizFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
I posted a study. Yet here you are.

Yes. Here I am. Pointing out your hypocrisy.

Okee dokee.

SDHornet wrote:Oh and lol at Mehico only being a "flawed" democracy. That place is essentially a failed state ruled by the cartels.

No. We're exactly the same.