Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:22 am
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But blm isn't Marxist though.89Hen wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:29 amTheir desire for reparations and a redistribution of wealth.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:12 am What do you think that a genuine BLM protestor is drawing attention to? Key word here is: genuine. Not someone who simply labels themselves as such.
I'm all over the place because a myriad of issues plague the inner cities. Not one thing will fix it, certainly not the Marxist ideals that blm inc, is spewing.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:12 amYou're all over the place here.SDHornet wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:38 pm
Let's go with an easy one and start with gangs and drugs. Where were the nation-wide marches claiming "black lives matter" for all the folks caught in the crossfire of the thugs involved in pushing drugs in their local communities? Then there is the plight brought on by those communities that have to deal with that shit.
We can even go a few layers deeper and talk about what policies led to people having to result/consider engaging in such crime to begin with. What policies led to inner city working class neighborhoods to have so little hope to begin with?
Then a tangential discussion can be held on the idea that most of these "activists" wouldn't likely denigrate themselves with being involved in a skilled trade that could offer some hope of a way out, but rather encourage attending college to get some liberal arts degree so they too can become an "activist".
So, do you think that "Black Lives Matter" is mutually exclusive to the following?:
1. A disproportionate rate of incarcerations for drug offenses, which you mentioned - such as marijuana & crack cocaine (I understand in part perpetuated by the 1994 Crime Bill).
2. Your second paragraph - economic disparity. Paragraphs 1 and 2 are certainly related.
3. The third paragraph doesn't make sense to me. People in these communities are choosing to go to college vs get into a skilled trade? What? Wouldn't that freedom of choice contradict your second paragraph?
What do you think that a genuine BLM protestor is drawing attention to? Key word here is: genuine. Not someone who simply labels themselves as such.
It's a great question and I think what I'm trying to do is boil down to the mission of the protests away from the rhetoric of those who think it's a) a terrorist group or b) protest under BLM without truly knowing what they're doing or saying. I'm also trying to answer "why aren't they out there protesting X and X and X" - while trying to figure out what it is people think they're protesting for
This country would never stand for that type of anarchist behavior and we would immediately come to the defense of our armed civil servants and encourage them to crack heads in order to establish law and order.
No it hasn’t because the stats show the root point BY FAR has to be black on black crime.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:37 amIt's a great question and I think what I'm trying to do is boil down to the mission of the protests away from the rhetoric of those who think it's a) a terrorist group or b) protest under BLM without truly knowing what they're doing or saying. I'm also trying to answer "why aren't they out there protesting X and X and X" - while trying to figure out what it is people think they're protesting for
I think the core mission of BLM is to call attention to racial disparity in police justice and economic disparity. I'm not asking who these people "are," though I think that's a valid topic too.
Everythings' gotten so clouded. Sort of like Colin Kaepernick's truly peaceful protest. Kneeling to call attention and drive conversation to police brutality. That became a debate over the anthem. Which became a debate over the flag. Which became a debate over the troops. Which became exploited by every brand and television network and became a debate about politics in sport.
Asking "why aren't they out there protesting black on black crime, drugs, economic disparity" truly shows that we've allowed the sensation to drive away from the root point.
700k full time sworn police in the US, over 800k if include part time.According to the Washington Post database, 1028 people (all races) were shot and killed by police in 2019. 41 unarmed.
White: 19
Black: 9
Hispanic: 6
Other: 4
Unknown: 3
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... -database/
The Portland Police Bureau tried and failed to get assistance from other law enforcement agencies in controlling the crowds at Saturday's planned Proud Boy rally and leftist counterprotest.
In a Sept. 22 email to Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell, the Multnomah County sheriff and the Oregon State Police superintendent cited the decision by Mayor Ted Wheeler to ban all use of tear gas for crowd control as the reason they won't help at the protests.
UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:47 pm Oregon State Police and Multnomah County Sheriff Won’t Help Portland Police With Crowd Control at Saturday’s Proud Boy Rally
The Portland Police Bureau tried and failed to get assistance from other law enforcement agencies in controlling the crowds at Saturday's planned Proud Boy rally and leftist counterprotest.
In a Sept. 22 email to Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell, the Multnomah County sheriff and the Oregon State Police superintendent cited the decision by Mayor Ted Wheeler to ban all use of tear gas for crowd control as the reason they won't help at the protests.
The problem is he’s “calling attention” to .4% of the problem while blatantly ignoring the 99% problem. As does BLM. If black lives TRULY mattered, they’d focus on the ACTUAL problem and not the politically expedient one.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:37 amIt's a great question and I think what I'm trying to do is boil down to the mission of the protests away from the rhetoric of those who think it's a) a terrorist group or b) protest under BLM without truly knowing what they're doing or saying. I'm also trying to answer "why aren't they out there protesting X and X and X" - while trying to figure out what it is people think they're protesting for
I think the core mission of BLM is to call attention to racial disparity in police justice and economic disparity. I'm not asking who these people "are," though I think that's a valid topic too.
Everythings' gotten so clouded. Sort of like Colin Kaepernick's truly peaceful protest. Kneeling to call attention and drive conversation to police brutality. That became a debate over the anthem. Which became a debate over the flag. Which became a debate over the troops. Which became exploited by every brand and television network and became a debate about politics in sport.
Asking "why aren't they out there protesting black on black crime, drugs, economic disparity" truly shows that we've allowed the sensation to drive away from the root point.
Looks like Governor is stepping in.UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:47 pm Oregon State Police and Multnomah County Sheriff Won’t Help Portland Police With Crowd Control at Saturday’s Proud Boy Rally
The Portland Police Bureau tried and failed to get assistance from other law enforcement agencies in controlling the crowds at Saturday's planned Proud Boy rally and leftist counterprotest.
In a Sept. 22 email to Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell, the Multnomah County sheriff and the Oregon State Police superintendent cited the decision by Mayor Ted Wheeler to ban all use of tear gas for crowd control as the reason they won't help at the protests.
This begs a couple of questions ...kalm wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:44 pmLooks like Governor is stepping in.UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:47 pm Oregon State Police and Multnomah County Sheriff Won’t Help Portland Police With Crowd Control at Saturday’s Proud Boy Rally
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.opb.or ... utType=amp
What a gigantic hypocritical bitch.kalm wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:44 pmLooks like Governor is stepping in.UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:47 pm Oregon State Police and Multnomah County Sheriff Won’t Help Portland Police With Crowd Control at Saturday’s Proud Boy Rally
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.opb.or ... utType=amp
I always felt that if Kaepernick had gotten out in front of the narrative and said he wanted to protest, but still show respect by kneeling for the national anthem, people would have bought it. Of course keeping his rhetoric down, would have helped as well.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:37 amIt's a great question and I think what I'm trying to do is boil down to the mission of the protests away from the rhetoric of those who think it's a) a terrorist group or b) protest under BLM without truly knowing what they're doing or saying. I'm also trying to answer "why aren't they out there protesting X and X and X" - while trying to figure out what it is people think they're protesting for
I think the core mission of BLM is to call attention to racial disparity in police justice and economic disparity. I'm not asking who these people "are," though I think that's a valid topic too.
Everythings' gotten so clouded. Sort of like Colin Kaepernick's truly peaceful protest. Kneeling to call attention and drive conversation to police brutality. That became a debate over the anthem. Which became a debate over the flag. Which became a debate over the troops. Which became exploited by every brand and television network and became a debate about politics in sport.
Asking "why aren't they out there protesting black on black crime, drugs, economic disparity" truly shows that we've allowed the sensation to drive away from the root point.
I don't think Kaepernick made the necessary effort to ground this, that's true. And I also think it's easy in hindsight for us to say.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:25 pmI always felt that if Kaepernick had gotten out in front of the narrative and said he wanted to protest, but still show respect by kneeling for the national anthem, people would have bought it. Of course keeping his rhetoric down, would have helped as well.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:37 am
It's a great question and I think what I'm trying to do is boil down to the mission of the protests away from the rhetoric of those who think it's a) a terrorist group or b) protest under BLM without truly knowing what they're doing or saying. I'm also trying to answer "why aren't they out there protesting X and X and X" - while trying to figure out what it is people think they're protesting for
I think the core mission of BLM is to call attention to racial disparity in police justice and economic disparity. I'm not asking who these people "are," though I think that's a valid topic too.
Everythings' gotten so clouded. Sort of like Colin Kaepernick's truly peaceful protest. Kneeling to call attention and drive conversation to police brutality. That became a debate over the anthem. Which became a debate over the flag. Which became a debate over the troops. Which became exploited by every brand and television network and became a debate about politics in sport.
Asking "why aren't they out there protesting black on black crime, drugs, economic disparity" truly shows that we've allowed the sensation to drive away from the root point.
This is a very good discussion.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:00 pmI don't think Kaepernick made the necessary effort to ground this, that's true. And I also think it's easy in hindsight for us to say.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:25 pm
I always felt that if Kaepernick had gotten out in front of the narrative and said he wanted to protest, but still show respect by kneeling for the national anthem, people would have bought it. Of course keeping his rhetoric down, would have helped as well.
Particularly because the national anthem, outside of the Super Bowl and in major moments post-9/11 had never been seen as a 'you're with us if you stand, against us if not, kinda thing.'
I don't remember national anthems of regular season games being any sort of deal.
When I went to Griz games as a kid it was 1) national anthem, 2) Monte, 3) team storms out
1. I'm pretty sure Kaepernick sat on the bench during the anthem initially before taking a knee.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:00 pmI don't think Kaepernick made the necessary effort to ground this, that's true. And I also think it's easy in hindsight for us to say.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:25 pm
I always felt that if Kaepernick had gotten out in front of the narrative and said he wanted to protest, but still show respect by kneeling for the national anthem, people would have bought it. Of course keeping his rhetoric down, would have helped as well.
Particularly because the national anthem, outside of the Super Bowl and in major moments post-9/11 had never been seen as a 'you're with us if you stand, against us if not, kinda thing.'
I don't remember national anthems of regular season games being any sort of deal.
When I went to Griz games as a kid it was 1) national anthem, 2) Monte, 3) team storms out
I also think if Kap had done it while he was a starter, it might have meant something. But he didn’t start doing it until he’d been benched....smelled of sour grapes. Agreed on the “getting out in front” though...just an explanation, before it blew up, might have tamped it down.kalm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:08 amThis is a very good discussion.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:00 pm
I don't think Kaepernick made the necessary effort to ground this, that's true. And I also think it's easy in hindsight for us to say.
Particularly because the national anthem, outside of the Super Bowl and in major moments post-9/11 had never been seen as a 'you're with us if you stand, against us if not, kinda thing.'
I don't remember national anthems of regular season games being any sort of deal.
When I went to Griz games as a kid it was 1) national anthem, 2) Monte, 3) team storms out
“Portland officers have been serving on the front lines of nightly protests for months, sustaining injuries and encountering unspeakable violence,” Hampton told The Oregonian/OregonLive. “If I am to send them into harm’s way this weekend, on my authority, I’m going to ensure they have all the protections and authority of OSP troopers.”
I agree. But that responsibility isn't exclusive to BLM - it should be asked of all of us.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:35 pmThe problem is he’s “calling attention” to .4% of the problem while blatantly ignoring the 99% problem. As does BLM. If black lives TRULY mattered, they’d focus on the ACTUAL problem and not the politically expedient one.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:37 am
It's a great question and I think what I'm trying to do is boil down to the mission of the protests away from the rhetoric of those who think it's a) a terrorist group or b) protest under BLM without truly knowing what they're doing or saying. I'm also trying to answer "why aren't they out there protesting X and X and X" - while trying to figure out what it is people think they're protesting for
I think the core mission of BLM is to call attention to racial disparity in police justice and economic disparity. I'm not asking who these people "are," though I think that's a valid topic too.
Everythings' gotten so clouded. Sort of like Colin Kaepernick's truly peaceful protest. Kneeling to call attention and drive conversation to police brutality. That became a debate over the anthem. Which became a debate over the flag. Which became a debate over the troops. Which became exploited by every brand and television network and became a debate about politics in sport.
Asking "why aren't they out there protesting black on black crime, drugs, economic disparity" truly shows that we've allowed the sensation to drive away from the root point.
UNI88 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:26 am Some Portland police officers to be deputized as federal officers for Saturday’s Proud Boy rally, counter-protests
“Portland officers have been serving on the front lines of nightly protests for months, sustaining injuries and encountering unspeakable violence,” Hampton told The Oregonian/OregonLive. “If I am to send them into harm’s way this weekend, on my authority, I’m going to ensure they have all the protections and authority of OSP troopers.”
He did sit prior to kneeling.CAA Flagship wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:39 am1. I'm pretty sure Kaepernick sat on the bench during the anthem initially before taking a knee.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:00 pm
I don't think Kaepernick made the necessary effort to ground this, that's true. And I also think it's easy in hindsight for us to say.
Particularly because the national anthem, outside of the Super Bowl and in major moments post-9/11 had never been seen as a 'you're with us if you stand, against us if not, kinda thing.'
I don't remember national anthems of regular season games being any sort of deal.
When I went to Griz games as a kid it was 1) national anthem, 2) Monte, 3) team storms out
2. As I said from the beginning, what he did doesn't move me to anger nearly as much as bewilderment. From day 1, I looked at this from a messaging angle and, to me, it's poor marketing. If I'm a candy manufacturer, I would not make commercials that make fun of fat people. It seems that the people that Kaepernick wanted to "get the message to" are the people most upset about the disrespect to the anthem/flag.......and missing the point of the message. How many good commercials have you seen where you can recall the commercial but can't remember the product being advertised? And those didn't piss off people at the same time.
3. No football team, at any level, should be on the field for the National Anthem. Too emotional a sport for a lull like that before kickoff. Final pep talk in locker room >>>> Field entrance >>>> Kickoff.
Did Gov Brown hijack the authority by deputizing the Rapid Response Team? Or was it Oregon State Police Supt. Travis Hampton bypassing both Wheeler and Brown? My money's on Hampton.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:53 amWell, this is an interesting move in response to your earlier question about how Gov Brown and Ted Wheeler will handle this.UNI88 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:26 am Some Portland police officers to be deputized as federal officers for Saturday’s Proud Boy rally, counter-protests
Gov Brown hijacked authority here by deputizing PPB to get around the stifling restrictions Ted Wheeler's put on them, without putting the backlash from the left back on Wheeler.
What a mess.
Kap tried to frame the debate but a bunch of right-wing Nancys got all bent out of shape and made a big deal out of it.DuckDuckGriz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:56 amHe did sit prior to kneeling.CAA Flagship wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:39 am
1. I'm pretty sure Kaepernick sat on the bench during the anthem initially before taking a knee.
2. As I said from the beginning, what he did doesn't move me to anger nearly as much as bewilderment. From day 1, I looked at this from a messaging angle and, to me, it's poor marketing. If I'm a candy manufacturer, I would not make commercials that make fun of fat people. It seems that the people that Kaepernick wanted to "get the message to" are the people most upset about the disrespect to the anthem/flag.......and missing the point of the message. How many good commercials have you seen where you can recall the commercial but can't remember the product being advertised? And those didn't piss off people at the same time.
3. No football team, at any level, should be on the field for the National Anthem. Too emotional a sport for a lull like that before kickoff. Final pep talk in locker room >>>> Field entrance >>>> Kickoff.
Ironically, it was former Green Beret Nate Boyer who talked him into kneeling:
"We sorta came to a middle ground where he would take a knee alongside his teammates," Boyer tells HBO. "Soldiers take a knee in front of a fallen brother's grave, you know, to show respect. When we're on a patrol, you know, and we go into a security halt, we take a knee, and we pull security."
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... jxaylrcsse