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These efforts are worthy but scattershot. In his CNBC interview, Bill Ford said his company had no guidance from the White House, that it was figuring out how to help on its own. And so comes the second lesson from the war: Coordination is key, and should come from the federal government. Yet President Trump has left it to governors to acquire the supplies they need, saying of the federal government, “we’re not a shipping clerk.” That’s left states competing with each other—and with the feds—for supplies, New York governor Andrew Cuomo has said, driving up prices for everyone.

That perverse result is reminiscent of the early days of the Civil War, says Mark Wilson, a historian at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, when states sent their own delegations to the same manufacturers for blankets, rifles, and so on. “That was a very inefficient and chaotic and, I think, wrong-headed process,” he adds. Unfortunately for the Nazis, by the 20th century the US opted for organizing things from the top.................

The same sort of moves now could help increase production of ventilators and other tools, but Trump has mostly abstained from directing private sector efforts, and resisted using the 1950 Defense Production Act. “We're a country not based on nationalizing our business,” Trump said Sunday. “Call a person over in Venezuela, ask them how did nationalization of their businesses work out? Not too well."

https://www.wired.com/story/what-wwii-c ... ype=earned

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 am
This supports what I was implying about big government in the other thread.

CAA Flagship wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:56 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 am
This supports what I was implying about big government in the other thread.

Then why did you start another thread?

The first of these, sadly, isn’t much good now: Prepare well in advance. President Franklin D. Roosevelt got serious about stocking his armory (and drafting soldiers) more than a year before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, soon after France fell to Germany. By April 1941, the government had ordered $1.5 billion (that’s $26.4 billion today) worth of plane engines, tanks, machine guns, and other tools just from the auto industry—the country’s great manufacturing powerhouse. By the time Congress declared war eight months later, the auto industry was well into the process of realigning supply chains and preparing to arm America. “We weren’t ready to fight in December of 1941,” says Rob Citino, the senior historian at the National World War II Museum in New Orleans, citing early losses like the fall of the Philippines. “But we were more prepared to fight than we would’ve been had Roosevelt not gotten us started early.”

Ford workers are assembling plastic face shields for health care workers, aiming to make 100,000 a week. This year, by contrast, US officials dithered for weeks while the virus approached, and it’s now too late to prepare.

Pwns wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:05 am 1941: Built the mightiest military in the world in no time.

2020: Can't produce respirators and pieces of cloth for health care workers to wear on their faces fast enough to save lives.

Maybe that Ross Perot guy was on to something.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:29 am Seriously, I just said on the other thread how my kryptonite is people bastardizing history, especially US history, and then using that bungled knowledge of history to wrongly push an agenda in the present, and then someone comes out with this crap? 89's right, the ramp up for production for WWII was long and gradual - heck, we were still having supply issues well into the war in '42 and '43. Sure, by the end of the war we were cranking out stuff that just swamped whatever anyone else could produce, but it took awhile to get the ship pointed in the right direction. These half-arsed posts from people cherry-picking history aside of course.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am

Pwns wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:05 am 1941: Built the mightiest military in the world in no time.

2020: Can't produce respirators and pieces of cloth for health care workers to wear on their faces fast enough to save lives.

Maybe that Ross Perot guy was on to something.

1940-1944: built the mightiest military in the world (started ramping up summer 1940..Don't think were ahead of the Japs and Krauts until 1943. Soviets until at least 1944.

2020: In 2 months haven't run out of PPE yet, but there is a risk because 20 years ago started to allow most PPE to be produced overseas..Nevertheless, Like Flagship said, we will be overrun with ventilators by mid-summer.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:38 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am
1940-1944: built the mightiest military in the world (started ramping up summer 1940..Don't think were ahead of the Japs and Krauts until 1943. Soviets until at least 1944.

2020: In 2 months haven't run out of PPE yet, but there is a risk because 20 years ago started to allow most PPE to be produced overseas..Nevertheless, Like Flagship said, we will be overrun with ventilators by mid-summer.

Plenty of places have run out of PPE.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:30 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:29 am Seriously, I just said on the other thread how my kryptonite is people bastardizing history, especially US history, and then using that bungled knowledge of history to wrongly push an agenda in the present, and then someone comes out with this crap? 89's right, the ramp up for production for WWII was long and gradual - heck, we were still having supply issues well into the war in '42 and '43. Sure, by the end of the war we were cranking out stuff that just swamped whatever anyone else could produce, but it took awhile to get the ship pointed in the right direction. These half-arsed posts from people cherry-picking history aside of course.

Yep, lot of ignorance thinking we just flipped a switch with WWII production.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:30 am
Yep, lot of ignorance thinking we just flipped a switch with WWII production.

Talk about cherry picking.

All of yours, Ganny’s, and 89’s complaints were acknowledged in the article. It’s suggesting we learn from the past. For better or worse we cannot rely upon executive leadership from the current administration. This creates some obstacles we didn’t have in 1941. It’s also a different enemy with a different marching speed. We will have to rely more on state leadership and private business leadership focusing on societal obligations to win.

JFC, I sometimes feel like Hicks and Ripley trying to calm down Pvt. Hudson with this ....

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:29 am Seriously, I just said on the other thread how my kryptonite is people bastardizing history, especially US history, and then using that bungled knowledge of history to wrongly push an agenda in the present, and then someone comes out with this crap? 89's right, the ramp up for production for WWII was long and gradual - heck, we were still having supply issues well into the war in '42 and '43. Sure, by the end of the war we were cranking out stuff that just swamped whatever anyone else could produce, but it took awhile to get the ship pointed in the right direction. These half-arsed posts from people cherry-picking history aside of course.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:30 am After 9/11, businesses all over the country devised disaster recovery plans. After COVID-19, I think there will be something similar in the healthcare system.

I have a suspicion that some states or medical facilities may be hoarding ventilators for when the peak COVID-19 numbers hit their state. Medtronic, who makes 15% of the countries ventilators, announced a few weeks back, they were doubling production.

Ventilator manufacturers Link

Medtronic announced in March 2020 it had increased ventilator production by more than 40%, putting it on track to more than double its supply capacity in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:48 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 am

Talk about cherry picking.

All of yours, Ganny’s, and 89’s complaints were acknowledged in the article. It’s suggesting we learn from the past. For better or worse we cannot rely upon executive leadership from the current administration. This creates some obstacles we didn’t have in 1941. It’s also a different enemy with a different marching speed. We will have to rely more on state leadership and private business leadership focusing on societal obligations to win.

JFC, I sometimes feel like Hicks and Ripley trying to calm down Pvt. Hudson with this ....

Kalm goes on a fishing expedition and this happened.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:54 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:30 am After 9/11, businesses all over the country devised disaster recovery plans. After COVID-19, I think there will be something similar in the healthcare system.

I have a suspicion that some states or medical facilities may be hoarding ventilators for when the peak COVID-19 numbers hit their state. Medtronic, who makes 15% of the countries ventilators, announced a few weeks back, they were doubling production.

Ventilator manufacturers Link

Medtronic announced in March 2020 it had increased ventilator production by more than 40%, putting it on track to more than double its supply capacity in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

Absolutely CRIMINAL that any healthcare system, anywhere, didn’t already have a disaster plan in place for just such an event. It’s like SARS, H1N1, Bird Flu, Ebola, AIDS, etc., NEVER happened.....I mean seriously, WTF?

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am

Pwns wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:05 am 1941: Built the mightiest military in the world in no time.

2020: Can't produce respirators and pieces of cloth for health care workers to wear on their faces fast enough to save lives.

Maybe that Ross Perot guy was on to something.

1940-1944: built the mightiest military in the world (started ramping up summer 1940..Don't think were ahead of the Japs and Krauts until 1943. Soviets until at least 1944.

2020: In 2 months haven't run out of PPE yet, but there is a risk because 20 years ago started to allow most PPE to be produced overseas..Nevertheless, Like Flagship said, we will be overrun with ventilators by mid-summer.

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:48 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 am

Talk about cherry picking.

All of yours, Ganny’s, and 89’s complaints were acknowledged in the article. It’s suggesting we learn from the past. For better or worse we cannot rely upon executive leadership from the current administration. This creates some obstacles we didn’t have in 1941. It’s also a different enemy with a different marching speed. We will have to rely more on state leadership and private business leadership focusing on societal obligations to win.

JFC, I sometimes feel like Hicks and Ripley trying to calm down Pvt. Hudson with this ....

Kalm goes on a fishing expedition and this happened.

CAA Flagship wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:13 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am
1940-1944: built the mightiest military in the world (started ramping up summer 1940..Don't think were ahead of the Japs and Krauts until 1943. Soviets until at least 1944.

2020: In 2 months haven't run out of PPE yet, but there is a risk because 20 years ago started to allow most PPE to be produced overseas..Nevertheless, Like Flagship said, we will be overrun with ventilators by mid-summer.

Watched a little of Cuomo's conference today. He was saying that after NY peaks, and before other states peak, he could see NY sending their excess ventilators to other states.
It will be interesting to see how that works out. I wonder who will be paying for the ventilators that move from one state to the other. Will the last state to use them be stuck with the ventilators and the bill? Will the first state to use them be stuck with the bill and be forced to sell them to the other states? Will the federal government purchase them and loan them out to wherever needed? Will states pay a rental fee to the Feds for them? Actually, I really don't care one way or the other, but it will be interesting to see how they are paid for and how willing the states are to work with each other based on that.

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:48 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 am
Talk about cherry picking.

All of yours, Ganny’s, and 89’s complaints were acknowledged in the article. It’s suggesting we learn from the past. For better or worse we cannot rely upon executive leadership from the current administration. This creates some obstacles we didn’t have in 1941. It’s also a different enemy with a different marching speed. We will have to rely more on state leadership and private business leadership focusing on societal obligations to win.

JFC, I sometimes feel like Hicks and Ripley trying to calm down Pvt. Hudson with this ....

Kalm goes on a fishing expedition and this happened.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:30 am
Yep, lot of ignorance thinking we just flipped a switch with WWII production.

Talk about cherry picking.

All of yours, Ganny’s, and 89’s complaints were acknowledged in the article. It’s suggesting we learn from the past. For better or worse we cannot rely upon executive leadership from the current administration. This creates some obstacles we didn’t have in 1941. It’s also a different enemy with a different marching speed. We will have to rely more on state leadership and private business leadership focusing on societal obligations to win.

JFC, I sometimes feel like Hicks or Ripley trying to calm down Pvt. Hudson with this ....

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am

Pwns wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:05 am 1941: Built the mightiest military in the world in no time.

2020: Can't produce respirators and pieces of cloth for health care workers to wear on their faces fast enough to save lives.

Maybe that Ross Perot guy was on to something.

1940-1944: built the mightiest military in the world (started ramping up summer 1940..Don't think were ahead of the Japs and Krauts until 1943. Soviets until at least 1944.

2020: In 2 months haven't run out of PPE yet, but there is a risk because 20 years ago started to allow most PPE to be produced overseas..Nevertheless, Like Flagship said, we will be overrun with ventilators by mid-summer.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:44 am

dbackjon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:38 am

Plenty of places have run out of PPE.

Where? The worst hit is NYC. Cuomo a day or 2 ago said NY is ok now, but could run out in a week.

Ibanez wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:50 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:29 am Seriously, I just said on the other thread how my kryptonite is people bastardizing history, especially US history, and then using that bungled knowledge of history to wrongly push an agenda in the present, and then someone comes out with this crap? 89's right, the ramp up for production for WWII was long and gradual - heck, we were still having supply issues well into the war in '42 and '43. Sure, by the end of the war we were cranking out stuff that just swamped whatever anyone else could produce, but it took awhile to get the ship pointed in the right direction. These half-arsed posts from people cherry-picking history aside of course.

Not to mention that prior to the war, US military production was already humming along. We were producing guns, planes, tanks, and so much more for France and the UK. Materially, we weren't caught off guard in 1941.