Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

[UNI88]

clenz, I don't disagree with much of what you've posted.

I think Chauvin is a scumbag. I don't know beyond a reasonable doubt if he killed Floyd (I'm not watching the trial) but I'm positive that he used unnecessary force and should have the book thrown at him as a result.

Unconscious (or implicit) bias - it's not a white person thing, it's a human thing. Everyone has it to greater or lesser degrees. We're all a little xenophobic and tend to be more comfortable around people that look like us. I experienced it when I lived in Chicago's Austin neighborhood where I was a minority. I also think there is a nurture aspect to it where we pick up on our parent's biases.

As I've said, I'm disappointed in the liberal leaders who fanned the flames that led to the riots and looting. Protests are fine but many of them helped to instigate the rioting and looting just as much as Trump did the Capitol riot. They should be held just as accountable. I also live in Portland where AnTiFa/BLM rioters are held to a much lower standard than the Proud Boys/Patriot Prayer. I am all for equity but I will not support or condone retribution and creating a new class of victims. I also think it's hypocritical BS when the instigators profit from their actions (rumor that BLM founder Patrisse Cullors bought a $1.4 million dollar home in California).

I do think POC are mistreated by law enforcement more often than white people. But how often does it really happen? You've shown us a bunch of videos - that's anecdotal evidence. What do the statistics say?

We need police reform to save lives and rebuild trust in minority communities but rioting and looting is counterproductive.

[bobbythekidd]

Someone else said it like this...
If I drank 4 martinis and someone kneels on my neck for 9 minutes, it wasn't the martinis that killed me.

Yeah, fentanyl, martinis, what’s the difference..

You misspelled both murder and homicide.

[clenz]

clenz, I don't disagree with much of what you've posted.

I think Chauvin is a scumbag. I don't know beyond a reasonable doubt if he killed Floyd (I'm not watching the trial) but I'm positive that he used unnecessary force and should have the book thrown at him as a result.

Unconscious (or implicit) bias - it's not a white person thing, it's a human thing. Everyone has it to greater or lesser degrees. We're all a little xenophobic and tend to be more comfortable around people that look like us. I experienced it when I lived in Chicago's Austin neighborhood where I was a minority. I also think there is a nurture aspect to it where we pick up on our parent's biases.

As I've said, I'm disappointed in the liberal leaders who fanned the flames that led to the riots and looting. Protests are fine but many of them helped to instigate the rioting and looting just as much as Trump did the Capitol riot. They should be held just as accountable. I also live in Portland where AnTiFa/BLM rioters are held to a much lower standard than the Proud Boys/Patriot Prayer. I am all for equity but I will not support or condone retribution and creating a new class of victims. I also think it's hypocritical BS when the instigators profit from their actions (rumor that BLM founder Patrisse Cullors bought a $1.4 million dollar home in California).

I do think POC are mistreated by law enforcement more often than white people. But how often does it really happen? You've shown us a bunch of videos - that's anecdotal evidence. What do the statistics say?

We need police reform to save lives and rebuild trust in minority communities but rioting and looting is counterproductive.

Gil has pointed to the stats, and I could post them, but they've already been washed away as biased and not representative of the full nature of crimes.


Oh - and in shocking news (re: not at all), the Minneapolis area (Brooklyn Park) police departments are at it again killing another minority today. We'll have to wait to hear what happened but initial reports aren't looking good for the PD once again.

So far we know the 20 year old African American male was pulled over, asked for insurance and called his mom for the insurance information as it was her car and he wasn't able to find it. While on the phone the next thing the mother reports hearing is a scrum and then a gun shot that killed the man.

I'm sure there will be a fuck ton more coming out of this, but it sounds like there was no booze/drugs involved. So far sounds like he was unarmed. Body and dash cams were active. If I were ACAB, I'd be joining the protestors and rioters that are out in the streets in Brooklyn Park right now. I'm not. I want to see more come out of this, but I'm going to have a very hard time believing shooting him (and it sounds like in the back) was justified. Also sounds very similar to situations in the past where we've seen white people do very similar things that the story has this man doing and walking away without being shot.

[clenz]

If I hated every profession my wife cheated on me with I'd hate the police, locksmiths, pilots, cashiers, uber drivers, bix box store employees, and...well...it would be faster for me to say "anyone with a penis". Her body count wasn't low when we met and got married - and somehow she managed to more than double it in just a few months before telling me she wanted a divorce and a few months after.

[clenz]

As far as wanting stats - I guess I'll wait for people to tell me how made up these are

In terms of perception - the overwhelming majority of American's view things similar to the way Gil and I have pointed out

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

Majorities of both black and white Americans say black people are treated less fairly than whites in dealing with the police and by the criminal justice system as a whole. In a 2019 Center survey, 84% of black adults said that, in dealing with police, blacks are generally treated less fairly than whites; 63% of whites said the same. Similarly, 87% of blacks and 61% of whites said the U.S. criminal justice system treats black people less fairly.

Black adults are about five times as likely as whites to say they’ve been unfairly stopped by police because of their race or ethnicity (44% vs. 9%), according to the same survey. Black men are especially likely to say this: 59% say they’ve been unfairly stopped, versus 31% of black women.

White Democrats and white Republicans have vastly different views of how black people are treated by police and the wider justice system. Overwhelming majorities of white Democrats say black people are treated less fairly than whites by the police (88%) and the criminal justice system (86%), according to the 2019 poll. About four-in-ten white Republicans agree (43% and 39%, respectively).

Nearly two-thirds of black adults (65%) say they’ve been in situations where people acted as if they were suspicious of them because of their race or ethnicity, while only a quarter of white adults say that’s happened to them. Roughly a third of both Asian and Hispanic adults (34% and 37%, respectively) say they’ve been in such situations, the 2019 survey found.

Black Americans are far less likely than whites to give police high marks for the way they do their jobs. In a 2016 survey, only about a third of black adults said that police in their community did an “excellent” or “good” job in using the right amount of force (33%, compared with 75% of whites), treating racial and ethnic groups equally (35% vs. 75%), and holding officers accountable for misconduct (31% vs. 70%).

In the past, police officers and the general public have tended to view fatal encounters between black people and police very differently. In a 2016 survey of nearly 8,000 policemen and women from departments with at least 100 officers, two-thirds said most such encounters are isolated incidents and not signs of broader problems between police and the black community. In a companion survey of more than 4,500 U.S. adults, 60% of the public called such incidents signs of broader problems between police and black people. But the views given by police themselves were sharply differentiated by race: A majority of black officers (57%) said that such incidents were evidence of a broader problem, but only 27% of white officers and 26% of Hispanic officers said so.

Around two-thirds of police officers (68%) said in 2016 that the demonstrations over the deaths of black people during encounters with law enforcement were motivated to a great extent by anti-police bias; only 10% said (in a separate question) that protesters were primarily motivated by a genuine desire to hold police accountable for their actions. Here as elsewhere, police officers’ views differed by race: Only about a quarter of white officers (27%) but around six-in-ten of their black colleagues (57%) said such protests were motivated at least to some extent by a genuine desire to hold police accountable.

White police officers and their black colleagues have starkly different views on fundamental questions regarding the situation of blacks in American society, the 2016 survey found. For example, nearly all white officers (92%) – but only 29% of their black colleagues – said the U.S. had made the changes needed to assure equal rights for blacks.

A majority of officers said in 2016 that relations between the police in their department and black people in the community they serve were “excellent” (8%) or “good” (47%). However, far higher shares saw excellent or good community relations with whites (91%), Asians (88%) and Hispanics (70%). About a quarter of police officers (26%) said relations between police and black people in their community were “only fair,” while nearly one-in-five (18%) said they were “poor” – with black officers far more likely than others to say so. (These percentages are based on only those officers who offered a rating.)

Self report, I'm sure you'll use to discredit that

How about a research study done by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences done in 2019

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Significance
Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police. Risk of being killed by police peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for men and women and for all racial and ethnic groups. Black women and men and American Indian and Alaska Native women and men are significantly more likely than white women and men to be killed by police. Latino men are also more likely to be killed by police than are white men.

Results
Fig. 1 displays estimates of lifetime risk of being killed by police use of force by race and sex, using data from 2013 to 2018. We estimate that over the life course, at levels of risk similar to those observed between 2013 and 2018, about 52 [39, 68] (90% uncertainty interval) of every 100,000 men and boys in the United States will be killed by police use of force over the life course, and about 3 [1.5, 4.5] of every 100,000 women and girls will be killed by police over the life course.


Fig. 2 displays the ratio of lifetime risk for each racial–ethnic group relative to risk for whites for both men and women. Note that a rate ratio of 1 indicates equality in mortality risk relative to whites. The highest levels of inequality in mortality risk are experienced by black men. Black men are about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police over the life course than are white men. Black women are about 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are white women. Although risks are estimated with less precision for American Indian/Alaska Native men and women than for other groups, we show that they face a higher lifetime risk of being killed by police than do whites. American Indian men are between 1.2 and 1.7 times more likely to be killed by police than are white men, and American Indian women are between 1.1 and 2.1 times more likely to be killed by police than are white women. Latino men are between 1.3 and 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are white men, but Latina women are between 12% and 23% less likely to be killed by police than are white women. Both Asian/Pacific Islander men and women are more than 50% less likely to be killed by police than are white men and women, respectively.



Fig. 5 displays the ratio of police use-of-force deaths to all deaths by age, sex, and race. Police use of force accounts for 0.05% of all male deaths in the United States and 0.003% of all female deaths, a low overall share. However, this ratio is strongly correlated with age and race and is starkly unequal across racial groups. Police use of force is responsible for 1.6% of all deaths involving black men between the ages of 20 y and 24 y. At this age range, police are responsible for 1.2% of American Indian/Alaska Native male deaths, 0.5% of Asian/Pacific Islander male deaths, 1.2% of Latino male deaths, and 0.5% of white male deaths. For women between the ages of 20 y and 24 y, police use of force is responsible for 0.2% of all deaths of black women, 0.2% of all deaths of American Indian/Alaska Native women, 0.05% of all deaths of Asian/Pacific Islander women, 0.16% of all deaths of Latina women, and 0.11% of all deaths of white women.


Discussion
Our analysis shows that the risk of being killed by police is jointly patterned by one’s race, gender, and age. Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men, and young men of color face exceptionally high risk of being killed by police. Inequalities in risk are pronounced throughout the life course. This study reinforces calls to treat police violence as a public health issue (1, 4). Racially unequal exposure to the risk of state violence has profound consequences for public health, democracy, and racial stratification (5, 7⇓–9, 11).

...

The absence of authoritative official data is a key challenge in reducing police violence. The Bureau of Justice Statistics should renew efforts to develop comprehensive systems to track officer-involved deaths (4, 40). Both the public interest and social science are served by increasing transparency with regard to police use of force. Using such data, the research community has made strides in identifying officers most at risk of being involved in cases of excessive force (41) and system failures that result in civilian deaths (42).

While our research does not evaluate the effects of policy, we believe that several avenues of reform may be fruitful in reducing rates of death. Austerity in social welfare and public health programs has led to police and prisons becoming catch-all responses to social problems (43, 44). Adequately funding community-based services and restricting the use of armed officers as first responders to mental health and other forms of crisis would likely reduce the volume of people killed by police (44). Increasing the ability of the public to engage in the regulation of policing through both investigatory commissions with disciplinary teeth and equal participation in police union contract negotiations would also likely reduce rates of death (45).

Or this research study which looked at the institutional and policy level impact on why police use force/kill minorities more than whites

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... puar.12956
That is, while only about 13 percent of the American population is black, 28 percent of people
killed by police are black. Latinos are killed slightly more often
than we would expect and white citizens considerably less often,
while Asian Americans are killed by police far less often than we
would expect if killings were randomly distributed throughout the
population.

....

To be very clear, we are not arguing that the disproportionate killing
of black suspects is racially innocuous. Indeed, law enforcement
officers of all races disproportionately kill black suspects. The killing
of black suspects is a police problem, not a white police problem.
We believe that the disproportionate killing of black suspects is
a downstream effect of institutionalized racism in macro-level
criminal policy and meso-level organizational factors within many
police departments. Put differently, our research contributes to the
perspective that persistent racial disparities in police killings are
driven primarily by prior disparities in racial policing generally:
disproportionate killing is a function of disproportionate police
contact among members of the African American community.
In this light, the finding that minority police officers are actually
more likely to kill minority suspects is not surprising, given that
many police departments make efforts to assign minority police to
minority neighborhoods.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph- ... disparity/
Black Americans are 3.23 times more likely than white Americans to be killed by police, according to a new study by researchers from Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. The researchers examined 5,494 police-related deaths in the U.S. between 2013 and 2017. Rates of deadly police encounters were higher in the West and South than in the Midwest and Northeast, according to the study. Racial disparities in killings by police varied widely across the country, with some metropolitan areas showing very high differences between treatment by race. Black Chicagoans, for example, were found to be over 650% more likely to be killed by police than white Chicagoans.

This one doesn't even look at just killings - but use of force as an entirety. Many of these discussions and data points are involving only those shot which can be excused away by the Back the Blue crowd to make it seem like everything is perfect. This one looks at shooting/killings but focused heavily on the broader use of force at all.

https://davis-center.williams.edu/files ... s-Race.pdf

This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force,
blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force
in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian
behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force –
officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual
factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a
model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for
discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.

And again, if we want to pretend race doesn't play a part in it we are still left with study after study after study after study on the extreme use of force by police regardless of race, and how "a few bad apples" turns into looking at the "bad apples' on a spectrum of being really shit - Chauvin - to still being bad but not killing people bad. You know, the abusive power-hungry kind that will try to lie to an uber driver about what he can and can't record as a way to intimidate him - or will pull over the state attorney because "windows looked dark even though I don't have a tint meter".


It's why trying to paint me as a "BLM/ANTIFA TERRORIST WHO JUST HATES COPS AND HAS WHITE GUILT" isn't going to work. I'm not beholding to any political ideology when it comes to the police. Yes, I am a more liberal person and in general, will side with the "Uh, it's more than a couple of bad apples" side far more than "IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SHOT DON'T EVEN DRIVE IN FRONT OF A COP" crowd that exists. I'm not "ACAB". In reference to the police chases I've mentioned before, I have never once wanted the chase suspects to get away and am rarely in the "You didn't need to be so rough" when taking them into custody. I am, however, someone that notices the difference in how the various PDs I watch in chases (90% are in the LA metro, but a fair number through Texas, Arizona, Oklahoma, and Florida) will treat suspects of various crimes and races.

[andy7171]

clenzy is the new JSO

[clenz]

I was asked to provide sources, and thus a longer explanation regarding my stance.

JSO simply makes long winded posts with dozens of meaningless stats because he feels like it.

I wasn't going to go pull academic style research studies, but I was specifically asked to provide numbers. Rather than using things like Washington Post, Vox, New York Times, New York Post, Buzzfeed, CNN, MSNBC, etc. that the Back the Blue Trumpers would immediately go "LIBERAL RAG PIECES WITH FLAWED DATA" I specifically looked for empirical data present without opinion around it.

[89Hen]

TLDR but that may be what you were going for.

*beholden

[clenz]

I was going for answering the question presented to me.

If you're too fucking lazy to actually read the responses to questions presented that's on you

[89Hen]

You posted somebody else's answers. Sorry I'm not interested in reading every article posted here.

[clenz]

You're interested in going out of your way to acknowledge them - including a correction that would have required you to read the post - and make a comment on it.

I'm not interested in the BLM/Antifa arguments happening in this thread. Notice how easy it is to not go "TL;DR BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED" after every post on that side of the discussion

[Pwns]

You can't talk about death rates to police without discussing behavior. Black people are more likely to resist arrest and act aggressively towards police than whites are. It's consistent with the higher rates of violent crime blacks commit. The FBI crime stats and DoJ crime victims survey both confirm that - there's no racism behind higher rates of incarceration for violent crimes.

Like I said, it's fine to talk about changing rules of engagement for police with civilians and have more accountability, but pretending like police are the biggest problem and not criminals is going to continue to do more harm than good. Ask yourselves why we had spikes in violent crimes after the two most publicized shooting of black men (Mike Brown and George Floyd) but didn't have that spike during the recession after the financial crisis.

[89Hen]

You're interested in going out of your way to acknowledge them - including a correction that would have required you to read the post - and make a comment on it.

I'm not interested in the BLM/Antifa arguments happening in this thread. Notice how easy it is to not go "TL;DR BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED" after every post on that side of the discussion

You're way too impassioned on this clenz. You like to tell everyone else to fuck off very quickly. Doesn't make for good conversation.

[SDHornet]

This. I'm not cheering for the cops, fuck cops. I am absolutely loving the blm narratives about this whole ordeal completely implode and people understanding that all that rioting was incited by lies and false narratives. Curious to see the level of rioting seen when this is all over, 'cause there will be rioting no matter what the outcome.

Oh, and:

That comment is just a snippet of what he said. He said if he had found him home alone and dead; the ME would have to rule that it was the drugs because there isn't anything else that influenced the death. THAT WASN'T THE CASE HERE SO I KNOW WHAT CAUSED THE DEATH.

The cop is going down because he and a couple others killed a man. The others better go down as well. You need to shut the hell up because you are wrong here.

Defense just needs to create reasonable doubt. A lethal dose of drugs was in Floyd system and he had a history of drug related health issues. According to the judge, those are facts relevant to this case.

I couldn't care less about Chauvin. He was a bad cop that shouldn't have been allowed to be a cop, but as CID pointed out that is a public employee union issue. He'll probably be convicted to stem any potential riots (let's be real, there will be riots regardless) and also because the jurors don't want to fear for their lives if they don't as national media has already opened to door to doxing them.

[89Hen]

including a correction that would have required you to read the post - and make a comment on it.

BTW, I read what YOU wrote because I'm more interested in the opinions of folks on this board than a cut and paste article.

[SDHornet]

So the fentanyl in Floyd's system had no impact on his ability to breathe?

Also I think the cop weighed about 145 lbs plus whatever gear he had on. 500 lbs? Didn't you take a physics class once-upon-a-time?

Yes, I've taken some physics classes. You?

All three cops had their full weight on him and he was hancuffed face down while he begged for his life for 9 minutes. 3 cops averaging 160 lbs. each dressed is close to 500 lbs. PM me if you would like some help with the math.

Yes, 2 of them plus dynamics and a statics course (and some structures to boot). Not all that weight was on his "neck area". Be better.

[SDHornet]

clenz, I don't disagree with much of what you've posted.

I think Chauvin is a scumbag. I don't know beyond a reasonable doubt if he killed Floyd (I'm not watching the trial) but I'm positive that he used unnecessary force and should have the book thrown at him as a result.

Unconscious (or implicit) bias - it's not a white person thing, it's a human thing. Everyone has it to greater or lesser degrees. We're all a little xenophobic and tend to be more comfortable around people that look like us. I experienced it when I lived in Chicago's Austin neighborhood where I was a minority. I also think there is a nurture aspect to it where we pick up on our parent's biases.

As I've said, I'm disappointed in the liberal leaders who fanned the flames that led to the riots and looting. Protests are fine but many of them helped to instigate the rioting and looting just as much as Trump did the Capitol riot. They should be held just as accountable. I also live in Portland where AnTiFa/BLM rioters are held to a much lower standard than the Proud Boys/Patriot Prayer. I am all for equity but I will not support or condone retribution and creating a new class of victims. I also think it's hypocritical BS when the instigators profit from their actions (rumor that BLM founder Patrisse Cullors bought a $1.4 million dollar home in California).

I do think POC are mistreated by law enforcement more often than white people. But how often does it really happen? You've shown us a bunch of videos - that's anecdotal evidence. What do the statistics say?

We need police reform to save lives and rebuild trust in minority communities but rioting and looting is counterproductive.

Marxists gonna Marxist.

[SDHornet]

You're interested in going out of your way to acknowledge them - including a correction that would have required you to read the post - and make a comment on it.

I'm not interested in the BLM/Antifa arguments happening in this thread. Notice how easy it is to not go "TL;DR BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED" after every post on that side of the discussion

You're way too impassioned on this clenz. You like to tell everyone else to fuck off very quickly. Doesn't make for good conversation.

It is entertaining though, no?

[clenz]

Yet another medical professional just testified that based on findings the opiates in his system played no role in his death. Based on records he stated it was clear he had built up a high tolerance just through his usage. Pointed to a previous ER trip where George Floyd admitted to having taken 8 percoset pills in a two-hour span, was monitored, and released. Almost mentioned that an OD on the drugs that the claim he would have OD on would have presented itself in the exact opposite way that George Floyd acted. It would have caused him to be unresponsive, unable to stand, unable to stay conscious, unable to fight back as the defense claims he was doing, unable to speak at all.

[UNI88]

As far as wanting stats - I guess I'll wait for people to tell me how made up these are

In terms of perception - the overwhelming majority of American's view things similar to the way Gil and I have pointed out

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

Majorities of both black and white Americans say black people are treated less fairly than whites in dealing with the police and by the criminal justice system as a whole. In a 2019 Center survey, 84% of black adults said that, in dealing with police, blacks are generally treated less fairly than whites; 63% of whites said the same. Similarly, 87% of blacks and 61% of whites said the U.S. criminal justice system treats black people less fairly.

Black adults are about five times as likely as whites to say they’ve been unfairly stopped by police because of their race or ethnicity (44% vs. 9%), according to the same survey. Black men are especially likely to say this: 59% say they’ve been unfairly stopped, versus 31% of black women.

White Democrats and white Republicans have vastly different views of how black people are treated by police and the wider justice system. Overwhelming majorities of white Democrats say black people are treated less fairly than whites by the police (88%) and the criminal justice system (86%), according to the 2019 poll. About four-in-ten white Republicans agree (43% and 39%, respectively).

Nearly two-thirds of black adults (65%) say they’ve been in situations where people acted as if they were suspicious of them because of their race or ethnicity, while only a quarter of white adults say that’s happened to them. Roughly a third of both Asian and Hispanic adults (34% and 37%, respectively) say they’ve been in such situations, the 2019 survey found.

Black Americans are far less likely than whites to give police high marks for the way they do their jobs. In a 2016 survey, only about a third of black adults said that police in their community did an “excellent” or “good” job in using the right amount of force (33%, compared with 75% of whites), treating racial and ethnic groups equally (35% vs. 75%), and holding officers accountable for misconduct (31% vs. 70%).

In the past, police officers and the general public have tended to view fatal encounters between black people and police very differently. In a 2016 survey of nearly 8,000 policemen and women from departments with at least 100 officers, two-thirds said most such encounters are isolated incidents and not signs of broader problems between police and the black community. In a companion survey of more than 4,500 U.S. adults, 60% of the public called such incidents signs of broader problems between police and black people. But the views given by police themselves were sharply differentiated by race: A majority of black officers (57%) said that such incidents were evidence of a broader problem, but only 27% of white officers and 26% of Hispanic officers said so.

Around two-thirds of police officers (68%) said in 2016 that the demonstrations over the deaths of black people during encounters with law enforcement were motivated to a great extent by anti-police bias; only 10% said (in a separate question) that protesters were primarily motivated by a genuine desire to hold police accountable for their actions. Here as elsewhere, police officers’ views differed by race: Only about a quarter of white officers (27%) but around six-in-ten of their black colleagues (57%) said such protests were motivated at least to some extent by a genuine desire to hold police accountable.

White police officers and their black colleagues have starkly different views on fundamental questions regarding the situation of blacks in American society, the 2016 survey found. For example, nearly all white officers (92%) – but only 29% of their black colleagues – said the U.S. had made the changes needed to assure equal rights for blacks.

A majority of officers said in 2016 that relations between the police in their department and black people in the community they serve were “excellent” (8%) or “good” (47%). However, far higher shares saw excellent or good community relations with whites (91%), Asians (88%) and Hispanics (70%). About a quarter of police officers (26%) said relations between police and black people in their community were “only fair,” while nearly one-in-five (18%) said they were “poor” – with black officers far more likely than others to say so. (These percentages are based on only those officers who offered a rating.)

Self report, I'm sure you'll use to discredit that

How about a research study done by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences done in 2019

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Significance
Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police. Risk of being killed by police peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for men and women and for all racial and ethnic groups. Black women and men and American Indian and Alaska Native women and men are significantly more likely than white women and men to be killed by police. Latino men are also more likely to be killed by police than are white men.

Results
Fig. 1 displays estimates of lifetime risk of being killed by police use of force by race and sex, using data from 2013 to 2018. We estimate that over the life course, at levels of risk similar to those observed between 2013 and 2018, about 52 [39, 68] (90% uncertainty interval) of every 100,000 men and boys in the United States will be killed by police use of force over the life course, and about 3 [1.5, 4.5] of every 100,000 women and girls will be killed by police over the life course.


Fig. 2 displays the ratio of lifetime risk for each racial–ethnic group relative to risk for whites for both men and women. Note that a rate ratio of 1 indicates equality in mortality risk relative to whites. The highest levels of inequality in mortality risk are experienced by black men. Black men are about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police over the life course than are white men. Black women are about 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are white women. Although risks are estimated with less precision for American Indian/Alaska Native men and women than for other groups, we show that they face a higher lifetime risk of being killed by police than do whites. American Indian men are between 1.2 and 1.7 times more likely to be killed by police than are white men, and American Indian women are between 1.1 and 2.1 times more likely to be killed by police than are white women. Latino men are between 1.3 and 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are white men, but Latina women are between 12% and 23% less likely to be killed by police than are white women. Both Asian/Pacific Islander men and women are more than 50% less likely to be killed by police than are white men and women, respectively.



Fig. 5 displays the ratio of police use-of-force deaths to all deaths by age, sex, and race. Police use of force accounts for 0.05% of all male deaths in the United States and 0.003% of all female deaths, a low overall share. However, this ratio is strongly correlated with age and race and is starkly unequal across racial groups. Police use of force is responsible for 1.6% of all deaths involving black men between the ages of 20 y and 24 y. At this age range, police are responsible for 1.2% of American Indian/Alaska Native male deaths, 0.5% of Asian/Pacific Islander male deaths, 1.2% of Latino male deaths, and 0.5% of white male deaths. For women between the ages of 20 y and 24 y, police use of force is responsible for 0.2% of all deaths of black women, 0.2% of all deaths of American Indian/Alaska Native women, 0.05% of all deaths of Asian/Pacific Islander women, 0.16% of all deaths of Latina women, and 0.11% of all deaths of white women.


Discussion
Our analysis shows that the risk of being killed by police is jointly patterned by one’s race, gender, and age. Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men, and young men of color face exceptionally high risk of being killed by police. Inequalities in risk are pronounced throughout the life course. This study reinforces calls to treat police violence as a public health issue (1, 4). Racially unequal exposure to the risk of state violence has profound consequences for public health, democracy, and racial stratification (5, 7⇓–9, 11).

...

The absence of authoritative official data is a key challenge in reducing police violence. The Bureau of Justice Statistics should renew efforts to develop comprehensive systems to track officer-involved deaths (4, 40). Both the public interest and social science are served by increasing transparency with regard to police use of force. Using such data, the research community has made strides in identifying officers most at risk of being involved in cases of excessive force (41) and system failures that result in civilian deaths (42).

While our research does not evaluate the effects of policy, we believe that several avenues of reform may be fruitful in reducing rates of death. Austerity in social welfare and public health programs has led to police and prisons becoming catch-all responses to social problems (43, 44). Adequately funding community-based services and restricting the use of armed officers as first responders to mental health and other forms of crisis would likely reduce the volume of people killed by police (44). Increasing the ability of the public to engage in the regulation of policing through both investigatory commissions with disciplinary teeth and equal participation in police union contract negotiations would also likely reduce rates of death (45).

Or this research study which looked at the institutional and policy level impact on why police use force/kill minorities more than whites

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... puar.12956
That is, while only about 13 percent of the American population is black, 28 percent of people
killed by police are black. Latinos are killed slightly more often
than we would expect and white citizens considerably less often,
while Asian Americans are killed by police far less often than we
would expect if killings were randomly distributed throughout the
population.

....

To be very clear, we are not arguing that the disproportionate killing
of black suspects is racially innocuous. Indeed, law enforcement
officers of all races disproportionately kill black suspects. The killing
of black suspects is a police problem, not a white police problem.
We believe that the disproportionate killing of black suspects is
a downstream effect of institutionalized racism in macro-level
criminal policy and meso-level organizational factors within many
police departments. Put differently, our research contributes to the
perspective that persistent racial disparities in police killings are
driven primarily by prior disparities in racial policing generally:
disproportionate killing is a function of disproportionate police
contact among members of the African American community.
In this light, the finding that minority police officers are actually
more likely to kill minority suspects is not surprising, given that
many police departments make efforts to assign minority police to
minority neighborhoods.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph- ... disparity/
Black Americans are 3.23 times more likely than white Americans to be killed by police, according to a new study by researchers from Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. The researchers examined 5,494 police-related deaths in the U.S. between 2013 and 2017. Rates of deadly police encounters were higher in the West and South than in the Midwest and Northeast, according to the study. Racial disparities in killings by police varied widely across the country, with some metropolitan areas showing very high differences between treatment by race. Black Chicagoans, for example, were found to be over 650% more likely to be killed by police than white Chicagoans.

This one doesn't even look at just killings - but use of force as an entirety. Many of these discussions and data points are involving only those shot which can be excused away by the Back the Blue crowd to make it seem like everything is perfect. This one looks at shooting/killings but focused heavily on the broader use of force at all.

https://davis-center.williams.edu/files ... s-Race.pdf

This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force,
blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force
in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian
behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force –
officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual
factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a
model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for
discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.

And again, if we want to pretend race doesn't play a part in it we are still left with study after study after study after study on the extreme use of force by police regardless of race, and how "a few bad apples" turns into looking at the "bad apples' on a spectrum of being really shit - Chauvin - to still being bad but not killing people bad. You know, the abusive power-hungry kind that will try to lie to an uber driver about what he can and can't record as a way to intimidate him - or will pull over the state attorney because "windows looked dark even though I don't have a tint meter".


It's why trying to paint me as a "BLM/ANTIFA TERRORIST WHO JUST HATES COPS AND HAS WHITE GUILT" isn't going to work. I'm not beholding to any political ideology when it comes to the police. Yes, I am a more liberal person and in general, will side with the "Uh, it's more than a couple of bad apples" side far more than "IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SHOT DON'T EVEN DRIVE IN FRONT OF A COP" crowd that exists. I'm not "ACAB". In reference to the police chases I've mentioned before, I have never once wanted the chase suspects to get away and am rarely in the "You didn't need to be so rough" when taking them into custody. I am, however, someone that notices the difference in how the various PDs I watch in chases (90% are in the LA metro, but a fair number through Texas, Arizona, Oklahoma, and Florida) will treat suspects of various crimes and races.

Race does play a part and we need to fix that. African Americans and other POC should not live in fear of law enforcement. But African Americans are not being slaughtered by the police on a daily basis the way that some leftist instigators want people to believe.

Over the course of life, an African American male has a 0.1% (100 out of 100,000 from your stats) chance of being killed by law enforcement. They have a 5.1% chance of being killed in a homicide. That means that 5.0% are non-law enforcement related. They are 50 times more likely to be killed by someone who isn't in law enforcement.

I'm not arguing against police reform. I'm questioning priorities and leaders who pretend to be altruistic but who are really looking for headlines, power and money.

[AZGrizFan]

The ironic thing is I get told I only hate cops because my ex fucked one while we were married

Yet, I've laid out plenty of reasonable statements and evidence (anecdotal and verifiable) in a way that is not argumentative at all. In a tone that isn't "ACAB" or "I hate all cops and want them to die". I laid out very clearly that even if a cop is "I hate blacks/KKK" racist they have built in bias that is only heightened by the systematic bullshit put in place by police unions, police chiefs, politicians, etc. and rather than doing anything to prevent it from getting worse they get caught up in us vs them narrative and take their actions a step further than needed to prove how tough they are.

There are plenty of good officers.

There is also a SIGNIFICANT number of officers - especially patrol - that are power-hungry, peaked in high school, bullies who just want to make sure everyone knows how big their dick is and how much power they have over someone.

Again, pull the race issue out of it if you want. The growing amount of evidence it is more than "just a couple bad apples" is growing daily at a pretty high rate now that people have cameras at their access 24/7 and can record police abusing power. They also abuse whites, asains, latino, etc. It just so happens certain groups get it worse than others.


Hell, just look at immigration-related issues. If someone tells you "illegal immigrants took my job" you instantly picture someone of Latin/African descent. Never are illegals from Australia, Denmark, Germany, France, etc. in the first 10 countries/nationalities someone goes to when they hear about "Illegal immigration and the crime they cause".

Trump's immigration ban on specific countries was due entirely due to Muslim fear and not to cut down on anything other than having brown Muslims in this country. He couldn't ban Muslims like he tried so he tied it to some bullshit narrative to pass it on certain countries. Turns out while it cut down on refugees by about 2/3 it has no impact on crime.

Trump's stated reason for issuing the executive order was to prevent terrorism. An internal report compiled by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security Intelligence and Analysis Unit, however, concluded that people from the seven nations affected by the travel ban pose no increased terror risk. The report found that "country of citizenship is unlikely to be a reliable indicator of potential terrorist activity" and that few individuals from the seven affected countries access the U.S. in any case, since the State Department grants a small number of visas to citizens of those countries." The report found that of 82 people determined to have inspired by a foreign terrorist organization "to carry out or try to carry out an attack in the United States, just over half were U.S. citizens born in the United States," while the rest came from a group of 26 countries, only two of which were among the seven nations included in the ban.


Again, it goes back to policies that create the system, which is why I don't go straight to ACAB. The policies in place that create the response of a patrol officer to respond in the way they do are long-standing and rooted in ideas that weren't born out of racial equality. It's up to each individual officer to decide if they are a "bastard" or not. We are seeing a hell of a lot more than "a couple" are indeed bastards that get protected by any number of groups (on both sides of the political spectrum).

“Now” that their actions are being recorded? How long have cops been wearing uniform cameras? Dash cams?

A LONG fucking time....

[clenz]

The ironic thing is I get told I only hate cops because my ex fucked one while we were married

Yet, I've laid out plenty of reasonable statements and evidence (anecdotal and verifiable) in a way that is not argumentative at all. In a tone that isn't "ACAB" or "I hate all cops and want them to die". I laid out very clearly that even if a cop is "I hate blacks/KKK" racist they have built in bias that is only heightened by the systematic bullshit put in place by police unions, police chiefs, politicians, etc. and rather than doing anything to prevent it from getting worse they get caught up in us vs them narrative and take their actions a step further than needed to prove how tough they are.

There are plenty of good officers.

There is also a SIGNIFICANT number of officers - especially patrol - that are power-hungry, peaked in high school, bullies who just want to make sure everyone knows how big their dick is and how much power they have over someone.

Again, pull the race issue out of it if you want. The growing amount of evidence it is more than "just a couple bad apples" is growing daily at a pretty high rate now that people have cameras at their access 24/7 and can record police abusing power. They also abuse whites, asains, latino, etc. It just so happens certain groups get it worse than others.


Hell, just look at immigration-related issues. If someone tells you "illegal immigrants took my job" you instantly picture someone of Latin/African descent. Never are illegals from Australia, Denmark, Germany, France, etc. in the first 10 countries/nationalities someone goes to when they hear about "Illegal immigration and the crime they cause".

Trump's immigration ban on specific countries was due entirely due to Muslim fear and not to cut down on anything other than having brown Muslims in this country. He couldn't ban Muslims like he tried so he tied it to some bullshit narrative to pass it on certain countries. Turns out while it cut down on refugees by about 2/3 it has no impact on crime.

Trump's stated reason for issuing the executive order was to prevent terrorism. An internal report compiled by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security Intelligence and Analysis Unit, however, concluded that people from the seven nations affected by the travel ban pose no increased terror risk. The report found that "country of citizenship is unlikely to be a reliable indicator of potential terrorist activity" and that few individuals from the seven affected countries access the U.S. in any case, since the State Department grants a small number of visas to citizens of those countries." The report found that of 82 people determined to have inspired by a foreign terrorist organization "to carry out or try to carry out an attack in the United States, just over half were U.S. citizens born in the United States," while the rest came from a group of 26 countries, only two of which were among the seven nations included in the ban.


Again, it goes back to policies that create the system, which is why I don't go straight to ACAB. The policies in place that create the response of a patrol officer to respond in the way they do are long-standing and rooted in ideas that weren't born out of racial equality. It's up to each individual officer to decide if they are a "bastard" or not. We are seeing a hell of a lot more than "a couple" are indeed bastards that get protected by any number of groups (on both sides of the political spectrum).

“Now” that their actions are being recorded? How long have cops been wearing uniform cameras? Dash cams?

A LONG fucking time....

There are many precincts still not wearing body cams.

Even in this trial MPD Chief and those that created the program stated MPD did not start body cams until 2016 into 2017


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[clenz]

So the officer that killed the 20 year old in Brooklyn Center yesterday drew her gun, keeps it in her hand for minutes, doesn’t realize it’s a gun and not a taser distantly, and shoots him literally point blank in the abdomen

The BCPD Chief has said this officer will not be terminated because he viewed it as an accidental discharge of a firearm

It want wasn’t accidental. It was a shot cop that apparently can’t tell the difference better a taser and a ticking .45




Also, that 20 year old would 10000% have been justified in being tasered. I would have zero issues with it - what may have come after will never be know.

He was very clearly resisting and attempting to flee.

This cop needs to be fired and charged with murder as well.


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[Gil Dobie]

Wright was pulled over because he had Air Freshener hanging from his rearview mirror.

Now I'm hearing expired tabs.

[89Hen]

What we need is a war on wimmen.