Coronavirus COVID-19

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:24 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:46 pm

They always expressed uncertainty about how long the protective effects would last and they always recognized the possibility of new variants would arise that the vaccines would not work as well against. They were not wrong about its effectiveness against the variant(s) existing at the time it was tested.
Bourlas is on record stating if you get vaxxed, you won't catch Covid. That sure doesn't seem like expressing uncertainty. Don't try to rewrite history.
Donald Trump is on record (at least 40 times), as saying Covid-19 would go away.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

Gil Dobie wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:30 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:24 pm

Bourlas is on record stating if you get vaxxed, you won't catch Covid. That sure doesn't seem like expressing uncertainty. Don't try to rewrite history.
Donald Trump is on record (at least 40 times), as saying Covid-19 would go away.
Well, is it going away? Trump's prediction was right, Pfizer CEO not so much. Pfizer CEO was lying as well. Early data shows he knew better.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:39 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:30 pm

Donald Trump is on record (at least 40 times), as saying Covid-19 would go away.
Well, is it going away? Trump's prediction was right, Pfizer CEO not so much. Pfizer CEO was lying as well. Early data shows he knew better.
You know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April.

China is working very, very hard. I have spoken to President Xi, and they’re working very hard. And if you know anything about him, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape. They’re — they’ve had a rough patch, and I think right now they have it — it looks like they’re getting it under control more and more. They’re getting it more and more under control. So I think that’s a problem that’s going to go away.

…when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.

We’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.

It’s going to go away, hopefully at the end of the month. And, if not, hopefully it will be soon after that.

But a lot of movement and a lot of progress has been made in a vaccine. But I think what happens is it’s going to go away. This is going to go away. And whether it comes back in a modified form in the fall, we’ll be able to handle it.

…if you look, the numbers are very minuscule compared to what it was. It’s dying out.

But it’s going to disappear. It is disappearing. And vaccines are going to help, and the therapeutics are going to help a lot.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:05 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:39 pm

Well, is it going away? Trump's prediction was right, Pfizer CEO not so much. Pfizer CEO was lying as well. Early data shows he knew better.
You know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April.

China is working very, very hard. I have spoken to President Xi, and they’re working very hard. And if you know anything about him, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape. They’re — they’ve had a rough patch, and I think right now they have it — it looks like they’re getting it under control more and more. They’re getting it more and more under control. So I think that’s a problem that’s going to go away.

…when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.

We’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.

It’s going to go away, hopefully at the end of the month. And, if not, hopefully it will be soon after that.

But a lot of movement and a lot of progress has been made in a vaccine. But I think what happens is it’s going to go away. This is going to go away. And whether it comes back in a modified form in the fall, we’ll be able to handle it.

…if you look, the numbers are very minuscule compared to what it was. It’s dying out.

But it’s going to disappear. It is disappearing. And vaccines are going to help, and the therapeutics are going to help a lot.
I played along for fun, but will be more serious now. What does Trump have to do with the CEO of Pfizer lying about his vaccine, especially when he had the data showing such failure...and damages?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:49 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:05 am

You know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April.

China is working very, very hard. I have spoken to President Xi, and they’re working very hard. And if you know anything about him, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape. They’re — they’ve had a rough patch, and I think right now they have it — it looks like they’re getting it under control more and more. They’re getting it more and more under control. So I think that’s a problem that’s going to go away.

…when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.

We’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.

It’s going to go away, hopefully at the end of the month. And, if not, hopefully it will be soon after that.

But a lot of movement and a lot of progress has been made in a vaccine. But I think what happens is it’s going to go away. This is going to go away. And whether it comes back in a modified form in the fall, we’ll be able to handle it.

…if you look, the numbers are very minuscule compared to what it was. It’s dying out.

But it’s going to disappear. It is disappearing. And vaccines are going to help, and the therapeutics are going to help a lot.
I played along for fun, but will be more serious now. What does Trump have to do with the CEO of Pfizer lying about his vaccine, especially when he had the data showing such failure...and damages?
They both have no cred, lying SOBs.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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bobbythekidd wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:24 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:19 pm

OK. Let’s say I stipulate that fact (which I don’t think is true, but whatever). So with a virus that’s morphing faster than they can develop vaccines to combat it, what’s the point? You gonna get a jab for every variant that comes along? No thanks….
Alternatively, what you said could be written: If we all got the jab it was designed for, we would be much less likely to see these variants.

Our slow adoption and resistance to the jab allowed this.
Well, considering that the omicron variant (as well as the delta before it) didn't originate in the US, it is a little disingenuous to say that if we all had the vaccine we wouldn't be seeing these variants. You would need everyone in the world to get the vaccine at the same time (or close enough) to think you could stop the emergence of variants. And considering that these new variants have been coming at the rate of 6-8 months after each other, it's a pretty tall task, potentially impossible, to vaccinate everyone in the world in that time period. Right now, the best estimate is 3-4 years to get everyone vaccinated. We could have, in that time, at least 3-4 more variants that the vaccine wouldn't be terribly effective for. It's politically expedient to criticize anti-vaxxers for the current variant, but it's also not scientifically correct.
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Coronavirus COVID-19

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As a person who has had a break through case, I am acutely aware that immunity from the vaccine only lasts 6-8 months.

Since it is not practical to vaccinate the whole world in that time frame, vaccine while a part of the solution is not anywhere near a total solution.

That is a fantasy we have been sold by the 81 year old snake oil salesman who has his name in some of the underlying patents that lead to developing the Moderna vaccine.

Fauci has misled us for personal financial gain.


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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Hey, just a thought. When they hand out all of these free N95 masks, are we going to require everyone in America with facial hair to shave every day? The quality of the fit of a mask like that drops dramatically in the presence of facial hair at the seal points. I know we tend to brush over the sciency parts of wearing masks, so maybe this won't be an issue, we'll just assume it won't matter, but just throwing it out there.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Realize Covid has been found in our animal populations for quite some time. Even if we could vaccinate everyone in one day, Covid isn't going away.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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bobbythekidd wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:24 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:19 pm

OK. Let’s say I stipulate that fact (which I don’t think is true, but whatever). So with a virus that’s morphing faster than they can develop vaccines to combat it, what’s the point? You gonna get a jab for every variant that comes along? No thanks….
Alternatively, what you said could be written: If we all got the jab it was designed for, we would be much less likely to see these variants.

Our slow adoption and resistance to the jab allowed this.
Show us the proof, please. This narrative flies in the face of selective pressure, which is an evolutionary pressure. This thread has shown a real world example where the vaccine is driving the mutations (Marek's disease) and multiple peer reviewed studies. Not a single piece of proof has been brought forward to show slow adoption of a leaky vaccine is driving the creation of variants. I'm sure it happens, but apparently not at levels high enough to have a study performed on it.

Omicron is a vaccine escaped variant. Why do you think it is preferentially going after the vaccinated vs unvaxxed? Case rates don't lie.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:58 am
bobbythekidd wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:24 pm

Alternatively, what you said could be written: If we all got the jab it was designed for, we would be much less likely to see these variants.

Our slow adoption and resistance to the jab allowed this.
Show me the proof. This is a false narrative that flies in the face of selective pressure. This line of thinking has been to be incorrect in this thread with real world examples (Marek's disease) and multiple peer reviewed studies. Not a single piece of proof has been brought forward to show slow adoption of a leaky vaccine is driving the creation of variants.

Omicron is a vaccine escaped variant. Why do you think it is preferentially going after the vaccinated vs unvaxxed? Case rates don't lie.
Do you have stats that show the same percent of each group are exposed at the same rate?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:27 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:58 am

Show me the proof. This is a false narrative that flies in the face of selective pressure. This line of thinking has been to be incorrect in this thread with real world examples (Marek's disease) and multiple peer reviewed studies. Not a single piece of proof has been brought forward to show slow adoption of a leaky vaccine is driving the creation of variants.

Omicron is a vaccine escaped variant. Why do you think it is preferentially going after the vaccinated vs unvaxxed? Case rates don't lie.
Do you have stats that show the same percent of each group are exposed at the same rate?
I'm sure there are, but I shouldn't need stats when peer reviewed studies have passed muster AND a real world example has been provided.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:31 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:27 am

Do you have stats that show the same percent of each group are exposed at the same rate?
I'm sure there are, but I shouldn't need stats when peer reviewed studies have passed muster AND a real world example has been provided.
For Omicron?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:34 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:31 am

I'm sure there are, but I shouldn't need stats when peer reviewed studies have passed muster AND a real world example has been provided.
For Omicron?
If you are looking for case rates on Omicron, go to the Public Health England site (link below). Click on the most recent week for the surveillance report.

Go to page 43 for the money chart (if you pick week 2 report). What this chart shows are the unadjusted rates per 100k of those vaccinated vs those unvaccinated. You can see the case rate of the vaxxed is, in some instances, 2-3 times the rate of the unvaxxed. This is more than just "more contact". This is the virus preferentially going after the vaxxed.

Hospitalizations and deaths are still much lower for the vaccinated.

This is why I'm thrilled Omicron is mild. Look at how many people are getting the "natural vaccine" and DONT need to go to the hospital.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ce-reports
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by 89Hen »

Omicron is the cure of the unvaccinated.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:46 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:34 am

For Omicron?
If you are looking for case rates on Omicron, go to the Public Health England site (link below). Click on the most recent week for the surveillance report.

Go to page 43 for the money chart (if you pick week 2 report). What this chart shows are the unadjusted rates per 100k of those vaccinated vs those unvaccinated. You can see the case rate of the vaxxed is, in some instances, 2-3 times the rate of the unvaxxed. This is more than just "more contact". This is the virus preferentially going after the vaxxed.

Hospitalizations and deaths are still much lower for the vaccinated.

This is why I'm thrilled Omicron is mild. Look at how many people are getting the "natural vaccine" and DONT need to go to the hospital.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ce-reports
Also on page 43, what I've been pointing out all along

people who are fully vaccinated may be more health conscious and therefore more likely to get tested for COVID-19 and so more likely to be identified as a case (based on the data provided by the NHS Test and Trace)
• many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age, their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues
• people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19
• people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:53 am
bobbythekidd wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:24 pm

Alternatively, what you said could be written: If we all got the jab it was designed for, we would be much less likely to see these variants.

Our slow adoption and resistance to the jab allowed this.
Well, considering that the omicron variant (as well as the delta before it) didn't originate in the US, it is a little disingenuous to say that if we all had the vaccine we wouldn't be seeing these variants. You would need everyone in the world to get the vaccine at the same time (or close enough) to think you could stop the emergence of variants. And considering that these new variants have been coming at the rate of 6-8 months after each other, it's a pretty tall task, potentially impossible, to vaccinate everyone in the world in that time period. Right now, the best estimate is 3-4 years to get everyone vaccinated. We could have, in that time, at least 3-4 more variants that the vaccine wouldn't be terribly effective for. It's politically expedient to criticize anti-vaxxers for the current variant, but it's also not scientifically correct.
Agreed but at least as of right now…the vaccines still can reduce the rate of spread and severity of infection, right?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:39 am Omicron is the cure of the unvaccinated.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:42 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:46 am

If you are looking for case rates on Omicron, go to the Public Health England site (link below). Click on the most recent week for the surveillance report.

Go to page 43 for the money chart (if you pick week 2 report). What this chart shows are the unadjusted rates per 100k of those vaccinated vs those unvaccinated. You can see the case rate of the vaxxed is, in some instances, 2-3 times the rate of the unvaxxed. This is more than just "more contact". This is the virus preferentially going after the vaxxed.

Hospitalizations and deaths are still much lower for the vaccinated.

This is why I'm thrilled Omicron is mild. Look at how many people are getting the "natural vaccine" and DONT need to go to the hospital.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ce-reports
Also on page 43, what I've been pointing out all along

people who are fully vaccinated may be more health conscious and therefore more likely to get tested for COVID-19 and so more likely to be identified as a case (based on the data provided by the NHS Test and Trace)
• many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age, their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues
• people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19
• people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks
Those "statements" only came about AFTER the case rate for the vaccinated surpassed the unvaccinated. Funny how Public Health England didn't bother to have them in their earlier reports...but it's why I specifically mentioned unadjusted.

Those caveats are there so people don't try to create vaccine effectiveness from those stats. I'm using them to show case rates. Do you really feel that Omicron is infecting the unvaxxed at a higher rate after looking at those numbers?

How about the matched cohort studies which accounted for those factors that show the same?

This is one of those data points you seem simply unwilling to accept and I have no idea why? What does it prove? It simply proves what we already knew. The vaccine fades and eventually you catch Covid. Nothing more. This simply quantifies how much more.

I'll say it here, as I've said it before. Nobody has any idea who is spreading the variants, but to point at solely the unvaccinated is not based in anything other than speculation. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated make variants. Now whether that person actually "coughs" one up onto another person and subsequently that person gets infected, I don't know how to measure that one.

I could be more precise in saying that I feel the vaccine is driving the vaccine escape variants. The vaccine is designed to go after 5 epitopes on the S protein. The entire Covid virus has 55 total epitopes. So when faced with covid, which person is going to drive the evolution of the vaccine resistant variants? The person who has a very narrow 5 epitope repitoire, or someone with a clean slate and 55 epitopes to choose from?

Can you see how one puts more pressure on a virus to escape?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:11 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:42 am

Also on page 43, what I've been pointing out all along

people who are fully vaccinated may be more health conscious and therefore more likely to get tested for COVID-19 and so more likely to be identified as a case (based on the data provided by the NHS Test and Trace)
• many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age, their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues
• people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19
• people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks
Those "statements" only came about AFTER the case rate for the vaccinated surpassed the unvaccinated. Funny how Public Health England didn't bother to have them in their earlier reports...but it's why I specifically mentioned unadjusted.

Those caveats are there so people don't try to create vaccine effectiveness from those stats. I'm using them to show case rates. Do you really feel that Omicron is infecting the unvaxxed at a higher rate after looking at those numbers?

How about the matched cohort studies which accounted for those factors that show the same?

This is one of those data points you seem simply unwilling to accept and I have no idea why? What does it prove? It simply proves what we already knew. The vaccine fades and eventually you catch Covid. Nothing more. This simply quantifies how much more.

I'll say it here, as I've said it before. Nobody has any idea who is spreading the variants, but to point at solely the unvaccinated is not based in anything other than speculation. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated make variants. Now whether that person actually "coughs" one up onto another person and subsequently that person gets infected, I don't know how to measure that one.

I could be more precise in saying that I feel the vaccine is driving the vaccine escape variants. The vaccine is designed to go after 5 epitopes on the S protein. The entire Covid virus has 55 total epitopes. So when faced with covid, which person is going to drive the evolution of the vaccine resistant variants? The person who has a very narrow 5 epitope repitoire, or someone with a clean slate and 55 epitopes to choose from?

Can you see how one puts more pressure on a virus to escape?
I can see where the environment is advantageous for Omicron to spread now that other variants are slowed by the vaccines.

I don't believe the vaxxed are more likely to get Omicron, with all things being equal.

You are trying to pull a Fauci, moving the goalpost here by omitting the contingencies.

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:28 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:11 am

Those "statements" only came about AFTER the case rate for the vaccinated surpassed the unvaccinated. Funny how Public Health England didn't bother to have them in their earlier reports...but it's why I specifically mentioned unadjusted.

Those caveats are there so people don't try to create vaccine effectiveness from those stats. I'm using them to show case rates. Do you really feel that Omicron is infecting the unvaxxed at a higher rate after looking at those numbers?

How about the matched cohort studies which accounted for those factors that show the same?

This is one of those data points you seem simply unwilling to accept and I have no idea why? What does it prove? It simply proves what we already knew. The vaccine fades and eventually you catch Covid. Nothing more. This simply quantifies how much more.

I'll say it here, as I've said it before. Nobody has any idea who is spreading the variants, but to point at solely the unvaccinated is not based in anything other than speculation. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated make variants. Now whether that person actually "coughs" one up onto another person and subsequently that person gets infected, I don't know how to measure that one.

I could be more precise in saying that I feel the vaccine is driving the vaccine escape variants. The vaccine is designed to go after 5 epitopes on the S protein. The entire Covid virus has 55 total epitopes. So when faced with covid, which person is going to drive the evolution of the vaccine resistant variants? The person who has a very narrow 5 epitope repitoire, or someone with a clean slate and 55 epitopes to choose from?

Can you see how one puts more pressure on a virus to escape?
I can see where the environment is advantageous for Omicron to spread now that other variants are slowed by the vaccines.

I don't believe the vaxxed are more likely to get Omicron, with all things being equal.

You are trying to pull a Fauci, moving the goalpost here by omitting the contingencies.

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I can't be accused of moving the goalposts if I'm not actually moving said goalposts.

The disclaimer was for trying to calculate vaccine effectiveness from using case rate data. I'm simply using case rate data by itself.

On the topic of contingencies, I provided two studies in which they accounted for your contingencies by matching cohorts and they showed the same. With Delta and more specifically Omicron, you are at a higher rate of contracting Covid than the unvaxxed, as the vaccine fades. Omicron isn't even waiting for much fade.

One of those studies you referred to as originating from an Iraqi hacker disinformation group, only to support the study when you thought I was attacking a Reuters "fact check" on the topic. If you remember, I wasn't attacking the fact check, but that StInge used it to answer a question that wasn't asked.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:01 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:28 am

I can see where the environment is advantageous for Omicron to spread now that other variants are slowed by the vaccines.

I don't believe the vaxxed are more likely to get Omicron, with all things being equal.

You are trying to pull a Fauci, moving the goalpost here by omitting the contingencies.

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I can't be accused of moving the goalposts if I'm not actually moving said goalposts.

The disclaimer was for trying to calculate vaccine effectiveness from using case rate data. I'm simply using case rate data by itself.

On the topic of contingencies, I provided two studies in which they accounted for your contingencies by matching cohorts and they showed the same. With Delta and more specifically Omicron, you are at a higher rate of contracting Covid than the unvaxxed, as the vaccine fades. Omicron isn't even waiting for much fade.

One of those studies you referred to as originating from an Iraqi hacker disinformation group, only to support the study when you thought I was attacking a Reuters "fact check" on the topic. If you remember, I wasn't attacking the fact check, but that StInge used it to answer a question that wasn't asked.
All things being equal, omicron virus will attack vaxxed and unvaxxed equally.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Winterborn »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:03 am Hey, just a thought. When they hand out all of these free N95 masks, are we going to require everyone in America with facial hair to shave every day? The quality of the fit of a mask like that drops dramatically in the presence of facial hair at the seal points. I know we tend to brush over the sciency parts of wearing masks, so maybe this won't be an issue, we'll just assume it won't matter, but just throwing it out there.
As a person whose facial hair has reached art status, my words of encouragement to somebody that suggest this plan would be to tell them to "Get Bent".

And twirl my mustache as they are digesting those words. :coffee:
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by GannonFan »

Winterborn wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:56 pm
GannonFan wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:03 am Hey, just a thought. When they hand out all of these free N95 masks, are we going to require everyone in America with facial hair to shave every day? The quality of the fit of a mask like that drops dramatically in the presence of facial hair at the seal points. I know we tend to brush over the sciency parts of wearing masks, so maybe this won't be an issue, we'll just assume it won't matter, but just throwing it out there.
As a person whose facial hair has reached art status, my words of encouragement to somebody that suggest this plan would be to tell them to "Get Bent".

And twirl my mustache as they are digesting those words. :coffee:
I'm not saying I'd advise you to shave or not, just pointing it out. I know in places where I've worked and places that had either N95 masks or half/full face respirators, it was a requirement for employment that people who had to wear them had to be clean shaven. Frankly, the things don't work as intended in the presence of facial hair.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:55 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:53 am

Well, considering that the omicron variant (as well as the delta before it) didn't originate in the US, it is a little disingenuous to say that if we all had the vaccine we wouldn't be seeing these variants. You would need everyone in the world to get the vaccine at the same time (or close enough) to think you could stop the emergence of variants. And considering that these new variants have been coming at the rate of 6-8 months after each other, it's a pretty tall task, potentially impossible, to vaccinate everyone in the world in that time period. Right now, the best estimate is 3-4 years to get everyone vaccinated. We could have, in that time, at least 3-4 more variants that the vaccine wouldn't be terribly effective for. It's politically expedient to criticize anti-vaxxers for the current variant, but it's also not scientifically correct.
Agreed but at least as of right now…the vaccines still can reduce the rate of spread and severity of infection, right?
Do they reduce the rate of spread? I don't think the severity of infection is greatly in doubt, but I don't know if I've seen anything scientific saying that vaccines reduce the rate of spread, especially with regard to newer variants like Omicron. I hope that they would but I would think if they would we would be hearing more people tout that.
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