China

[Winterborn]

That is the one I am talking about (and assume Ivy is as well).

Interesting and long article. I need to set aside some time to finish it.

I do wonder if the CCP is really only the face of China and not really the cause of the problem. The real issue seems to be the Han belief that they are the rightful rulers of the world (celestial empire, mandate of heaven, etc.).

Would things be different if Chiang Kai-shek had won? Or would we still have arrived at this point?

Link to the article - China Unquarantined

While policymakers accurately assessed the upside for America from engaging China, they missed a whole dimension of downside in the righthand column of the ledger. They gave virtually no consideration to the unintended ramifications of promoting global “interdependence” with an increasingly powerful actor that does not share Western liberal values — that is, indeed, implacably hostile to them. An entire class of hazards inherent in our grand strategy for “managing China” were left, by America’s chief risk officers, priced effectively at zero — even as our “globalization” policies exposed our society, economy, and political system to huge new vulnerabilities at the hands of the Chinese Communist Party.

That is a good question.

My guess is that the mandate would of been tempered in a way more towards democracy.

[CID1990]

That is the one I am talking about (and assume Ivy is as well).

Interesting and long article. I need to set aside some time to finish it.

I do wonder if the CCP is really only the face of China and not really the cause of the problem. The real issue seems to be the Han belief that they are the rightful rulers of the world (celestial empire, mandate of heaven, etc.).

Would things be different if Chiang Kai-shek had won? Or would we still have arrived at this point?

Link to the article - China Unquarantined

While policymakers accurately assessed the upside for America from engaging China, they missed a whole dimension of downside in the righthand column of the ledger. They gave virtually no consideration to the unintended ramifications of promoting global “interdependence” with an increasingly powerful actor that does not share Western liberal values — that is, indeed, implacably hostile to them. An entire class of hazards inherent in our grand strategy for “managing China” were left, by America’s chief risk officers, priced effectively at zero — even as our “globalization” policies exposed our society, economy, and political system to huge new vulnerabilities at the hands of the Chinese Communist Party.

There may be some residual Han thinking but the real movers behind contemporary Chinese thinking and motivations are Confucianism and humiliations in the 19th and 20th centuries at the hands of the British and Japanese.

The hereditary epicenter of Han dynasty thinking is actually Korea (In Vietnamese: “Han Quoc”) and it explains more about the motivations of the Kims, and how they stay in power.

Add: the KMT was corrupt as hell but so was postwar S Korea. I think had the KMT prevailed China would look more like a hybrid of modern S Korea with traditional internal conflict thrown in as wealth concentrated on the coasts.


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[Ivytalk]

Interesting and long article. I need to set aside some time to finish it.

I do wonder if the CCP is really only the face of China and not really the cause of the problem. The real issue seems to be the Han belief that they are the rightful rulers of the world (celestial empire, mandate of heaven, etc.).

Would things be different if Chiang Kai-shek had won? Or would we still have arrived at this point?

Link to the article - China Unquarantined

There may be some residual Han thinking but the real movers behind contemporary Chinese thinking and motivations are Confucianism and humiliations in the 19th and 20th centuries at the hands of the British and Japanese.

The hereditary epicenter of Han dynasty thinking is actually Korea (In Vietnamese: “Han Quoc”) and it explains more about the motivations of the Kims, and how they stay in power.

Add: the KMT was corrupt as hell but so was postwar S Korea. I think had the KMT prevailed China would look more like a hybrid of modern S Korea with traditional internal conflict thrown in as wealth concentrated on the coasts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KMT was indeed corrupt. Madame Chiang Kai-shek made Imelda Marcos look like a piker.

[UNI88]

Interesting and long article. I need to set aside some time to finish it.

I do wonder if the CCP is really only the face of China and not really the cause of the problem. The real issue seems to be the Han belief that they are the rightful rulers of the world (celestial empire, mandate of heaven, etc.).

Would things be different if Chiang Kai-shek had won? Or would we still have arrived at this point?

Link to the article - China Unquarantined

There may be some residual Han thinking but the real movers behind contemporary Chinese thinking and motivations are Confucianism and humiliations in the 19th and 20th centuries at the hands of the British and Japanese.

The hereditary epicenter of Han dynasty thinking is actually Korea (In Vietnamese: “Han Quoc”) and it explains more about the motivations of the Kims, and how they stay in power.

Add: the KMT was corrupt as hell but so was postwar S Korea. I think had the KMT prevailed China would look more like a hybrid of modern S Korea with traditional internal conflict thrown in as wealth concentrated on the coasts.

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Is this still true if you switch Han to Mandarin?

Any recommended reading to expand my understanding?

[CID1990]

There may be some residual Han thinking but the real movers behind contemporary Chinese thinking and motivations are Confucianism and humiliations in the 19th and 20th centuries at the hands of the British and Japanese.

The hereditary epicenter of Han dynasty thinking is actually Korea (In Vietnamese: “Han Quoc”) and it explains more about the motivations of the Kims, and how they stay in power.

Add: the KMT was corrupt as hell but so was postwar S Korea. I think had the KMT prevailed China would look more like a hybrid of modern S Korea with traditional internal conflict thrown in as wealth concentrated on the coasts.

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Is this still true if you switch Han to Mandarin?

Any recommended reading to expand my understanding?

Mandarin is just the language of most of China, and the language of the Chinese civil servant class that spanned several centuries. It doesn’t describe any particular dynastic age or ethnic group.

A lot of imperial, dynastic culture died in China during the Cultural Revolution and much of the thrust of the CCP is in preventing that kind of thinking- as it has traditionally led to disunion and infighting, which is what left China vulnerable to its external enemies in the first place.

A good place to start reading is the narrative account “Son of the Revolution” by Liang Heng. That was my first introduction to Communist China, I read it as a high schooler. For a good start on Chinese geopolitical thinking throughout history, check out “Chinese Machiavelli: 5000 years of Chinese Statecraft” by Dennis and Chingpei Bloodworth

Any good reading list on China is going to be a deep dive but those two are a good start


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[UNI88]

Is this still true if you switch Han to Mandarin?

Any recommended reading to expand my understanding?

Mandarin is just the language of most of China, and the language of the Chinese civil servant class that spanned several centuries. It doesn’t describe any particular dynastic age or ethnic group.

A lot of imperial, dynastic culture died in China during the Cultural Revolution and much of the thrust of the CCP is in preventing that kind of thinking- as it has traditionally led to disunion and infighting, which is what left China vulnerable to its external enemies in the first place.

A good place to start reading is the narrative account “Son of the Revolution” by Liang Heng. That was my first introduction to Communist China, I read it as a high schooler. For a good start on Chinese geopolitical thinking throughout history, check out “Chinese Machiavelli: 5000 years of Chinese Statecraft” by Dennis and Chingpei Bloodworth

Any good reading list on China is going to be a deep dive but those two are a good start

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks! I was thinking more about the mindset then the culture or the language.

I'll look into those books.

[UNI88]

Mandarin is just the language of most of China, and the language of the Chinese civil servant class that spanned several centuries. It doesn’t describe any particular dynastic age or ethnic group.

A lot of imperial, dynastic culture died in China during the Cultural Revolution and much of the thrust of the CCP is in preventing that kind of thinking- as it has traditionally led to disunion and infighting, which is what left China vulnerable to its external enemies in the first place.

A good place to start reading is the narrative account “Son of the Revolution” by Liang Heng. That was my first introduction to Communist China, I read it as a high schooler. For a good start on Chinese geopolitical thinking throughout history, check out “Chinese Machiavelli: 5000 years of Chinese Statecraft” by Dennis and Chingpei Bloodworth

Any good reading list on China is going to be a deep dive but those two are a good start

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks! I was thinking more about the mindset then the culture or the language.

I'll look into those books.

It looks like Han was the word I meant. But from an ethnic not imperial dynasty perspective. The CCP is encouraging ethnic Hans to settle in Xinjiang.

[Col Hogan]

Chinese “spy center” closed in Houston...

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2020/0 ... m=facebook

[Winterborn]

Three Gorges Dam suffered "slight deformation" due to flooding. That China admitted this much makes me wonder what the actual damage is. One of the cities downstream is Wuhan.

I remember during the building/design of it that there were questions if the design could hold a surge of water.

The deformation occurred last Saturday when the flood from western provinces including Sichuan and Chongqing along the upper reaches of the Yangtze River peaked at a record-setting 61,000 cubic meters per second, according to China Three Gorges Corporation, a state-owned enterprise that manages the dam and the sprawling power plant underneath it.

The company noted that parts of the dam had “deformed slightly,” displacing some external structures, and seepage into the main outlet walls had also been reported throughout the 18 hours on Saturday and Sunday when water was discharged though its outlets.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/three-gor ... operators/

[CID1990]

Three Gorges Dam suffered "slight deformation" due to flooding. That China admitted this much makes me wonder what the actual damage is. One of the cities downstream is Wuhan.

I remember during the building/design of it that there were questions if the design could hold a surge of water.

The deformation occurred last Saturday when the flood from western provinces including Sichuan and Chongqing along the upper reaches of the Yangtze River peaked at a record-setting 61,000 cubic meters per second, according to China Three Gorges Corporation, a state-owned enterprise that manages the dam and the sprawling power plant underneath it.

The company noted that parts of the dam had “deformed slightly,” displacing some external structures, and seepage into the main outlet walls had also been reported throughout the 18 hours on Saturday and Sunday when water was discharged though its outlets.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/three-gor ... operators/

No, it can’t. I am not sure they can figure out how to shore it up, either. But if it breaks hopefully they can let it happen in a controlled fashion.

China has been altering river levels in the Mekong - causing drought conditions in some areas of Laos, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Thai farmers on the Laos border are the only ones really causing a stink... Laos and Cambodia are already Chinese sock puppets and their rural folks are just subsistence farmers.


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[dbackjon]

Three Gorges Dam suffered "slight deformation" due to flooding. That China admitted this much makes me wonder what the actual damage is. One of the cities downstream is Wuhan.

I remember during the building/design of it that there were questions if the design could hold a surge of water.

The deformation occurred last Saturday when the flood from western provinces including Sichuan and Chongqing along the upper reaches of the Yangtze River peaked at a record-setting 61,000 cubic meters per second, according to China Three Gorges Corporation, a state-owned enterprise that manages the dam and the sprawling power plant underneath it.

The company noted that parts of the dam had “deformed slightly,” displacing some external structures, and seepage into the main outlet walls had also been reported throughout the 18 hours on Saturday and Sunday when water was discharged though its outlets.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/three-gor ... operators/

Three Gorges was a clusterfuck from the beginning. 1.3 million displaced, unstable areas flooded, landslides into the lake, etc.

[Ivytalk]

Three Gorges Dam suffered "slight deformation" due to flooding. That China admitted this much makes me wonder what the actual damage is. One of the cities downstream is Wuhan.

I remember during the building/design of it that there were questions if the design could hold a surge of water.



https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/three-gor ... operators/

Three Gorges was a clusterfuck from the beginning. 1.3 million displaced, unstable areas flooded, landslides into the lake, etc.

Sounds like the Reds need a civil engineer or a close facsimile.

I nominate Tripz.

[CID1990]

Three Gorges Dam suffered "slight deformation" due to flooding. That China admitted this much makes me wonder what the actual damage is. One of the cities downstream is Wuhan.

I remember during the building/design of it that there were questions if the design could hold a surge of water.
https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/three-gor ... operators/

Three Gorges was a clusterfuck from the beginning. 1.3 million displaced, unstable areas flooded, landslides into the lake, etc.

The one encouraging thing about all of this is it is one of thousands of ways that China is losing sight of the global hegemony they seek. There are literally no countries in the world they aren’t pissing off, stepping on, or co-opting.

As much as I think the democratic world needs to be forward leaning and proactive with China, there are also areas where we need to take a strategic hands-off approach with them. China’s own actions, coupled with the effects of the global information age, means that China will be unable to achieve the kind of power or legitimacy they seek without some civil society/democratic reforms. So problems like the Three Gorges Dam are ones that we unfortunately allow to unfold, and offer aid to the countries being adversely affected by it (we are already doing this in concert with other democratic countries- to an extent).

Even without opposition from the West, we have seen how China undermines itself in world institutions. Look no further than China’s hand picked choice to lead the WHO - Tedros Ghebreyesus - who covered up cholera epidemics as the Ethiopian Minister of Health (making him well experienced for the WHO job as a Chinese puppet), denied medical supply services to opposition ethnic groups in Ethiopia, and even appointed Robert Mugabe as a goodwill ambassador for the WHO. Ghebreyseus is representative of China’s influence in international organizations around the world - and these people serve China’s interests first (and get wealthy doing it).

On this path, China’s only friends will eventually be just the other autocracies and impoverished countries that cannot refuse the credit, and that is not the path to global leadership without the use military force.

In many respects we just need to stay the course. Our most immediate task is going to be to avoid the temptation to walk back financial sanctions simply because the Trump admin enacted them.


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[Winterborn]

Three Gorges Dam suffered "slight deformation" due to flooding. That China admitted this much makes me wonder what the actual damage is. One of the cities downstream is Wuhan.

I remember during the building/design of it that there were questions if the design could hold a surge of water.



https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/three-gor ... operators/

No, it can’t. I am not sure they can figure out how to shore it up, either. But if it breaks hopefully they can let it happen in a controlled fashion.

China has been altering river levels in the Mekong - causing drought conditions in some areas of Laos, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Thai farmers on the Laos border are the only ones really causing a stink... Laos and Cambodia are already Chinese sock puppets and their rural folks are just subsistence farmers.


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Based on my Googlefu it being a gravity dam tends to limit some of their options and the size also adds its own troubles.
I know the bedrock that it is built on wasn't the best and water seepage is a concern for that type of dam. Which can lead to sliding and eventually to the dam "floating" and water escaping underneath.

Learned something new in that fluctuating water levels can also add extra strain on the dam and the surrounding areas. This can cause mini-earthquakes due to the change in pressure and water content of the surround bedrock. It being built on 2 earthquake faults doesn't help matters.

I do hope it can be controlled, as approximately 400 million people live downstream and if it lets loose, the Yangtze will get a bit straighter.

[dbackjon]

No, it can’t. I am not sure they can figure out how to shore it up, either. But if it breaks hopefully they can let it happen in a controlled fashion.

China has been altering river levels in the Mekong - causing drought conditions in some areas of Laos, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Thai farmers on the Laos border are the only ones really causing a stink... Laos and Cambodia are already Chinese sock puppets and their rural folks are just subsistence farmers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Based on my Googlefu it being a gravity dam tends to limit some of their options and the size also adds its own troubles.
I know the bedrock that it is built on wasn't the best and water seepage is a concern for that type of dam. Which can lead to sliding and eventually to the dam "floating" and water escaping underneath.

Learned something new in that fluctuating water levels can also add extra strain on the dam and the surrounding areas. This can cause mini-earthquakes due to the change in pressure and water content of the surround bedrock. It being built on 2 earthquake faults doesn't help matters.

I do hope it can be controlled, as approximately 400 million people live downstream and if it lets loose, the Yangtze will get a bit straighter.

All that pressure from the weight of the water compacts the rucks underneath. It's like a freeze thaw cycle - which does more damage than if something just stays frozen.

Earthen Dam on unstable base?

What possibly could go wrong?

[Winterborn]

Based on my Googlefu it being a gravity dam tends to limit some of their options and the size also adds its own troubles.
I know the bedrock that it is built on wasn't the best and water seepage is a concern for that type of dam. Which can lead to sliding and eventually to the dam "floating" and water escaping underneath.

Learned something new in that fluctuating water levels can also add extra strain on the dam and the surrounding areas. This can cause mini-earthquakes due to the change in pressure and water content of the surround bedrock. It being built on 2 earthquake faults doesn't help matters.

I do hope it can be controlled, as approximately 400 million people live downstream and if it lets loose, the Yangtze will get a bit straighter.

All that pressure from the weight of the water compacts the rucks underneath. It's like a freeze thaw cycle - which does more damage than if something just stays frozen.

Earthen Dam on unstable base?

What possibly could go wrong?

Add in substandard building materials and practices (The same company built, tested, and signed off on the construction), along with a push to finish it and it could get interesting.

Slight clarification is that it is not an Earthen Dam but is made out of concrete and is referred to as a Gravity Dam. Oahe Dam in South Dakota is an example of an Earthen Dam.

[Ivytalk]

All that pressure from the weight of the water compacts the rucks underneath. It's like a freeze thaw cycle - which does more damage than if something just stays frozen.

Earthen Dam on unstable base?

What possibly could go wrong?

Add in substandard building materials and practices (The same company built, tested, and signed off on the construction), along with a push to finish it and it could get interesting.

Slight clarification is that it is not an Earthen Dam but is made out of concrete and is referred to as a Gravity Dam. Oahe Dam in South Dakota is an example of an Earthen Dam.

And the Red Chunks can’t sue anybody!

[SeattleGriz]

Anyone paying attention to all the flooding and the Three Gorges Dam?

Not sure if the story is bullshit, but before and after pictures show the difference.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/three-gor ... operators/

In a rare revelation, Beijing has admitted that its 2.4-kilometer Three Gorges Dam spanning the Yangtze River in Hubei province “deformed slightly” after record flooding

[dbackjon]

All that pressure from the weight of the water compacts the rucks underneath. It's like a freeze thaw cycle - which does more damage than if something just stays frozen.

Earthen Dam on unstable base?

What possibly could go wrong?

Add in substandard building materials and practices (The same company built, tested, and signed off on the construction), along with a push to finish it and it could get interesting.

Slight clarification is that it is not an Earthen Dam but is made out of concrete and is referred to as a Gravity Dam. Oahe Dam in South Dakota is an example of an Earthen Dam.

You are right on the type of dam. But the base isn't the best material to build on

[Winterborn]

Add in substandard building materials and practices (The same company built, tested, and signed off on the construction), along with a push to finish it and it could get interesting.

Slight clarification is that it is not an Earthen Dam but is made out of concrete and is referred to as a Gravity Dam. Oahe Dam in South Dakota is an example of an Earthen Dam.

You are right on the type of dam. But the base isn't the best material to build on

Agree. They supposedly went down to "bedrock" but there were some questions on the anchor blocks back when it was being built and the type of concrete/steel used.

[CAA Flagship]

Squid Wars

https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/china- ... index.html

OFF THE COAST OF SOUTH KOREA — The battered wooden “ghost boats” drift through the Sea of Japan for months, their only cargo the corpses of starved North Korean fishermen whose bodies have been reduced to skeletons. Last year more than 150 of these macabre vessels washed ashore in Japan, and there have been more than 500 in the past five years.

For years the grisly phenomenon mystified Japanese police, whose best guess was that climate change pushed the squid population farther from North Korea, driving the country’s desperate fishermen dangerous distances from shore, where they become stranded and die from exposure.

But an NBC News investigation, based on new satellite data, has revealed what marine researchers now say is a more likely explanation: China is sending a previously invisible armada of industrial boats to illegally fish in North Korean waters, violently displacing smaller North Korean boats and spearheading a decline in once-abundant squid stocks of more than 70 percent.

[Ivytalk]

Squid Wars

https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/china- ... index.html

OFF THE COAST OF SOUTH KOREA — The battered wooden “ghost boats” drift through the Sea of Japan for months, their only cargo the corpses of starved North Korean fishermen whose bodies have been reduced to skeletons. Last year more than 150 of these macabre vessels washed ashore in Japan, and there have been more than 500 in the past five years.

For years the grisly phenomenon mystified Japanese police, whose best guess was that climate change pushed the squid population farther from North Korea, driving the country’s desperate fishermen dangerous distances from shore, where they become stranded and die from exposure.

But an NBC News investigation, based on new satellite data, has revealed what marine researchers now say is a more likely explanation: China is sending a previously invisible armada of industrial boats to illegally fish in North Korean waters, violently displacing smaller North Korean boats and spearheading a decline in once-abundant squid stocks of more than 70 percent.

So are the damn Reds trying to corner the sushi market now?

[CAA Flagship]

So are the damn Reds trying to corner the sushi market now?

Well their Bat Shit market demand took a hit.

[CID1990]

The PLA regularly sends their people into the US as researchers under cover stories

Finally we are starting to crack down on this shit

Over/under until racism is the cause?


https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/20 ... consulate/


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[Ivytalk]

The PLA regularly sends their people into the US as researchers under cover stories

Finally we are starting to crack down on this shit

Over/under until racism is the cause?


https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/20 ... consulate/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

First Houston, next SFO. Close ‘em all down!