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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

We are so fucked


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Re: China

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Yea. :nod:

And crickets from our elected "betters".
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Re: China

Post by Winterborn »

“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

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Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:17 am
LeBron James sounds like a wealthy, greedy, evil capitalist. He needs to pay more in taxes. :D
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Re: China

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Ugh. Clay Travis. Liked his cfb books. Then went full MAGA. Clay Travis should stick to sports, imo.
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Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:19 pm Ugh. Clay Travis. Liked his cfb books. Then went full MAGA. Clay Travis should stick to sports, imo.
So what? Does he have a point about LeBron?

Does LeBron care about human rights and equality? Or does he only care about them when the people look like him and when it doesn't cost him money?
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Re: China

Post by AZGrizFan »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:39 pm
Skjellyfetti wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:19 pm Ugh. Clay Travis. Liked his cfb books. Then went full MAGA. Clay Travis should stick to sports, imo.
So what? Does he have a point about LeBron?

Does LeBron care about human rights and equality? Or does he only care about them when the people look like him and when it doesn't cost him money?
I'll take option "B", for $100,000....
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Re: China

Post by SDHornet »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:19 pm Ugh. Clay Travis. Liked his cfb books. Then went full MAGA. Clay Travis should stick to sports, imo.
The irony here is that Travis is more Anti-woke than pro-MAGA...but I mean don't let facts something something something...
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Re: China

Post by SDHornet »

Happened in Taiwan, but the unloaded boat came from China. Hhmm...

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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

SDHornet wrote:Happened in Taiwan, but the unloaded boat came from China. Hhmm...

That was deliberate


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Re: China

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CID1990 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:25 am
SDHornet wrote:Happened in Taiwan, but the unloaded boat came from China. Hhmm...

That was deliberate


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Having spent significant time in, on and around SE Asian ports and S.K ships, there is an ASTOUNDING lack of shiphandling, shipyard and general safety concerns. Those fuckers just do whatever they want, and come what may, I swear to god. I've watched SK Navy commanders sideswipe ships, snap lines, rip off scuppers, lifelines, etc., etc., on theirs and other ships, and just keeeeep moving. Unreal.
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Re: China

Post by BDKJMU »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:33 am
CID1990 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:25 am
That was deliberate


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Having spent significant time in, on and around SE Asian ports and S.K ships, there is an ASTOUNDING lack of shiphandling, shipyard and general safety concerns. Those fuckers just do whatever they want, and come what may, I swear to god. I've watched SK Navy commanders sideswipe ships, snap lines, rip off scuppers, lifelines, etc., etc., on theirs and other ships, and just keeeeep moving. Unreal.
Asian drivers..
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Re: China

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BDKJMU wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:39 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:33 am

Having spent significant time in, on and around SE Asian ports and S.K ships, there is an ASTOUNDING lack of shiphandling, shipyard and general safety concerns. Those fuckers just do whatever they want, and come what may, I swear to god. I've watched SK Navy commanders sideswipe ships, snap lines, rip off scuppers, lifelines, etc., etc., on theirs and other ships, and just keeeeep moving. Unreal.
Asian drivers..
I mean, as a US sailor, it was the weirdest thing I'd ever seen. They just did NOT GAF. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And having spent a significant amount of time on SK roads, I can assure you the "Asian driver" concept is very, very real.
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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

AZGrizFan wrote:
CID1990 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:25 am That was deliberate


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Having spent significant time in, on and around SE Asian ports and S.K ships, there is an ASTOUNDING lack of shiphandling, shipyard and general safety concerns. Those fuckers just do whatever they want, and come what may, I swear to god. I've watched SK Navy commanders sideswipe ships, snap lines, rip off scuppers, lifelines, etc., etc., on theirs and other ships, and just keeeeep moving. Unreal.
AZGrizFan wrote:
CID1990 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:25 am That was deliberate


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Having spent significant time in, on and around SE Asian ports and S.K ships, there is an ASTOUNDING lack of shiphandling, shipyard and general safety concerns. Those fuckers just do whatever they want, and come what may, I swear to god. I've watched SK Navy commanders sideswipe ships, snap lines, rip off scuppers, lifelines, etc., etc., on theirs and other ships, and just keeeeep moving. Unreal.
There is some truth to that. When I lived in Vietnam, a buddy of mine there was a maritime insurance adjuster for Lloyd’s. He was a former tanker captain for BP and he was full of stories. I’ve witnessed some waterborne craziness there myself.

However, I say this was deliberate for a couple reasons -

Chinese captains of the larger, newer ships which visit ports in fully developed countries are actually pretty highly qualified. They have to be in order to be bonded for operating in these port facilities. So I am certain that this particular captain was skilled, and in fact he managed to shut down a Taiwan dock facility with minimal damage to his own vessel.

China is harassing Taiwan literally on all fronts and this is just another facet of that. I say this was deliberate with about a 95% level of confidence.


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Re: China

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CID1990 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:08 am
AZGrizFan wrote:
Having spent significant time in, on and around SE Asian ports and S.K ships, there is an ASTOUNDING lack of shiphandling, shipyard and general safety concerns. Those fuckers just do whatever they want, and come what may, I swear to god. I've watched SK Navy commanders sideswipe ships, snap lines, rip off scuppers, lifelines, etc., etc., on theirs and other ships, and just keeeeep moving. Unreal.
AZGrizFan wrote:
Having spent significant time in, on and around SE Asian ports and S.K ships, there is an ASTOUNDING lack of shiphandling, shipyard and general safety concerns. Those fuckers just do whatever they want, and come what may, I swear to god. I've watched SK Navy commanders sideswipe ships, snap lines, rip off scuppers, lifelines, etc., etc., on theirs and other ships, and just keeeeep moving. Unreal.
There is some truth to that. When I lived in Vietnam, a buddy of mine there was a maritime insurance adjuster for Lloyd’s. He was a former tanker captain for BP and he was full of stories. I’ve witnessed some waterborne craziness there myself.

However, I say this was deliberate for a couple reasons -

Chinese captains of the larger, newer ships which visit ports in fully developed countries are actually pretty highly qualified. They have to be in order to be bonded for operating in these port facilities. So I am certain that this particular captain was skilled, and in fact he managed to shut down a Taiwan dock facility with minimal damage to his own vessel.

China is harassing Taiwan literally on all fronts and this is just another facet of that. I say this was deliberate with about a 95% level of confidence.


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Oh, I wasn't disputing that....just sharing my own experiences with SE Asian ship drivers in general.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: China

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CID1990 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:08 am
AZGrizFan wrote:
Having spent significant time in, on and around SE Asian ports and S.K ships, there is an ASTOUNDING lack of shiphandling, shipyard and general safety concerns. Those fuckers just do whatever they want, and come what may, I swear to god. I've watched SK Navy commanders sideswipe ships, snap lines, rip off scuppers, lifelines, etc., etc., on theirs and other ships, and just keeeeep moving. Unreal.
AZGrizFan wrote:
Having spent significant time in, on and around SE Asian ports and S.K ships, there is an ASTOUNDING lack of shiphandling, shipyard and general safety concerns. Those fuckers just do whatever they want, and come what may, I swear to god. I've watched SK Navy commanders sideswipe ships, snap lines, rip off scuppers, lifelines, etc., etc., on theirs and other ships, and just keeeeep moving. Unreal.
There is some truth to that. When I lived in Vietnam, a buddy of mine there was a maritime insurance adjuster for Lloyd’s. He was a former tanker captain for BP and he was full of stories. I’ve witnessed some waterborne craziness there myself.

However, I say this was deliberate for a couple reasons -

Chinese captains of the larger, newer ships which visit ports in fully developed countries are actually pretty highly qualified. They have to be in order to be bonded for operating in these port facilities. So I am certain that this particular captain was skilled, and in fact he managed to shut down a Taiwan dock facility with minimal damage to his own vessel.

China is harassing Taiwan literally on all fronts and this is just another facet of that. I say this was deliberate with about a 95% level of confidence.


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Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

Ivytalk wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:24 am
CID1990 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:08 am
There is some truth to that. When I lived in Vietnam, a buddy of mine there was a maritime insurance adjuster for Lloyd’s. He was a former tanker captain for BP and he was full of stories. I’ve witnessed some waterborne craziness there myself.

However, I say this was deliberate for a couple reasons -

Chinese captains of the larger, newer ships which visit ports in fully developed countries are actually pretty highly qualified. They have to be in order to be bonded for operating in these port facilities. So I am certain that this particular captain was skilled, and in fact he managed to shut down a Taiwan dock facility with minimal damage to his own vessel.

China is harassing Taiwan literally on all fronts and this is just another facet of that. I say this was deliberate with about a 95% level of confidence.

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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:08 am There is some truth to that. When I lived in Vietnam, a buddy of mine there was a maritime insurance adjuster for Lloyd’s. He was a former tanker captain for BP and he was full of stories. I’ve witnessed some waterborne craziness there myself.

However, I say this was deliberate for a couple reasons -

Chinese captains of the larger, newer ships which visit ports in fully developed countries are actually pretty highly qualified. They have to be in order to be bonded for operating in these port facilities. So I am certain that this particular captain was skilled, and in fact he managed to shut down a Taiwan dock facility with minimal damage to his own vessel.

China is harassing Taiwan literally on all fronts and this is just another facet of that. I say this was deliberate with about a 95% level of confidence.


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I like you to know precisely where I stand

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Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

This was one of the worst weeks for China on the world stage in a while
In a time when the leaders of the richest country in the world are squabbling amongst themselves over whether or not to fund the building of roads and bridges, this bill is a heartening sight. The most important ways the US can counter China are by strengthening itself domestically and by preparing for the worst with its allies. If the giant prehistoric monster hasn't awakened, this week shows that it now at least has one eye open.
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Re: China

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UNI88 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:50 am This was one of the worst weeks for China on the world stage in a while
In a time when the leaders of the richest country in the world are squabbling amongst themselves over whether or not to fund the building of roads and bridges, this bill is a heartening sight. The most important ways the US can counter China are by strengthening itself domestically and by preparing for the worst with its allies. If the giant prehistoric monster hasn't awakened, this week shows that it now at least has one eye open.
Interesting article.

The question that came to mind for me is if Trump had not taken the stance he did towards China, would Biden be saying/towing a similar line or would he been business as usual?
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Re: China

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Winterborn wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:51 pm
Interesting article.

The question that came to mind for me is if Trump had not taken the stance he did towards China, would Biden be saying/towing a similar line or would he been business as usual?
IMO, if it weren't for Trump shining a light on the issues for people to see then Biden and his administration would have gone about business as usual and insiders would have continued to grow wealthy from Chinese investments/payoffs. That said, I'm not sure Trump was the right guy to continue carrying the banner forward for the reasons laid out in the opinion piece.
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Re: China

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UNI88 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:10 pm
Winterborn wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:51 pm

Interesting article.

The question that came to mind for me is if Trump had not taken the stance he did towards China, would Biden be saying/towing a similar line or would he been business as usual?
IMO, if it weren't for Trump shining a light on the issues for people to see then Biden and his administration would have gone about business as usual and insiders would have continued to grow wealthy from Chinese investments/payoffs. That said, I'm not sure Trump was the right guy to carry the banner forward for the reasons laid out in the opinion piece.

That is my thoughts as well, at least to your first sentence.

As for the second, maybe, maybe not. He was too brash and wanted things done quickly so he could claim credit, also he used a very big stick in the EU when he should of used more of a carrot/little stick approach. But it was that same brashness, that shined the light on China for the masses and it was his narrative that stuck with people (better or worse). On the other hand it made him unpredictable and U.S. policy towards China has been very predictable for many decades. The U.S. has a tendency to move as slow as molasses and while that is a good thing when it comes to international diplomacy, in this area I think it was hurting us (at least at this point in the China game). IMHO, I think we could of handled another 4 years of Trump international diplomacy, but that is just an opinion of somebody who has spent some decent time in South Korea and talking to regulators both there and in the EU.
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Re: China

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Winterborn wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:25 pm
UNI88 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:10 pm
IMO, if it weren't for Trump shining a light on the issues for people to see then Biden and his administration would have gone about business as usual and insiders would have continued to grow wealthy from Chinese investments/payoffs. That said, I'm not sure Trump was the right guy to carry the banner forward for the reasons laid out in the opinion piece.
That is my thoughts as well, at least to your first sentence.

As for the second, maybe, maybe not. He was too brash and wanted things done quickly so he could claim credit, also he used a very big stick in the EU when he should of used more of a carrot/little stick approach. But it was that same brashness, that shined the light on China for the masses and it was his narrative that stuck with people (better or worse). On the other hand it made him unpredictable and U.S. policy towards China has been very predictable for many decades. The U.S. has a tendency to move as slow as molasses and while that is a good thing when it comes to international diplomacy, in this area I think it was hurting us (at least at this point in the China game). IMHO, I think we could of handled another 4 years of Trump international diplomacy, but that is just an opinion of somebody who has spent some decent time in South Korea and talking to regulators both there and in the EU.
I don't think 4 more years of Trump would have been the worst thing in the world. The constant attacks from the pseudo-progressive left would have been a distracting pain the azz but a divided Congress would have kept him from doing any real damage. I'm grateful for Manchin and Sinema for giving us some semblance of that with the present administration.
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Re: China

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UNI88 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:33 pm
Winterborn wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:25 pm

That is my thoughts as well, at least to your first sentence.

As for the second, maybe, maybe not. He was too brash and wanted things done quickly so he could claim credit, also he used a very big stick in the EU when he should of used more of a carrot/little stick approach. But it was that same brashness, that shined the light on China for the masses and it was his narrative that stuck with people (better or worse). On the other hand it made him unpredictable and U.S. policy towards China has been very predictable for many decades. The U.S. has a tendency to move as slow as molasses and while that is a good thing when it comes to international diplomacy, in this area I think it was hurting us (at least at this point in the China game). IMHO, I think we could of handled another 4 years of Trump international diplomacy, but that is just an opinion of somebody who has spent some decent time in South Korea and talking to regulators both there and in the EU.
I don't think 4 more years of Trump would have been the worst thing in the world. The constant attacks from the pseudo-progressive left would have been a distracting pain the azz but a divided Congress would have kept him from doing any real damage. I'm grateful for Manchin and Sinema for giving us some semblance of that with the present administration.
Same. :nod:

Though sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't be better off letting the pendulum swing just so people get a taste of what they are wishing for. But then again, it is probably best if we don't.
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Re: China

Post by AZGrizFan »

Winterborn wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:25 pm
UNI88 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:10 pm

IMO, if it weren't for Trump shining a light on the issues for people to see then Biden and his administration would have gone about business as usual and insiders would have continued to grow wealthy from Chinese investments/payoffs. That said, I'm not sure Trump was the right guy to carry the banner forward for the reasons laid out in the opinion piece.

That is my thoughts as well, at least to your first sentence.

As for the second, maybe, maybe not. He was too brash and wanted things done quickly so he could claim credit, also he used a very big stick in the EU when he should of used more of a carrot/little stick approach. But it was that same brashness, that shined the light on China for the masses and it was his narrative that stuck with people (better or worse). On the other hand it made him unpredictable and U.S. policy towards China has been very predictable for many decades. The U.S. has a tendency to move as slow as molasses and while that is a good thing when it comes to international diplomacy, in this area I think it was hurting us (at least at this point in the China game). IMHO, I think we could of handled another 4 years of Trump international diplomacy, but that is just an opinion of somebody who has spent some decent time in South Korea and talking to regulators both there and in the EU.
It’s been predictable alright. Predictably WRONG.
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