China

[SDHornet]

Progressive "logic" at it's finest. When thing don't go your way then run afoul of the rules/chain of command by any means necessary.

Of course. That's literally one of the main logic differences studied between progressives and conservatives.

Progressives acknowledge the law, but don't necessarily think it should be followed if it's unethical. Rules are malleable.

Conservatives are typically more authoritarian. Rule, laws, chains-of-command must be followed no matter what.

Both ignore laws to get their way, but progressives are open about it while conservatives like to pretend they believe in the law.

So what Milley did isn't authoritarian?

Oh and I bet you don't feel this way about the folks openly choosing to ignore the Biden China Virus mandates.

[∞∞∞]

Of course. That's literally one of the main logic differences studied between progressives and conservatives.

Progressives acknowledge the law, but don't necessarily think it should be followed if it's unethical. Rules are malleable.

Conservatives are typically more authoritarian. Rule, laws, chains-of-command must be followed no matter what.

Both ignore laws to get their way, but progressives are open about it while conservatives like to pretend they believe in the law.

So what Milley did isn't authoritarian?

Oh and I bet you don't feel this way about the folks openly choosing to ignore the Biden China Virus mandates.

Correct on both counts.

Welcome to human society SD. Rules and punishments are all relative, as has always been and will always be. No tool is perfect, including democracy, but it's the best we got to check each other. And in the end laws are just ideas; they mean different things to different people.

[SDHornet]

So what Milley did isn't authoritarian?

Oh and I bet you don't feel this way about the folks openly choosing to ignore the Biden China Virus mandates.

Correct on both counts.

Welcome to human society SD. Rules and punishments are all relative, as has always been and will always be. No tool is perfect, including democracy, but it's the best we got to check each other. And in the end laws are just ideas; they mean different things to different people.

Your mental gymnastics are quite astounding.

[∞∞∞]

Correct on both counts.

Welcome to human society SD. Rules and punishments are all relative, as has always been and will always be. No tool is perfect, including democracy, but it's the best we got to check each other. And in the end laws are just ideas; they mean different things to different people.

Your mental gymnastics are quite astounding.

Call it what you want, but rules shouldn't be followed blindly. Of course laws are necessary to limit anarchy, but decisions should include the heart, mind, and some moral compass in order to find a fair outcome. People with bad morality (like Trump) will take advantage of that flexibility, but in general flexibility with the law is a better way to deal with reality because we're talking about human society, not programmed robots.

I'm sure the lawyers here will tell you that this type of thinking is built into our legal and judicial systems and is a key component of "Spirit of Law" in enlightenment ideals. The major US example is the Constitution being a living document open to flexibility and interpretation. Another is that a jury can follow their own sense of justice and nullify a law.

[kalm]

Of course. That's literally one of the main logic differences studied between progressives and conservatives.

Progressives acknowledge the law, but don't necessarily think it should be followed if it's unethical. Rules are malleable.

Conservatives are typically more authoritarian. Rule, laws, chains-of-command must be followed no matter what.

Both ignore laws to get their way, but progressives are open about it while conservatives like to pretend they believe in the law.

So what Milley did isn't authoritarian?

Oh and I bet you don't feel this way about the folks openly choosing to ignore the Biden China Virus mandates.

How is it authoritarian? It’s practically the opposite.

It’s a bitter pill to swallow that Trump was dangerous and that Jan 6th was real I guess.

[andy7171]

Well, this morning I've learned trip doesn't understand how the military works and once again kalmy is excusing him.

[kalm]

Well, this morning I've learned trip doesn't understand how the military works and once again kalmy is excusing him.

Hmmm…didn’t know I was replying to Trip there.

Hey Andy…did you know that according to the book, Trump literally told Pence he wasn’t going to be his friend anymore once Pence admitted he was going to certify the election results?

I want you to know, I will still be your friend, Andy!

[andy7171]

Well, this morning I've learned trip doesn't understand how the military works and once again kalmy is excusing him.

Hmmm…didn’t know I was replying to Trip there.

Hey Andy…did you know that according to the book, Trump literally told Pence he wasn’t going to be his friend anymore once Pence admitted he was going to certify the election results?

I want you to know, I will still be your friend, Andy!

I can't read asshole!

[kalm]

Hmmm…didn’t know I was replying to Trip there.

Hey Andy…did you know that according to the book, Trump literally told Pence he wasn’t going to be his friend anymore once Pence admitted he was going to certify the election results?

I want you to know, I will still be your friend, Andy!

I can't read asshole!

I know. That’s why they wouldn’t let you play center.

[∞∞∞]

I mean how it works on paper, and what you should actually do, is the entire point of "Spirit of Law". It's not in the spirit of the chain-in-command to threaten nations just because you're having a temper tantrum. January 6 and afterwards was an especially shaky moment. If Trump had no issue attacking his own nation, there's reason to think a man who hated international order may threaten international order on the way out. If Woodward's accounts are true, there were serious discussions about international upheaval by the Trump admin.

Milley was being an adult and statesmen when our statesmen had disappeared. He brought back some order in a chaotic moment.

If you have a proven traitor (Trump, Jan 6.) within the chain-of-command, it's 100% ok to go around that person.

[UNI88]

Progressives acknowledge the law, but don't necessarily think it should be followed if it's unethical. Rules are malleable.

So pseudo-Progressives are a lot like MAGAts in that regard. MAGAts truly believe the election was stolen and certification of the election unethical. As a result, they shouldn't have to follow rules/laws regarding that election.

Welcome to human society SD. Rules and punishments are all relative, as has always been and will always be. No tool is perfect, including democracy, but it's the best we got to check each other. And in the end laws are just ideas; they mean different things to different people.

It’s a bitter pill to swallow that Trump was dangerous and that Jan 6th was real I guess.

This is a bunch of sanctimonious bullcrap - both pseudo-progressives and MAGAts believe they can break the rules because their cause is righteous but if the other side breaks the rules they're traitorous.

What's it feel like to be mirror images of BDKaren and CG?

[kalm]

Progressives acknowledge the law, but don't necessarily think it should be followed if it's unethical. Rules are malleable.

So pseudo-Progressives are a lot like MAGAts in that regard. MAGAts truly believe the election was stolen and certification of the election unethical. As a result, they shouldn't have to follow rules/laws regarding that election.

Welcome to human society SD. Rules and punishments are all relative, as has always been and will always be. No tool is perfect, including democracy, but it's the best we got to check each other. And in the end laws are just ideas; they mean different things to different people.

It’s a bitter pill to swallow that Trump was dangerous and that Jan 6th was real I guess.

This is a bunch of sanctimonious bullcrap - both pseudo-progressives and MAGAts believe they can break the rules because their cause is righteous but if the other side breaks the rules they're traitorous.

What's it feel like to be mirror images of BDKaren and CG?

Oh cry me a river.

Sometimes one side is wrong.

[andy7171]

Here's my simpleton non-military take on this. Were Milley to alert China of an impending secret assault. China would prepare and defend itself as one would expect. Thus killing, potentially, Americans that might otherwise not have died due to the element of surprise.

That, is what I find treasonous and unacceptable.

[kalm]

Here's my simpleton non-military take on this. Were Milley to alert China of an impending secret assault. China would prepare and defend itself as one would expect. Thus killing, potentially, Americans that might otherwise not have died due to the element of surprise.

That, is what I find treasonous and unacceptable.

Would an impending secret assault over pride be acceptable?

[89Hen]

Progressives acknowledge the law, but don't necessarily think it should be followed

You speak the truth.

[∞∞∞]

Here's my simpleton non-military take on this. Were Milley to alert China of an impending secret assault. China would prepare and defend itself as one would expect. Thus killing, potentially, Americans that might otherwise not have died due to the element of surprise.

That, is what I find treasonous and unacceptable.

Except he didn't do any of that. He said, "hey our President is being a big baby right now. I know he just attacked his own country, but don't worry, we have the situation under control and adults are in charge now. We're going to make sure international order is upheld. You won't be attacked."

The fact that China or Milley or anyone else was worried Trump may get us into a conflict with China is the issue.

It's a testament to our government that the mechanisms continued to churn despite January 6 and the President abdicating his responsibilities because of a tantrum. Pence, Pelosi, McConnell, Milley, Governors, judges, among others took over the reigns and pushed aside what could have become a worse situation.

[SeattleGriz]

I'll just say that I'm not buying the story about Milley. When both Trump and Grenell come out and cast doubt, you have to wonder what is going on.

Seems there is conflict among the two major groups in our Government. State Dept and CIA vs Whitehouse, Pentagon and NSC. Now throw in the tidbit about one of our Five Eye partners intercepting the calls and this becomes the usual diversion tactic in my opinion.

[UNI88]

So pseudo-Progressives are a lot like MAGAts in that regard. MAGAts truly believe the election was stolen and certification of the election unethical. As a result, they shouldn't have to follow rules/laws regarding that election.

This is a bunch of sanctimonious bullcrap - both pseudo-progressives and MAGAts believe they can break the rules because their cause is righteous but if the other side breaks the rules they're traitorous.

What's it feel like to be mirror images of BDKaren and CG?

Oh cry me a river.

Sometimes one side is wrong.

Each side thinks they're right and the other is wrong. What if you're both wrong?

[kalm]

Oh cry me a river.

Sometimes one side is wrong.

Each side thinks they're right and the other is wrong. What if you're both wrong?

I don’t have a political side when it comes to American politics.

[GannonFan]

So if a general, on their own, decides that they don't think Biden is right in the head anymore, that the evidence of diminished rational thinking is too great to ignore, and they go ahead and start contacting foreign entities that everything goes through that general and ignore what the President says or does, then that's okay too?

I get it that Trump is anathema, but the Constitution is pretty clear on how we handle a person we don't think is suitable for the Office.

[UNI88]

Each side thinks they're right and the other is wrong. What if you're both wrong?

I don’t have a political side when it comes to American politics.

Good. Maybe we can finally move past the "what they did was worse so let's focus on their transgressions" and hold all wrong-doers accountable.

[AZGrizFan]

Jesus, Trip's logical circles are really hard to follow today.

[AZGrizFan]

Each side thinks they're right and the other is wrong. What if you're both wrong?

I don’t have a political side when it comes to American politics.

[Ibanez]

I'll just say that I'm not buying the story about Milley. When both Trump and Grenell come out and cast doubt, you have to wonder what is going on.

Seems there is conflict among the two major groups in our Government. State Dept and CIA vs Whitehouse, Pentagon and NSC. Now throw in the tidbit about one of our Five Eye partners intercepting the calls and this becomes the usual diversion tactic in my opinion.

Of course Trump and a supporter of his are going to cast doubt - that isn't why you should take it with a grain of salt.

[SeattleGriz]

I'll just say that I'm not buying the story about Milley. When both Trump and Grenell come out and cast doubt, you have to wonder what is going on.

Seems there is conflict among the two major groups in our Government. State Dept and CIA vs Whitehouse, Pentagon and NSC. Now throw in the tidbit about one of our Five Eye partners intercepting the calls and this becomes the usual diversion tactic in my opinion.

Of course Trump and a supporter of his are going to cast doubt - that isn't why you should take it with a grain of salt.

Why would Trump and Grenell cast doubt that Milley committed treason? Seems Trump was saying the authors were known for outlandish stories.