Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by houndawg »

SDHornet wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:39 am
houndawg wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:17 am

What a fucking halfwit.

It was a straight up execution of a suspect with his hands cuffed behind his back and over 500 lbs. of dead weight on him. Even the cops are thinking so out loud.
So the fentanyl in Floyd's system had no impact on his ability to breathe?

Also I think the cop weighed about 145 lbs plus whatever gear he had on. 500 lbs? Didn't you take a physics class once-upon-a-time?
Yes, I've taken some physics classes. You?

All three cops had their full weight on him and he was hancuffed face down while he begged for his life for 9 minutes. 3 cops averaging 160 lbs. each dressed is close to 500 lbs. PM me if you would like some help with the math.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by UNI88 »

Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:49 am
Pwns wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:46 am Meanwhile, it will take many years for the number of unjustifiable killings of black people by police to catch up with the spike in homicide deaths almost surely stemming from local and state antagonization of police. The same kind that happened after Michael Brown was killed.

And it'll all be ignored because you can't build "waycism" narratives when black men are a vastly bigger danger to black men than police.
Who do the people in these neighborhoods, with the violent crime call, when they see a crime? They don't call the cops, because they don't trust them, due the bias they have experienced. If we had better cops, that the community trusted, maybe the criminals would get caught after the first violent crime and not the 10th, or maybe even think twice about committing the crime. Police unions for one, have kept crappy cops like Chauvin, 18 complaints in 19 years, on the street. I tend to agree with Cleets, pay the cops more, and you will get better candidates and give them better training to start with.

There have been several studies that show Blacks are arrested more often, given longer sentences, higher bail and higher fines, that Whites that commit the same crime.
How is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?

The vast majority of cops are good people trying to do the job right. Are there some bad apples? Yes. Are there more than other professions? Probably - I would guess that bullies are drawn to law enforcement because it can give them cover to be a bully. Unions help protect the bullies and the incompetent in law enforcement and other fields. So let's attack police unions but pretend that they can't cause the same problems in other fields.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

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UNI88 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:09 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:49 am

Who do the people in these neighborhoods, with the violent crime call, when they see a crime? They don't call the cops, because they don't trust them, due the bias they have experienced. If we had better cops, that the community trusted, maybe the criminals would get caught after the first violent crime and not the 10th, or maybe even think twice about committing the crime. Police unions for one, have kept crappy cops like Chauvin, 18 complaints in 19 years, on the street. I tend to agree with Cleets, pay the cops more, and you will get better candidates and give them better training to start with.

There have been several studies that show Blacks are arrested more often, given longer sentences, higher bail and higher fines, that Whites that commit the same crime.
How is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?

The vast majority of cops are good people trying to do the job right. Are there some bad apples? Yes. Are there more than other professions? Probably - I would guess that bullies are drawn to law enforcement because it can give them cover to be a bully. Unions help protect the bullies and the incompetent in law enforcement and other fields. So let's attack police unions but pretend that they can't cause the same problems in other fields.
I keep hearing "the vast majority of cops are good" and yet more and more we are seeing that the vast majority isn't actually as vast as people want to think.

I have some pretty strong connections to the local metro PD around me. I would call half...MAYBE...of them "good ones"
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by UNI88 »

clenz wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:15 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:09 pm
How is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?

The vast majority of cops are good people trying to do the job right. Are there some bad apples? Yes. Are there more than other professions? Probably - I would guess that bullies are drawn to law enforcement because it can give them cover to be a bully. Unions help protect the bullies and the incompetent in law enforcement and other fields. So let's attack police unions but pretend that they can't cause the same problems in other fields.
I keep hearing "the vast majority of cops are good" and yet more and more we are seeing that the vast majority isn't actually as vast as people want to think.

I have some pretty strong connections to the local metro PD around me. I would call half...MAYBE...of them "good ones"
My experience is different. Maybe I'm wrong or maybe you're stereotyping cops similar to how bigots have stereotyped POC.

Regardless, none of that answers the questions of how is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?

The people suffering the most from defunding the police and the drop in police morale are the poor and less fortunate. That's going to get worse and at some point, the reduced protection is going to be called racist which will be ironic because the protection has been cut back in response to racism.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Gil Dobie »

AZGrizFan wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:09 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:49 am

Who do the people in these neighborhoods, with the violent crime call, when they see a crime? They don't call the cops, because they don't trust them, due the bias they have experienced. If we had better cops, that the community trusted, maybe the criminals would get caught after the first violent crime and not the 10th, or maybe even think twice about committing the crime. Police unions for one, have kept crappy cops like Chauvin, 18 complaints in 19 years, on the street. I tend to agree with Cleets, pay the cops more, and you will get better candidates and give them better training to start with.

There have been several studies that show Blacks are arrested more often, given longer sentences, higher bail and higher fines, that Whites that commit the same crime.
So basically, no matter what, it’s the COP’S fault. Brilliant.
No, city and unions fault, if anything.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Gil Dobie »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:09 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:49 am

Who do the people in these neighborhoods, with the violent crime call, when they see a crime? They don't call the cops, because they don't trust them, due the bias they have experienced. If we had better cops, that the community trusted, maybe the criminals would get caught after the first violent crime and not the 10th, or maybe even think twice about committing the crime. Police unions for one, have kept crappy cops like Chauvin, 18 complaints in 19 years, on the street. I tend to agree with Cleets, pay the cops more, and you will get better candidates and give them better training to start with.

There have been several studies that show Blacks are arrested more often, given longer sentences, higher bail and higher fines, that Whites that commit the same crime.
How is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?

The vast majority of cops are good people trying to do the job right. Are there some bad apples? Yes. Are there more than other professions? Probably - I would guess that bullies are drawn to law enforcement because it can give them cover to be a bully. Unions help protect the bullies and the incompetent in law enforcement and other fields. So let's attack police unions but pretend that they can't cause the same problems in other fields.
Basically my point. Not just the police, but the entire legal system has treated Blacks worse.
Last edited by Gil Dobie on Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

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houndawg wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:01 pm
SDHornet wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:39 am

So the fentanyl in Floyd's system had no impact on his ability to breathe?

Also I think the cop weighed about 145 lbs plus whatever gear he had on. 500 lbs? Didn't you take a physics class once-upon-a-time?
Yes, I've taken some physics classes. You?

All three cops had their full weight on him and he was hancuffed face down while he begged for his life for 9 minutes. 3 cops averaging 160 lbs. each dressed is close to 500 lbs. PM me if you would like some help with the math.
I'd love me some math please, because unless the 160 lbs cops were directly over Floyd's body, there is no way in hell they delivered 480lbs of force upon him.

Is this SIU math?
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

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Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:49 am
Pwns wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:46 am Meanwhile, it will take many years for the number of unjustifiable killings of black people by police to catch up with the spike in homicide deaths almost surely stemming from local and state antagonization of police. The same kind that happened after Michael Brown was killed.

And it'll all be ignored because you can't build "waycism" narratives when black men are a vastly bigger danger to black men than police.
Who do the people in these neighborhoods, with the violent crime call, when they see a crime? They don't call the cops, because they don't trust them, due the bias they have experienced. If we had better cops, that the community trusted, maybe the criminals would get caught after the first violent crime and not the 10th, or maybe even think twice about committing the crime. Police unions for one, have kept crappy cops like Chauvin, 18 complaints in 19 years, on the street. I tend to agree with Cleets, pay the cops more, and you will get better candidates and give them better training to start with.

There have been several studies that show Blacks are arrested more often, given longer sentences, higher bail and higher fines, that Whites that commit the same crime.
It's a myth black people are more afraid of police than the criminals in their neighborhoods. Well, there are some, but they are a minority. The racism narrative mostly comes from white liberal dipshits like the Minneapolis city council who don't know any black people other than Oprah, Morgan Freeman, and Chloe from their book club.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Gil Dobie »

Pwns wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:07 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:49 am

Who do the people in these neighborhoods, with the violent crime call, when they see a crime? They don't call the cops, because they don't trust them, due the bias they have experienced. If we had better cops, that the community trusted, maybe the criminals would get caught after the first violent crime and not the 10th, or maybe even think twice about committing the crime. Police unions for one, have kept crappy cops like Chauvin, 18 complaints in 19 years, on the street. I tend to agree with Cleets, pay the cops more, and you will get better candidates and give them better training to start with.

There have been several studies that show Blacks are arrested more often, given longer sentences, higher bail and higher fines, that Whites that commit the same crime.
It's a myth black people are more afraid of police than the criminals in their neighborhoods. Well, there are some, but they are a minority. The racism narrative mostly comes from white liberal dipshits like the Minneapolis city council who don't know any black people other than Oprah, Morgan Freeman, and Chloe from their book club.
Not from the people I know. One person was on a bus full of people watching a guy get shot at a bus stop. The police couldn't find one person that said they saw the shooting. The Minnesota Supreme Court sponsored a study that found bias was real in the legal system. Blacks were treated more severely than whites that committed the same crime. The records are there for anyone to review.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by UNI88 »

Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:04 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:09 pm
How is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?

The vast majority of cops are good people trying to do the job right. Are there some bad apples? Yes. Are there more than other professions? Probably - I would guess that bullies are drawn to law enforcement because it can give them cover to be a bully. Unions help protect the bullies and the incompetent in law enforcement and other fields. So let's attack police unions but pretend that they can't cause the same problems in other fields.
Basically my point. Not just the police, but the entire legal system has treated Blacks worse.
So how is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Gil Dobie »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:48 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:04 pm

Basically my point. Not just the police, but the entire legal system has treated Blacks worse.
So how is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?
You tell me, I am for raising police pay, and against rioting and looting.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by AZGrizFan »

Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:04 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:09 pm

How is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?

The vast majority of cops are good people trying to do the job right. Are there some bad apples? Yes. Are there more than other professions? Probably - I would guess that bullies are drawn to law enforcement because it can give them cover to be a bully. Unions help protect the bullies and the incompetent in law enforcement and other fields. So let's attack police unions but pretend that they can't cause the same problems in other fields.
Basically my point. Not just the police, but the entire legal system has treated Blacks worse.
And we just made the poster child of that legal system the fucking Vice President of the United States. Kind of a mixed message we’re sending there, aint it?
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

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SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:06 pm
houndawg wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:01 pm

Yes, I've taken some physics classes. You?

All three cops had their full weight on him and he was hancuffed face down while he begged for his life for 9 minutes. 3 cops averaging 160 lbs. each dressed is close to 500 lbs. PM me if you would like some help with the math.
I'd love me some math please, because unless the 160 lbs cops were directly over Floyd's body, there is no way in hell they delivered 480lbs of force upon him.

Is this SIU math?
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

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UNI88 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:30 pm
clenz wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:15 pm

I keep hearing, "the vast majority of cops are good," and yet more and more, we are seeing that the vast majority isn't actually as vast as people want to think.

I have some pretty strong connections to the local metro PD around me. I would call half...MAYBE...of them "good ones."
My experience is different. Maybe I'm wrong or maybe you're stereotyping cops similar to how bigots have stereotyped POC.

Regardless, none of that answers the questions of how is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?

The people suffering the most from defunding the police and the drop in police morale are the poor and less fortunate. That's going to get worse and at some point, the reduced protection is going to be called racist which will be ironic because the protection has been cut back in response to racism.
I have the experiences that I have seen. I have my experiences and stories from police officers I know and have connections to. Hell, my ex-wife fucked around with one before she told me she wanted a divorce. I ended up hearing from that situation just how fucked the police system around here is

That wasn't news to me, though. The PD in this area is the same as it is in any "large" metro (get your shots in for my metro not being large-scaled for a population of states it's considered large).

You can tell me it's a "good cop just following bad system orders," and I wouldn't tell you you're wrong. I would tell you that I question how good those officers are if they are sworn to uphold the law but will willingly and happily enforce policies and patrol areas in a less than racially "fair" or proportional way.

For example, I can look at how the different school districts in my metro are treated, policed and how their graduates are viewed simply because of their school.

The district I, my kids, are in is seen as the rich kid snotty school. This is because the way the metro grew, white flight, etc., led everyone to want to live in Marion and commute to Cedar Rapids because Marion is/was a small suburb on the northeast side where "the trouble" wasn't. This led to all of the engineers for Rockwell Collins, or Collins Aerospace, or whatever they are called now, moving to Marion. It's maybe 10-15 minutes if you catch traffic bad to the Collins campus from almost anywhere in Marion. My district is one of the four largest in the state of Iowa and one of the two or three fastest-growing. My children are expected to graduate with classes of 1200+ compared to the 800 or so that exist now. Yet, because of housing prices, even at 1200 kids, it will be 96% white kids, with the vast majority of the minority group made up of South Asian children whose parents are engineers, medical professionals, or IT specialists.

Compare that to a school like Cedar Rapids, Washington, a school just north of "the ghetto" in Cedar Rapids (Again, make light of the Ghetto all you want - proportionally, it's the same as larger metros when scaled.). It is just north of downtown/old Cedar Rapids. This is a school that has produced NFL players Adrian Arrington, Frank Baker, Rob Bruggeman, Dedric Ward. Actor Ashton Kutcher, Don DeFore. A handful of MLB and ABA players. Grand Wood on the art side of things. Arthur Collins, the inventor, and person who created the previously mentioned Rockwell Collins. The guy who invented the modern trampoline. A school that has been named one of the top academic schools in the state of Iowa - and the #1 school more than a few times. The school is 40-45% minority (almost exclusively African American) in any given year.

I've worked at my kids' schools (specifically the high school as both a volunteer and a paid employee). It's no secret just how fucking shitty those kids are. The amount of drug use, alcohol abuse, sexual promiscuity-related issues (assault, teen pregnancies, abortions, etc.) is every bit as high as it is at Cedar Rapids, Washington. Do you want to guess as to which school has police patroling near it all day? Which schools graduates are seen as bright young minds and when they answer the question "Where did you go to school" and they answer are greeted with a response of "Oh, that's a great school." or "Oh, that's wonderful." Then what schools graduates are often dismissed as being lesser simply because they went to a school 4 miles SE from the school in Marion.

It is quite comparable to how police patrol cities, and in this specific case, how they responded to a call at that intersection in that neighborhood. Even if not KKK-style racist, they had in their minds before they even got on scene what would need to be done and that an extreme level of force would need to be used. They, specifically Chauvin and Thao (with his little dick syndrome trying to front up the crowd as he did), went into it wanting to show the crowd of minorities, or poor citizens that lived in that area, how big and bad they were simply because of the neighborhood it was taking place in. They went in with the plan of using as much force as they could, short of firing live rounds or using a baton, on him to prove their point to anyone watching. Hell, look at the fuckers in the news right not from Virginia that a minority lieutenant is suing because of how they approached his vehicle. How they told him "he should be scared for his life."; how he was pepper-sprayed at point-blank range, having done nothing to provoke it. Ultimately having an officer tell him, "It's just hard to know if you are one of the good ones or the bad ones" when it came to his race.

I'm not going to speak for any of your questions on the riots or vandalism because I've not engaged in that discussion. After all, that's not what I'm talking about in regards to this case. What caused George Floyd's death, beyond Chauvin needlessly and brazenly carelessly, kneeling on his neck is the exact "systematic racism" that those who aren't rioting, vandalizing, and getting violent, have been protesting. It is that exact systematic racism (Oh, it's a black man in an area that is heavily minority, so we have to go in dick-swinging) that leads to the result of George Floyd being killed by Chauvin's action.

Hell, at this point in my life, I try to be as conscious of subconscious bias as I can be, and I still struggle with it. I understand that. I will never say "I don't see color" or "I don't have stereotypical/racist thoughts" because, unfortunately, I do. I instantly correct myself on them because it's not what I believe. It has been ingrained in my head as "reality" since I was a young child. I'm sure I've made minorities around me uncomfortable simply by making sure I do a quick wave or head nod at them because I don't want them to assume I'm just another white guy in Iowa that sees them as "Chicago cast-offs," which is a major stereotype that needs fighting in Cedar Rapids daily. Every time there is a story about a crime, 80% of the comments from old why conservative Karen and Keith are, "This is what we get for welcoming the Chicago gang bangers."

So no, I don't condone the violence and rioters. I never have. I never will. What I have said, going back to last summer, is I get why these feelings of anger exist within those communities. I get why they feel unheard. I get the feeling of "The people in charge have never listened to us when we try to speak when we try to do things "the way we are told. So now I'm going to make damn sure they can't ignore my voice anymore." I get it. I stand with them in that. I will march in protests alongside them because of that. I can't relate to that feeling, but I can use my ability as a highly educated straight male while helping them. Yes, there is some societal privilege to that when it comes to "getting things done." If that weren't the case, the percentage of non-straight white males in positions of power and influence would be much higher. Our country was literally built by straight white males and had the rules written to ensure the power of the straight, white, wealthy male. No, I won't join in when it comes to those setting buildings on fire, setting cars on fire, spray painting things, etc. Again, those aren't protesters. Those are rioters from both sides of the aisle taking advantage of a situation with an already short fuse.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by AZGrizFan »

Sounds to me like someone hates cops because his ex-wife fucked one.

Either that or you’ve drunk an incredibly large vat of koolaid. You’re now feeling guilty for giving a minority a head nod or a smile? Systemic racism has officially jumped the shark.

And after all those machinations and hoops attempting to “prove” systemic racism, I bet you STILL went out and voted for Biden/Harris, a woman who espouses the very systemic racism you abhor. She literally kept black men in prison past their release dates to ensure there was an adequate supply of cheap labor in California. How do you reconcile THAT at the voting booth, if you feel as strongly as you appear to about the ever present racism in society?
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by BDKJMU »

bobbythekidd wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:38 am Someone else said it like this...
If I drank 4 martinis and someone kneels on my neck for 9 minutes, it wasn't the martinis that killed me.
Yeah, fentanyl, martinis, what’s the difference..
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Winterborn »

AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:23 am Sounds to me like someone hates cops because his ex-wife fucked one.

Either that or you’ve drunk an incredibly large vat of koolaid. You’re now feeling guilty for giving a minority a head nod or a smile? Systemic racism has officially jumped the shark.

And after all those machinations and hoops attempting to “prove” systemic racism, I bet you STILL went out and voted for Biden/Harris, a woman who espouses the very systemic racism you abhor. She literally kept black men in prison past their release dates to ensure there was an adequate supply of cheap labor in California. How do you reconcile THAT at the voting booth, if you feel as strongly as you appear to about the ever present racism in society?
My experience with police officers is a complete 180 and I know over a dozen of them.

There are good cops, there are bad cops. Zero different than any other job or society at large. There are some that are doing their job just as their Chief wants them to because if they speak up they are black balled. Then there are the districts that are just following the city councils orders because that is where the donations/funds come from. The best areas are the ones the police are allowed to do their job without outside political influences and blaming those political influences on the officers is dishonest. Can they do a better job? Sure (cant we all?) but to paint all officers with the same brush is disingenuous.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by SeattleGriz »

Winterborn wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:23 am Sounds to me like someone hates cops because his ex-wife fucked one.

Either that or you’ve drunk an incredibly large vat of koolaid. You’re now feeling guilty for giving a minority a head nod or a smile? Systemic racism has officially jumped the shark.

And after all those machinations and hoops attempting to “prove” systemic racism, I bet you STILL went out and voted for Biden/Harris, a woman who espouses the very systemic racism you abhor. She literally kept black men in prison past their release dates to ensure there was an adequate supply of cheap labor in California. How do you reconcile THAT at the voting booth, if you feel as strongly as you appear to about the ever present racism in society?
My experience with police officers is a complete 180 and I know over a dozen of them.

There are good cops, there are bad cops. Zero different than any other job or society at large. There are some that are doing their job just as their Chief wants them to because if they speak up they are black balled. Then there are the districts that are just following the city councils orders because that is where the donations/funds come from. The best areas are the ones the police are allowed to do their job without outside political influences and blaming those political influences on the officers is dishonest. Can they do a better job? Sure (cant we all?) but to paint all officers with the same brush is disingenuous.
Same here, but all of my experiences involved me having my windows down, dome light on and license, registration and insurance in hand. Plus a whole lot of "yes sir, no sir". Outside of vehicles, the same thing. Listen to what they said and respond in a respectful manner. Been treated professionally every time.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by AZGrizFan »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:31 pm
Winterborn wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am

My experience with police officers is a complete 180 and I know over a dozen of them.

There are good cops, there are bad cops. Zero different than any other job or society at large. There are some that are doing their job just as their Chief wants them to because if they speak up they are black balled. Then there are the districts that are just following the city councils orders because that is where the donations/funds come from. The best areas are the ones the police are allowed to do their job without outside political influences and blaming those political influences on the officers is dishonest. Can they do a better job? Sure (cant we all?) but to paint all officers with the same brush is disingenuous.
Same here, but all of my experiences involved me having my windows down, dome light on and license, registration and insurance in hand. Plus a whole lot of "yes sir, no sir". Outside of vehicles, the same thing. Listen to what they said and respond in a respectful manner. Been treated professionally every time.
Well that’s just your white privilege showing through. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by SeattleGriz »

AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:44 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:31 pm

Same here, but all of my experiences involved me having my windows down, dome light on and license, registration and insurance in hand. Plus a whole lot of "yes sir, no sir". Outside of vehicles, the same thing. Listen to what they said and respond in a respectful manner. Been treated professionally every time.
Well that’s just your white privilege showing through. :lol: :lol:
:lol: I even used to "accidentally" have my Army Reserve card out as well! Lots of ex military out there.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:31 pm
Winterborn wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am

My experience with police officers is a complete 180 and I know over a dozen of them.

There are good cops, there are bad cops. Zero different than any other job or society at large. There are some that are doing their job just as their Chief wants them to because if they speak up they are black balled. Then there are the districts that are just following the city councils orders because that is where the donations/funds come from. The best areas are the ones the police are allowed to do their job without outside political influences and blaming those political influences on the officers is dishonest. Can they do a better job? Sure (cant we all?) but to paint all officers with the same brush is disingenuous.
Same here, but all of my experiences involved me having my windows down, dome light on and license, registration and insurance in hand. Plus a whole lot of "yes sir, no sir". Outside of vehicles, the same thing. Listen to what they said and respond in a respectful manner. Been treated professionally every time.
Windows down, arms out the window, following orders, not cursing them out, answering all questions, in his military uniform

Pulled over for a bullshit reason - told it wasn't possible to know if he was "one of the good ones or bad ones" of his race. Screaming at him to get out of the car - which would require him to put his hands in the vehicle to under his seatbelt and open the door all while screaminImage[/img]g at him to keep his hands outside of the window.

But yeah, this would 1000% happen to a white guy in uniform
Image

He was released on no charges after being put under a felony stop and placed under arrest and pepper sprayed


Maybe...just maybe...your interactions with police have been pleasant because you're a white person pulled over in a "decent neighborhood"


Video evidence is making it really hard to go with the "it's only like 2 or 3 cops that are bad"
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Winterborn »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:31 pm
Winterborn wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am

My experience with police officers is a complete 180 and I know over a dozen of them.

There are good cops, there are bad cops. Zero different than any other job or society at large. There are some that are doing their job just as their Chief wants them to because if they speak up they are black balled. Then there are the districts that are just following the city councils orders because that is where the donations/funds come from. The best areas are the ones the police are allowed to do their job without outside political influences and blaming those political influences on the officers is dishonest. Can they do a better job? Sure (cant we all?) but to paint all officers with the same brush is disingenuous.
Same here, but all of my experiences involved me having my windows down, dome light on and license, registration and insurance in hand. Plus a whole lot of "yes sir, no sir". Outside of vehicles, the same thing. Listen to what they said and respond in a respectful manner. Been treated professionally every time.
I have only been pulled over 5 times in my life (all deserved :nod: ) for speeding, but the ones I know are through their none work activities (martial arts, kids outreaches, etc). They have the same hopes, fears, concerns that we do and much of the topics that are brought up in this thread I have had discussions with them over the years on it and their view points are just as nuanced as the ones brought forth here. Almost all of the crap boils down to politics and that is out of the average officers hands.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Winterborn »

clenz wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:33 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:31 pm

Same here, but all of my experiences involved me having my windows down, dome light on and license, registration and insurance in hand. Plus a whole lot of "yes sir, no sir". Outside of vehicles, the same thing. Listen to what they said and respond in a respectful manner. Been treated professionally every time.
Windows down, arms out the window, following orders, not cursing them out, answering all questions, in his military uniform

Pulled over for a bullshit reason - told it wasn't possible to know if he was "one of the good ones or bad ones" of his race. Screaming at him to get out of the car - which would require him to put his hands in the vehicle to under his seatbelt and open the door all while screaminImage[/img]g at him to keep his hands outside of the window.

But yeah, this would 1000% happen to a white guy in uniform
Image

He was released on no charges after being put under a felony stop and placed under arrest and pepper sprayed


Maybe...just maybe...your interactions with police have been pleasant because you're a white person pulled over in a "decent neighborhood"


Video evidence is making it really hard to go with the "it's only like 2 or 3 cops that are bad"
Not denying there are not problem ones out there, but good news no matter what the topic doesn't sell papers or an agenda.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

There sure is a hell of a lot of "it's only just a couple bad apples" popping up now that cops are having their actions recorded

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And if we want to disregard the racial issues at the systematic level we can just turn it into cops are more likely (as admitted by someone else here) to draw people that are just assholes/bullies that want power.

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The difference you'll find in the extreme majority of cases when cops overreach their power and start to "bully" people is the end result and amount of physical force used to resolve the case. White people are far less likely to be physically manhandled the way George Floyd was - or any of the above videos. Whites are more likely to have it play out like the last video I posted.

I also watch a ton of police chases. I really enjoy them. I have multiple accounts I get push notifications from when they happen and have video coverage. There is a very significant difference for how aggressive the police will be at ending/apprehending the suspects based on race. One race is far more likely to be allowed a 3 hour chase with a 3 to to 4 hour standoff. One is far more likely to get hit with a PIT/spikes super early on and not allowed a the same kind of standoff. SWAT called almost instantly, windows of the car shot out, K9s used, etc.

I'm not ACAB. I am "There are a fuck ton more "bastards" than you want to believe" and I'm 100% on the side of making god damn sure those bastards never get to wear a badge or walk free again.


As for the bitter because my cunt of an ex fucked around with a cop - I didn't find that out until well after my opinion on the Floyd case was formed.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

The ironic thing is I get told I only hate cops because my ex fucked one while we were married

Yet, I've laid out plenty of reasonable statements and evidence (anecdotal and verifiable) in a way that is not argumentative at all. In a tone that isn't "ACAB" or "I hate all cops and want them to die". I laid out very clearly that even if a cop is "I hate blacks/KKK" racist they have built in bias that is only heightened by the systematic bullshit put in place by police unions, police chiefs, politicians, etc. and rather than doing anything to prevent it from getting worse they get caught up in us vs them narrative and take their actions a step further than needed to prove how tough they are.

There are plenty of good officers.

There is also a SIGNIFICANT number of officers - especially patrol - that are power-hungry, peaked in high school, bullies who just want to make sure everyone knows how big their dick is and how much power they have over someone.

Again, pull the race issue out of it if you want. The growing amount of evidence it is more than "just a couple bad apples" is growing daily at a pretty high rate now that people have cameras at their access 24/7 and can record police abusing power. They also abuse whites, asains, latino, etc. It just so happens certain groups get it worse than others.


Hell, just look at immigration-related issues. If someone tells you "illegal immigrants took my job" you instantly picture someone of Latin/African descent. Never are illegals from Australia, Denmark, Germany, France, etc. in the first 10 countries/nationalities someone goes to when they hear about "Illegal immigration and the crime they cause".

Trump's immigration ban on specific countries was due entirely due to Muslim fear and not to cut down on anything other than having brown Muslims in this country. He couldn't ban Muslims like he tried so he tied it to some bullshit narrative to pass it on certain countries. Turns out while it cut down on refugees by about 2/3 it has no impact on crime.

Trump's stated reason for issuing the executive order was to prevent terrorism. An internal report compiled by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security Intelligence and Analysis Unit, however, concluded that people from the seven nations affected by the travel ban pose no increased terror risk. The report found that "country of citizenship is unlikely to be a reliable indicator of potential terrorist activity" and that few individuals from the seven affected countries access the U.S. in any case, since the State Department grants a small number of visas to citizens of those countries." The report found that of 82 people determined to have inspired by a foreign terrorist organization "to carry out or try to carry out an attack in the United States, just over half were U.S. citizens born in the United States," while the rest came from a group of 26 countries, only two of which were among the seven nations included in the ban.


Again, it goes back to policies that create the system, which is why I don't go straight to ACAB. The policies in place that create the response of a patrol officer to respond in the way they do are long-standing and rooted in ideas that weren't born out of racial equality. It's up to each individual officer to decide if they are a "bastard" or not. We are seeing a hell of a lot more than "a couple" are indeed bastards that get protected by any number of groups (on both sides of the political spectrum).
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