Coronavirus COVID-19

[SDHornet]

We should be learning more about seasonality and lack thereof soon. I saw a guy with the group that does the IHME modeling today. He said a factor i them predicting 363,269 US COVID-19 deaths by January 1 right now is the belief that there is indeed seasonality and it will get worse as it gets colder.

Of course another factor is that we have a bunch of people in the population who are idiots and won't change engage in the behaviors necessary to minimize risk.

IHME has literally ZERO credibility at this point. LESS than zero, actually.

JSO literally just referred to an IHME study? This late into the China Virus game?

Bruh

[AZGrizFan]

IHME has literally ZERO credibility at this point. LESS than zero, actually.

JSO literally just referred to an IHME study? This late into the China Virus game?

Bruh

But....but....but.....they have such neato graphs and stuff!

[Gil Dobie]

Minnesota total active cases drop again today.

[GannonFan]

As with all things science, you only have consensus when you don't ask enough scientists. Growing movement in the science circles that mirrors what many have said previously - lockdowns and other measures to curb Covid may be worse than the disease. This Great Barrington Declaration (Great Barrington is the town in Vermont where it was issued) calls for any lockdowns (full or partial) to be lifted and let the young population proceed as normal (not sure about the masks but otherwise go about their business) and to isolate the older population which is extremely more likely to have negative effects from Covid. Didn't see any MAGA hats so I don't think they can just be dismissed as Trumpers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54442386

[Ibanez]

This week, President Donald Trump extolled the cutting-edge coronavirus treatments he received as “miracles coming down from God.” If that’s true, then God employs cell lines derived from human fetal tissue.

The emergency antibody that Trump received last week was developed with the use of a cell line originally derived from abortion tissue, according to Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, the company that developed the experimental drug.

The Trump administration has taken an increasingly firm line against medical research using fetal tissue from abortions. For example, when it moved in 2019 to curtail the ability of the National Institutes of Health to fund such research, supporters hailed a “major pro-life victory” and thanked Trump personally for taking decisive action against what they called the “outrageous and disgusting” practice of “experimentation using baby body parts.”

But when the president faced a deadly encounter with covid-19, his administration raised no objections over the fact that the new drugs also relied on fetal cells, and anti-abortion campaigners were silent too. Most likely, their hypocrisy was unwitting. Many types of medical and vaccine research employ supplies of cells originally acquired from abortion tissue. It would have taken an expert to realize that was the case with Trump’s treatment.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/1 ... -abortion/

[kalm]

As with all things science, you only have consensus when you don't ask enough scientists. Growing movement in the science circles that mirrors what many have said previously - lockdowns and other measures to curb Covid may be worse than the disease. This Great Barrington Declaration (Great Barrington is the town in Vermont where it was issued) calls for any lockdowns (full or partial) to be lifted and let the young population proceed as normal (not sure about the masks but otherwise go about their business) and to isolate the older population which is extremely more likely to have negative effects from Covid. Didn't see any MAGA hats so I don't think they can just be dismissed as Trumpers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54442386

“Any lockdowns (full or partial)” sounds political/emotional rather than science based.

Reduce the numbers to manageable then lift restrictions. Case in point, Wisconsin, which is opening up a temporary hospital built in the spring due to hospitalizations and exponential growth.

[GannonFan]

As with all things science, you only have consensus when you don't ask enough scientists. Growing movement in the science circles that mirrors what many have said previously - lockdowns and other measures to curb Covid may be worse than the disease. This Great Barrington Declaration (Great Barrington is the town in Vermont where it was issued) calls for any lockdowns (full or partial) to be lifted and let the young population proceed as normal (not sure about the masks but otherwise go about their business) and to isolate the older population which is extremely more likely to have negative effects from Covid. Didn't see any MAGA hats so I don't think they can just be dismissed as Trumpers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54442386

“Any lockdowns (full or partial)” sounds political/emotional rather than science based.

Reduce the numbers to manageable then lift restrictions. Case in point, Wisconsin, which is opening up a temporary hospital built in the spring due to hospitalizations and exponential growth.

Which points to the idea that we have and have had enough hospital capacity to handle these surges. Even in NYC, at the start of all of this when hospitalizations were at their highest (especially when we didn't even know how to treat this) we didn't exceed capacity - temporary hospitals throughout NYC sat idle. Capacity is flexible and we've been able to deal with that, and you would think the worst is behind us in terms of hospitalizations.

As for lockdowns, if we haven't learned they need to be far less onerous than we've done previously then we're not being truthful. Masks, social distancing, and diligent cleaning, along with carefully controlling access to retirements homes and other elderly care locations, are far and away the most important things to do to stem spread of the virus. Capriciously deciding that one business can stay open but another next to it can't was and is a haphazard approach that makes it look like you're doing something, but in reality has little impact on abating the virus and instead creates a haves/have not scenario between industries that get favored status and those that don't. I don't know why we can't, even at this point, admit to the unintended but significant impact decisions made early on that, in retrospect and now with more knowledge of the virus, we should never make again. Just as Trump is a fool for still pushing back against mask use, the other side (and throw Biden into this since he's become pro-lockdown again) is just as foolish for not owning up to the inadequacy of that solution.

[UNI88]

“Any lockdowns (full or partial)” sounds political/emotional rather than science based.

Reduce the numbers to manageable then lift restrictions. Case in point, Wisconsin, which is opening up a temporary hospital built in the spring due to hospitalizations and exponential growth.

Which points to the idea that we have and have had enough hospital capacity to handle these surges. Even in NYC, at the start of all of this when hospitalizations were at their highest (especially when we didn't even know how to treat this) we didn't exceed capacity - temporary hospitals throughout NYC sat idle. Capacity is flexible and we've been able to deal with that, and you would think the worst is behind us in terms of hospitalizations.

As for lockdowns, if we haven't learned they need to be far less onerous than we've done previously then we're not being truthful. Masks, social distancing, and diligent cleaning, along with carefully controlling access to retirements homes and other elderly care locations, are far and away the most important things to do to stem spread of the virus. Capriciously deciding that one business can stay open but another next to it can't was and is a haphazard approach that makes it look like you're doing something, but in reality has little impact on abating the virus and instead creates a haves/have not scenario between industries that get favored status and those that don't. I don't know why we can't, even at this point, admit to the unintended but significant impact decisions made early on that, in retrospect and now with more knowledge of the virus, we should never make again. Just as Trump is a fool for still pushing back against mask use, the other side (and throw Biden into this since he's become pro-lockdown again) is just as foolish for not owning up to the inadequacy of that solution.

Ganny's nailing it.

[89Hen]

As for lockdowns, if we haven't learned they need to be far less onerous than we've done previously then we're not being truthful. Masks, social distancing, and diligent cleaning, along with carefully controlling access to retirements homes and other elderly care locations, are far and away the most important things to do to stem spread of the virus. Capriciously deciding that one business can stay open but another next to it can't was and is a haphazard approach that makes it look like you're doing something, but in reality has little impact on abating the virus and instead creates a haves/have not scenario between industries that get favored status and those that don't.

Anecdotal, but I still only directly know two people (married couple) that are not college students that have contracted Covid and they had it in March. A couple friends kids have tested positive since going back to college. I've been to grocery stores, liquor stores, Home Depot, restaurants, golf courses, barber shop, banks, convenience stores... all multiple times in various locations in DE, MD, VA, DC, PA. Same goes for all my friends. Even went to a wedding with 100 guests and I really don't feel like I'm pressing my luck.

[UNI88]

As for lockdowns, if we haven't learned they need to be far less onerous than we've done previously then we're not being truthful. Masks, social distancing, and diligent cleaning, along with carefully controlling access to retirements homes and other elderly care locations, are far and away the most important things to do to stem spread of the virus. Capriciously deciding that one business can stay open but another next to it can't was and is a haphazard approach that makes it look like you're doing something, but in reality has little impact on abating the virus and instead creates a haves/have not scenario between industries that get favored status and those that don't.

Anecdotal, but I still only directly know two people (married couple) that are not college students that have contracted Covid and they had it in March. A couple friends kids have tested positive since going back to college. I've been to grocery stores, liquor stores, Home Depot, restaurants, golf courses, barber shop, banks, convenience stores... all multiple times in various locations in DE, MD, VA, DC, PA. Same goes for all my friends. Even went to a wedding with 100 guests and I really don't feel like I'm pressing my luck.

Is that a sign that COVID isn't a big deal or that "masks, social distancing, and diligent cleaning, along with carefully controlling access to retirements homes and other elderly care locations" is working pretty well?

[Skjellyfetti]

[kalm]

Anecdotal, but I still only directly know two people (married couple) that are not college students that have contracted Covid and they had it in March. A couple friends kids have tested positive since going back to college. I've been to grocery stores, liquor stores, Home Depot, restaurants, golf courses, barber shop, banks, convenience stores... all multiple times in various locations in DE, MD, VA, DC, PA. Same goes for all my friends. Even went to a wedding with 100 guests and I really don't feel like I'm pressing my luck.

Is that a sign that COVID isn't a big deal or that "masks, social distancing, and diligent cleaning, along with carefully controlling access to retirements homes and other elderly care locations" is working pretty well?

It’s a big deal. Prevention is helping.

I knew one person my age who it killed in a week early on. I know of 4 more who’ve had it...all symptomatic. My brother in law tested negative twice but had all the symptoms. I don’t know any non-symptomatic people.

If enough people took it seriously and acted responsibly like Gannon suggests, we’d be under 10,000 new cases per day instead of climbing back up towards 40,000. We’d have around 40,000 total deaths instead of 210,000. It’s just painfully apparent that we’re either collectively too stupid or two selfish.

Heck...our nation’s executive branch and military leaders probably wouldn’t be under quarantine.

[89Hen]

Anecdotal, but I still only directly know two people (married couple) that are not college students that have contracted Covid and they had it in March. A couple friends kids have tested positive since going back to college. I've been to grocery stores, liquor stores, Home Depot, restaurants, golf courses, barber shop, banks, convenience stores... all multiple times in various locations in DE, MD, VA, DC, PA. Same goes for all my friends. Even went to a wedding with 100 guests and I really don't feel like I'm pressing my luck.

Is that a sign that COVID isn't a big deal or that "masks, social distancing, and diligent cleaning, along with carefully controlling access to retirements homes and other elderly care locations" is working pretty well?

Both. I was pretty much agreeing with what GF posted. It's a big deal for reckless folks... kind of like life.

[89Hen]

It’s just painfully apparent that we’re either collectively too stupid or two selfish.

You're just figuring that out now?

One of the most underrated scenes of a newer movie.

[AZGrizFan]

It’s just painfully apparent that we’re either collectively too stupid or two selfish.

How does one use *too* correctly and incorrectly in the same sentence?

[kalm]

It’s just painfully apparent that we’re either collectively too stupid or two selfish.

How does one use *too* correctly and incorrectly in the same sentence?

Harvard of the Palouse, Baby!

[89Hen]

It’s just painfully apparent that we’re either collectively too stupid or two selfish.

How does one use *too* correctly and incorrectly in the same sentence?

A. He went to a directional school.
2. He was really trying to we are either one, too stupid or two, selfish.
c. Fingers moving to quickly too use the correct one

[GannonFan]

Is that a sign that COVID isn't a big deal or that "masks, social distancing, and diligent cleaning, along with carefully controlling access to retirements homes and other elderly care locations" is working pretty well?

It’s just painfully apparent that we’re either collectively too stupid or two selfish.

It's both, clearly. We've never really been an intelligent nation, or a nation full of Rhodes Scholars (at least back when it was okay to be a Rhodes Scholar, certainly taboo today). People generally don't care about each other - as evidenced by the way that zealots on either side of the political aisle talk about folks on the opposite side - and we're pretty stupid in general.

We have a buffoon in the White House who can't get it through his head that it's okay to wear a mask and now claims that God wanted him to have COVID. We have close to 50 buffoons in various governor's mansions who, in the absence of being told what to do by Washington fumbled through the pandemic, leaving vulnerable thousands of retirement homes and elderly care locations that have resulted in a significant chunk of the mortalities to date, and playing darts with which businesses could stay open and which had to close, with no real rationale for why. By doing so the President and at least a vast number of governors have forfeited their chance to be believed and will continue to have to fend off well-founded resistance to their either lack of guidance on proper protocols or to their overly clumsy and oppressive restrictions.

Of course this would've been handled better if we had a President who was up to the task, but it's also painfully obvious that the bench of potential up and comers for the job of President was pretty empty as well.

[Gil Dobie]

Is that a sign that COVID isn't a big deal or that "masks, social distancing, and diligent cleaning, along with carefully controlling access to retirements homes and other elderly care locations" is working pretty well?

It’s a big deal. Prevention is helping.

I knew one person my age who it killed in a week early on. I know of 4 more who’ve had it...all symptomatic. My brother in law tested negative twice but had all the symptoms. I don’t know any non-symptomatic people.

If enough people took it seriously and acted responsibly like Gannon suggests, we’d be under 10,000 new cases per day instead of climbing back up towards 40,000. We’d have around 40,000 total deaths instead of 210,000. It’s just painfully apparent that we’re either collectively too stupid or two selfish.

Heck...our nation’s executive branch and military leaders probably wouldn’t be under quarantine.

Back on the farm we work mask in the grain bins, to prevent grain dust from getting in our lungs. I tried it once without the mask, just once.

[Ibanez]

Flip Flop of the Week - Trump

Inching closer to Democrats’ demands, President Trump and his aides on Friday will offer Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) a $1.8 trillion coronavirus relief package, sources said, as the president urged the negotiators to “go big.”

....Trump has sent conflicting messages on his position on stimulus over the past three days. On Tuesday, the president abruptly called off the talks between his White House and Pelosi until after the Nov. 3 election, accusing Democrats of negotiating in “bad faith” and seeking “bailouts” for states poorly-run by Democrats, a move that sent stocks tumbling.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ef-package

[AZGrizFan]

Flip Flop of the Week - Trump

Inching closer to Democrats’ demands, President Trump and his aides on Friday will offer Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) a $1.8 trillion coronavirus relief package, sources said, as the president urged the negotiators to “go big.”

....Trump has sent conflicting messages on his position on stimulus over the past three days. On Tuesday, the president abruptly called off the talks between his White House and Pelosi until after the Nov. 3 election, accusing Democrats of negotiating in “bad faith” and seeking “bailouts” for states poorly-run by Democrats, a move that sent stocks tumbling.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ef-package

It’s called negotiating, Mark.

Art of the deal and all that BS.

[HI54UNI]

First, masks were mandated on July 9th. The mandate was working so well it was extended a month later. It kept working, so it was extended again. After more huge success; you guessed it…extended again

The mask vaccine is working, people. Wear a damn mask.

[UNI88]

Flip Flop of the Week - Trump

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ef-package

It’s called negotiating, Mark.

Art of the deal and all that BS.

Trump says no stimulus before the election, the market tanks and Trump's reelection outlook takes a hit. Trump has to come back to the table with less leverage than he had before the statement. That's losing at Chutes & Ladders not winning at 4D Chess.

[Ibanez]

Flip Flop of the Week - Trump



https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ef-package

It’s called negotiating, Mark.

Art of the deal and all that BS.

BS indeed. Trump wanted $1.6T....now $1.8T. He's negotiating the wrong way! 'MERICA! MAGA!!!

[AZGrizFan]

It’s called negotiating, Mark.

Art of the deal and all that BS.

BS indeed. Trump wanted $1.6T....now $1.8T. He's negotiating the wrong way! 'MERICA! MAGA!!!

Hey dipstick, it’s not the wrong way when THEY wanted $2.8. This thing is gonna get done somewhere around $2T.