China
Re: China
OH I read your post differently. I was reading that Trump and Grenell cast doubt on Milley's comments and actions - i.e. saying it wasn't true. That wouldn't show Trump in the best light and obvious that they wouldn't like it.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:24 amWhy would Trump and Grenell cast doubt that Milley committed treason? Seems Trump was saying the authors were known for outlandish stories.
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Re: China
Umm, no.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:17 am
I'm sure the lawyers here will tell you that this type of thinking is built into our legal and judicial systems and is a key component of "Spirit of Law" in enlightenment ideals. The major US example is the Constitution being a living document open to flexibility and interpretation. Another is that a jury can follow their own sense of justice and nullify a law.
For fun, Tripz, I looked back at the brilliant Constitutional exegesis in your 9/22/20 posts in the RBG Cancer thread. You have no clue how the system of checks and balances works. Back then, you trashed the Constitution as an archaic product of wealthy, white, “privelaged[sic]” men who thwarted the will of the people by keeping the Legislative branch in check. News flash: the last 50 years have witnessed a relentless surrender of those clear Article I powers by Congress to the Executive. Now, you adopt the usual progressive trope of the Constitution as a “living document” when the plain text is defended only when it comports with the left’s preferred outcome. You can’t have it both ways.
As for “jury nullification,” the federal courts have consistently refused to recognize it as a right. A criminal defendant has no right to a jury instruction giving the jury the right to ignore the judge’s instructions on the law. Sure, courts have recognized the concept of jury nullification, and examples exist of “rogue juries” in drug cases and otherwise, but it is not a right. In fact, people in jury pools who express beliefs like yours can be stricken for cause.
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Re: China
Where do you get that from?
CID posted:
Who else really mentions Woodward?
Is the Trump worship that much different from the Obama adulation?
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Re: China
I'm not going to bother to read through the posts, but when I heard this on the news last night, IF true, there is no way this is not treason at its most basic definition. Sorry guys.
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Re: China
The only Americans likely to be in China when we attack might be some businessmen; collateral damage easily replaced.andy7171 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:33 am Here's my simpleton non-military take on this. Were Milley to alert China of an impending secret assault. China would prepare and defend itself as one would expect. Thus killing, potentially, Americans that might otherwise not have died due to the element of surprise.
That, is what I find treasonous and unacceptable.
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Re: China
Or students, or tourists, or medical personnel involved in a shared program, or the actual guys involved in doing the attacking. I know likely no one you would ever care about, but it wouldn't just be a few guys in suits.houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:23 pmThe only Americans likely to be in China when we attack might be some businessmen; collateral damage easily replaced.andy7171 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:33 am Here's my simpleton non-military take on this. Were Milley to alert China of an impending secret assault. China would prepare and defend itself as one would expect. Thus killing, potentially, Americans that might otherwise not have died due to the element of surprise.
That, is what I find treasonous and unacceptable.
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Re: China
I care about my fellow veterans at least as much as you do, but there won't be some kind of D-Day landing operation going on. It will be missiles all the way.
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
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Re: China
Some cant seem to make up their mind whether Trump was controlled by Russia or whether he'd start a war on a whim.
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Re: China
So much for all those “institutions and norms” we heard about from you guys fainting couches during Trump’s tenure, eh∞∞∞ wrote:Nah, Harris is damaged.
Milley should run for President. Need more honorable people who know how to handle tough situations. Milley - among others - are straight up American heroes for correctly assuming they had a traitor in Trump in the chain of command. There's no reason to risk our national security and democracy for any individual, whether it's the President or not.
I'm thankful Milley took a proactive step to reaffirm order when the damn capitol had just been attacked.
The fact he had to do what he did is the extremely disturbing point. Some of you should take ethics; laws are meant to be broken.
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Re: China
Springing to the defense of the leftmost againkalm wrote:How is it authoritarian? It’s practically the opposite.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow that Trump was dangerous and that Jan 6th was real I guess.
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Re: China
What about LTC Vindman?∞∞∞ wrote:I guess we're at the point in this dumb timeline where Bob Woodward is considered an outlandish author...
Trump above all.
He not a hero anymore?
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Re: China
Oh the conundrums Leftists get themselves into sometimes. Quite the entertainment watching them backtrack/defend/make excuses for all the hypocritical nonsense they spew and support. It never gets old.
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Re: China
I haven't followed this that closely, but how did Woodward find out about the Milley phone calls? Did Milley tell him about them? Or did Woodward get that info from somewhere else?
Re: China
Who is "you guys?" I've been calling for a remake of the United States for years now.CID1990 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:49 pmSo much for all those “institutions and norms” we heard about from you guys fainting couches during Trump’s tenure, eh∞∞∞ wrote:Nah, Harris is damaged.
Milley should run for President. Need more honorable people who know how to handle tough situations. Milley - among others - are straight up American heroes for correctly assuming they had a traitor in Trump in the chain of command. There's no reason to risk our national security and democracy for any individual, whether it's the President or not.
I'm thankful Milley took a proactive step to reaffirm order when the damn capitol had just been attacked.
The fact he had to do what he did is the extremely disturbing point. Some of you should take ethics; laws are meant to be broken.
Lots of institutional norms should be thrown out the window. But I still do believe in democracy, individual rights, human rights, freedom, and science...which Trump, the GOP, and the current conservative movement are a grave threat to. Institutional norms should be broken in order to create a better democracy, not a fascist state as the Trump cult is attempting.
I'm glad Americans are fighting back, but fascism isn't easy to defeat. The 2020s are gonna be a helluva ride.
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Re: China
I'm talking about the Americans in the theoretical surprise attack. Launched by the only President to not start a war in the last 50 years.houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:23 pmThe only Americans likely to be in China when we attack might be some businessmen; collateral damage easily replaced.andy7171 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:33 am Here's my simpleton non-military take on this. Were Milley to alert China of an impending secret assault. China would prepare and defend itself as one would expect. Thus killing, potentially, Americans that might otherwise not have died due to the element of surprise.
That, is what I find treasonous and unacceptable.
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Re: China
War is a loaded word. Presidents over the past 50 years have continued, intensified and ended wars but which wars were actually began by Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton and Obama? Or are you counting military interventions like Grenada, Haiti, Panama, Balkans, etc...?
I think the first President since LBJ to enter the US into a new war was Bush in 1990.
Someone fact check me but, I think Ford, Carter and Trump get the honor of not starting or escalating no net new conflicts or even escalating existing conflicts.
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Re: China
I really don’t get why the left doesn’t think critically.
Milley betrayed our country to its biggest nation state threat and boasted he had the guns to take over.
An insurrection is overthrowing an established government and setting up another government. Like the autonomous zone in Portland.
A mostly peaceful protest doesn’t include violence against people, pillaging, looting and burning.
The FBI reports that the Jan 6 incident at the Capitol shows little or any prior planning and direction.
It takes 26,000 troops to protect 535 Legislators in DC, but less than 5,000 to protect thousands of Americans in Iraq.
Georgia and Texas expanding and unifying voting hours, but requiring valid ID to prevent fraudulent votes is not voter suppression.
Killing your unborn children is not a Constitutionally protected right.
HIPPA laws are to protect the privacy of your medical records.
Uncontrolled immigration brings down countries.
Socialism doesn’t elevate the living conditions of the poor but rather lowers the level for everyone except governmental elites and their enablers where ever it has been tried over 100+ years of experiments around the globe.
Ruling by Executive Orders, because Congress has abdicated its responsibilities is dictatorial and leads to fascism.
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Milley betrayed our country to its biggest nation state threat and boasted he had the guns to take over.
An insurrection is overthrowing an established government and setting up another government. Like the autonomous zone in Portland.
A mostly peaceful protest doesn’t include violence against people, pillaging, looting and burning.
The FBI reports that the Jan 6 incident at the Capitol shows little or any prior planning and direction.
It takes 26,000 troops to protect 535 Legislators in DC, but less than 5,000 to protect thousands of Americans in Iraq.
Georgia and Texas expanding and unifying voting hours, but requiring valid ID to prevent fraudulent votes is not voter suppression.
Killing your unborn children is not a Constitutionally protected right.
HIPPA laws are to protect the privacy of your medical records.
Uncontrolled immigration brings down countries.
Socialism doesn’t elevate the living conditions of the poor but rather lowers the level for everyone except governmental elites and their enablers where ever it has been tried over 100+ years of experiments around the globe.
Ruling by Executive Orders, because Congress has abdicated its responsibilities is dictatorial and leads to fascism.
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Re: China
Congrats Mr. Nitpicky! 40 years!*Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:49 amWar is a loaded word. Presidents over the past 50 years have continued, intensified and ended wars but which wars were actually began by Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton and Obama? Or are you counting military interventions like Grenada, Haiti, Panama, Balkans, etc...?
I think the first President since LBJ to enter the US into a new war was Bush in 1990.
Someone fact check me but, I think Ford, Carter and Trump get the honor of not starting or escalating no net new conflicts or even escalating existing conflicts.
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Re: China
And current pseudo-progressives (regressives to be more accurate because they want to go backward and try old, failed ideas rather than coming up with new progressive ones) are also a grave threat to the republic, individual rights, freedom, science (that doesn't fit their views), etc.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:35 amWho is "you guys?" I've been calling for a remake of the United States for years now.
Lots of institutional norms should be thrown out the window. But I still do believe in democracy, individual rights, human rights, freedom, and science...which Trump, the GOP, and the current conservative movement are a grave threat to. Institutional norms should be broken in order to create a better democracy, not a fascist state as the Trump cult is attempting.
I'm glad Americans are fighting back, but fascism isn't easy to defeat. The 2020s are gonna be a helluva ride.
I'm also glad that Americans are fighting back, but Marxism isn't easy to defeat. The 2020s are gonna be a heckuva ride.
And here I am, stuck in the middle between whacked-out extremists that want to destroy the country.
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