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HI54UNI wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:13 pm Some of the typical things you would expect. Koch brothers are evil. We need population control. Glad to see them calling out biomass, biofuels, and algore. I chuckled at the environmental company Blood and Gore.

Pwns wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:22 pm Watch it free on Youtube if you're bored enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

Good breakdown of the problem with renewable energy. The problem is that it goes off the rails some with the Malthusian stuff. Utterly pointless to talk about unless you want a China-esque forced abortion society or you want policy that will just lead to the suicide of the west while Muslims outbreed us all and take over the world.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:22 pm Enviros are demanding that the film be taken down due to alleged falsehoods in the film.

Chizzang wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:36 pm

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:22 pm Enviros are demanding that the film be taken down due to alleged falsehoods in the film.

somebody will have to watch it first...



over the decades he's alienated anybody with more than 2 brains cells

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:45 pm

Pwns wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:22 pm Watch it free on Youtube if you're bored enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

Good breakdown of the problem with renewable energy. The problem is that it goes off the rails some with the Malthusian stuff. Utterly pointless to talk about unless you want a China-esque forced abortion society or you want policy that will just lead to the suicide of the west while Muslims outbreed us all and take over the world.

I just watched the very beginning where they asked how long they give Homo sapiens. I'd give it 50,000 years.

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:52 pm

Chizzang wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:36 pm

somebody will have to watch it first...



over the decades he's alienated anybody with more than 2 brains cells

Good point. I still have not seen any of his films....ever. Judging by the level of expertise and opinions on them over the years from conservatives there must a lot of hate watching.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:58 am This is my first Moore film and I only watched it because it is related to energy issues. Moore is the producer but the film appears to be more the work of the director, Jeff Gibbs. It does draw attention to things like electric cars being predominantly powered by coal or natural gas generated electricity, the intermittency of wind and solar and the fossil fuel backup needed for it, the size of solar installations to be able to have any major impact on reducing CO2, and the impacts of mining to get the various inputs for the wind and solar panels. It also calls out the hypocrisy of guys like algore. The film is dishonest in that it claims there have been no CO2 reductions due to wind and solar and it using 8+ year old data when newer better examples exist.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:55 am Does he promote nuclear energy as a real viable alternative? That would at least be a plus.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:39 am

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:58 am This is my first Moore film and I only watched it because it is related to energy issues. Moore is the producer but the film appears to be more the work of the director, Jeff Gibbs. It does draw attention to things like electric cars being predominantly powered by coal or natural gas generated electricity, the intermittency of wind and solar and the fossil fuel backup needed for it, the size of solar installations to be able to have any major impact on reducing CO2, and the impacts of mining to get the various inputs for the wind and solar panels. It also calls out the hypocrisy of guys like algore. The film is dishonest in that it claims there have been no CO2 reductions due to wind and solar and it using 8+ year old data when newer better examples exist.

Just had a solar evaluation done by a company called Solgen on our residence. It sounds good on paper with the tax credit, state buy back rates, etc. sounds good on paper but still skeptical.

Any thoughts?

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:56 am

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:39 am

Just had a solar evaluation done by a company called Solgen on our residence. It sounds good on paper with the tax credit, state buy back rates, etc. sounds good on paper but still skeptical.

Any thoughts?

Some initial questions-

1. What is your residential kWh rate?
2. What is the base/customer/meter charge?
3. What is are the state laws/regulations or utility rules regarding excess energy produced and how you receive credit for those excess kWh?
4. Are you buying from a coop, utility district, investor owned utility?
5. Are the rules in #3 different depending on how you answer #4.

Here's why I ask some of these questions:

Residential rate is what you are offsetting. How easily can that rate be changed often depends on state law and type of utility. Same with the base/customer/meter charge. Say the utility is at $10 base charge and 10 cents per kWh today so you would offset a 10 cent/kWh with solar. But if the utility changes that to a $35 base charge and 6.5 cent energy it has a dramatic change on your payback. Similar situation with excess kWh generated. How is the excess credited? Carry forward indefinitely? Up to a year? A month? Or cash credit at a certain rate? How easily can any of those things be changed? Any state laws/rules allowing an installation to be grandfathered at current rules if rules change?

You can shoot me a PM if you want as well and we could discuss over email or the phone some time.

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:52 pm

Chizzang wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:36 pm

somebody will have to watch it first...



over the decades he's alienated anybody with more than 2 brains cells

Good point. I still have not seen any of his films....ever. Judging by the level of expertise and opinions on them over the years from conservatives there must a lot of hate watching.

GannonFan wrote:Does he promote nuclear energy as a real viable alternative? That would at least be a plus.

CID1990 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:10 pm

GannonFan wrote:Does he promote nuclear energy as a real viable alternative? That would at least be a plus.

The future is nuclear. Completely nuclear.

How long it takes us to shrug off these unicorns and get to that future is the only uncertainty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:38 pm

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:56 am

Some initial questions-

1. What is your residential kWh rate?
2. What is the base/customer/meter charge?
3. What is are the state laws/regulations or utility rules regarding excess energy produced and how you receive credit for those excess kWh?
4. Are you buying from a coop, utility district, investor owned utility?
5. Are the rules in #3 different depending on how you answer #4.

Here's why I ask some of these questions:

Residential rate is what you are offsetting. How easily can that rate be changed often depends on state law and type of utility. Same with the base/customer/meter charge. Say the utility is at $10 base charge and 10 cents per kWh today so you would offset a 10 cent/kWh with solar. But if the utility changes that to a $35 base charge and 6.5 cent energy it has a dramatic change on your payback. Similar situation with excess kWh generated. How is the excess credited? Carry forward indefinitely? Up to a year? A month? Or cash credit at a certain rate? How easily can any of those things be changed? Any state laws/rules allowing an installation to be grandfathered at current rules if rules change?

You can shoot me a PM if you want as well and we could discuss over email or the phone some time.

Darn that's complicated. And it reminds me too much of the electricity and magnetism section of Physics (the one you took after the comparatively much easier mechanic-based Physics). I always sucked in that.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:36 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:38 pm

Darn that's complicated. And it reminds me too much of the electricity and magnetism section of Physics (the one you took after the comparatively much easier mechanic-based Physics). I always sucked in that.

It's really not that complicated. But the issue about rates and how excess is handled is important. If you install and bank on your current rates for your payback and the rate structure changes you may have screwed yourself. And how excess is handled is important because many solar installers oversize so you generate excess kWhs that you can bank for other times because that's the only way they can make the panels pencil out. For example Iowa just passed a law, with both the utilities and enviros supporting, that any excess you have at the end of the year you get paid half and the other half the utility has to pay to a low-income utility assistance fund. Existing people are grandfathered in for 20 years but any new installs have that as a rule. Trying to make solar installers right size. But the law only applies to investor owned utilities. It doesn't apply to municipal utilities or coops. So they can treat your excess how ever they want. The 13 munis I work with all have policies to pay avoided cost for excess or about 2 cents per kWh.