2020 General Election

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:44 pm
Fake news CNN at it again.
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https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-biden ... emoved-hat
Yeah, removing a logo is so awful. It's not like they doctored the photo to make him look older or anything. I'm glad the Republicans are here to make sure we're all held to higher standards.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... mous-zone/
On Saturday, Fox apologized in an editor’s note posted to stories about CHAZ on its website, saying its home-page photos “did not clearly delineate” the splicing together of multiple images from different locations. The editor’s note also acknowledged the erroneous use of the Minnesota rioting photo to illustrate Seattle news. “Fox News regrets these errors,” the note stated.
Spoiler: show
Just for fun...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -basement/
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https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5 ... -in-new-ad
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

I’d post how Woodward’s new book is damning for Trump hiding the truth about Covid and more remarks about generals but something tells me it won’t matter. :|
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:19 am
I’d post how Woodward’s new book is damning for Trump hiding the truth about Covid and more remarks about generals but something tells me it won’t matter. :|
Each side is able to take from it what they want - those that hate Trump will say "he lied" or "he covered it up" and those that are Trump backers will stick with his "being a cheerleader" for the nation and "not wanting to cause panic". Like everything Trump, stuff he does and says always results in extreme reactions. You're right, at this point the zealots on either side aren't going to be swayed by really any information.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Winterborn »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:34 am
kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:19 am
I’d post how Woodward’s new book is damning for Trump hiding the truth about Covid and more remarks about generals but something tells me it won’t matter. :|
Each side is able to take from it what they want - those that hate Trump will say "he lied" or "he covered it up" and those that are Trump backers will stick with his "being a cheerleader" for the nation and "not wanting to cause panic". Like everything Trump, stuff he does and says always results in extreme reactions. You're right, at this point the zealots on either side aren't going to be swayed by really any information.
There is a reason they are zealots. :nod:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:37 am
GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:34 am

Each side is able to take from it what they want - those that hate Trump will say "he lied" or "he covered it up" and those that are Trump backers will stick with his "being a cheerleader" for the nation and "not wanting to cause panic". Like everything Trump, stuff he does and says always results in extreme reactions. You're right, at this point the zealots on either side aren't going to be swayed by really any information.
There is a reason they are zealots. :nod:
Is the number of zealots on both sides increasing or are they just getting louder and more fanatical?

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:34 am
kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:19 am
I’d post how Woodward’s new book is damning for Trump hiding the truth about Covid and more remarks about generals but something tells me it won’t matter. :|
Each side is able to take from it what they want - those that hate Trump will say "he lied" or "he covered it up" and those that are Trump backers will stick with his "being a cheerleader" for the nation and "not wanting to cause panic". Like everything Trump, stuff he does and says always results in extreme reactions. You're right, at this point the zealots on either side aren't going to be swayed by really any information.
What will the reasonable Trump supporters say?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

Winterborn wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:37 am
GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:34 am


Each side is able to take from it what they want - those that hate Trump will say "he lied" or "he covered it up" and those that are Trump backers will stick with his "being a cheerleader" for the nation and "not wanting to cause panic". Like everything Trump, stuff he does and says always results in extreme reactions. You're right, at this point the zealots on either side aren't going to be swayed by really any information.
There is a reason they are zealots. :nod:
Indeed. The WSJ has done a really good job since the start of August with some investigative articles about what went wrong at the start of the pandemic and where mistakes were made that made things worse. Trump gets his blame, as he should, but there's very few who did things right either. From China's CDC unable to realize what was happening, to our own CDC and health experts not able to determine what was initially wrong with our tests, to the WHO being a bureaucratic sloth, to Trump and other leaders painting an incredibly rosy picture right before things got bad, to this virus just being that much more contagious and deadly than any that came before it, it was a bad situation that was handled badly in many cases.

Our own political divisions certainly made it worse here as well, as we show zero signs of rallying together to overcome this. It's like if we spent the bulk of 1942 with either his opponents railing against FDR and whether he was asleep at the wheel when Pearl Harbor happened or his supporters saying only he could save us. We never would've had Guadalcanal and Midway, the latter being just 6 months after Pearl, to turn the tide and would've given Japan a whole year to do what they will in the Pacific. Thankfully, we didn't, but we are showing that level of political paralysis today that hampers us moving forward.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:48 am
GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:34 am

Each side is able to take from it what they want - those that hate Trump will say "he lied" or "he covered it up" and those that are Trump backers will stick with his "being a cheerleader" for the nation and "not wanting to cause panic". Like everything Trump, stuff he does and says always results in extreme reactions. You're right, at this point the zealots on either side aren't going to be swayed by really any information.
What will the reasonable Trump supporters say?
Probably that he's a flawed candidate but better than the alternative. Similar to what the reasonable Biden supporters would say about his reduced mental capacity, history of inappropriately touching women, opposing busing, etc.

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:48 am
GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:34 am


Each side is able to take from it what they want - those that hate Trump will say "he lied" or "he covered it up" and those that are Trump backers will stick with his "being a cheerleader" for the nation and "not wanting to cause panic". Like everything Trump, stuff he does and says always results in extreme reactions. You're right, at this point the zealots on either side aren't going to be swayed by really any information.
What will the reasonable Trump supporters say?
I imagine they'll say he didn't want to create a panic. Heck, they'll probably point to Fauci saying we didn't need masks, even though he thought we did, because he didn't want medical professionals to encounter shortages. Purposeful deception for the greater good. It'd hardly be the first time a person in power has done that. I wouldn't ascribe that level of thinking to Trump personally, but his own zealots certainly will.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:47 am
Winterborn wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:37 am


There is a reason they are zealots. :nod:
Is the number of zealots on both sides increasing or are they just getting louder and more fanatical?
My vote is they are getting louder, with more ability to "spread their message" due to social media. Cut off their air time and it would die down. Unfortunately nothing sells advertising/clicks like a few nuts that are on the opposite side of your viewership.

They can't really get much more fanatical without going the whole martyr route and blowing themselves up.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:06 am
UNI88 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:47 am

Is the number of zealots on both sides increasing or are they just getting louder and more fanatical?
My vote is they are getting louder, with more ability to "spread their message" due to social media. Cut off their air time and it would die down. Unfortunately nothing sells advertising/clicks like a few nuts that are on the opposite side of your viewership.

They can't really get much more fanatical without going the whole martyr route and blowing themselves up.
That could be an upside of making assisted suicide legal as long as they didn't take anyone else with them.

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Winterborn »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:52 am
Winterborn wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:37 am


There is a reason they are zealots. :nod:
Indeed. The WSJ has done a really good job since the start of August with some investigative articles about what went wrong at the start of the pandemic and where mistakes were made that made things worse. Trump gets his blame, as he should, but there's very few who did things right either. From China's CDC unable to realize what was happening, to our own CDC and health experts not able to determine what was initially wrong with our tests, to the WHO being a bureaucratic sloth, to Trump and other leaders painting an incredibly rosy picture right before things got bad, to this virus just being that much more contagious and deadly than any that came before it, it was a bad situation that was handled badly in many cases.

Our own political divisions certainly made it worse here as well, as we show zero signs of rallying together to overcome this. It's like if we spent the bulk of 1942 with either his opponents railing against FDR and whether he was asleep at the wheel when Pearl Harbor happened or his supporters saying only he could save us. We never would've had Guadalcanal and Midway, the latter being just 6 months after Pearl, to turn the tide and would've given Japan a whole year to do what they will in the Pacific. Thankfully, we didn't, but we are showing that level of political paralysis today that hampers us moving forward.
Your first paragraph is spot on (outside of the deadly part, IMHO ;) ). :thumb:

I would probably make the argument that the difference back then to now, is people (mainly politicians) could for certain big things (defeat the Axis) put aside their disagreements. Now they just seem to fan the flames due to the fact that they see it as a path to maintain their power and stay in office.
Last edited by Winterborn on Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:08 am
Winterborn wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:06 am


My vote is they are getting louder, with more ability to "spread their message" due to social media. Cut off their air time and it would die down. Unfortunately nothing sells advertising/clicks like a few nuts that are on the opposite side of your viewership.

They can't really get much more fanatical without going the whole martyr route and blowing themselves up.
That could be an upside of making assisted suicide legal as long as they didn't take anyone else with them.
Or property damage. :D
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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:34 am
kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:19 am
I’d post how Woodward’s new book is damning for Trump hiding the truth about Covid and more remarks about generals but something tells me it won’t matter. :|
Each side is able to take from it what they want - those that hate Trump will say "he lied" or "he covered it up" and those that are Trump backers will stick with his "being a cheerleader" for the nation and "not wanting to cause panic". Like everything Trump, stuff he does and says always results in extreme reactions. You're right, at this point the zealots on either side aren't going to be swayed by really any information.
Exactly. This book, which amazingly is Trump's own words, prove what we already know about Trump and his failure to lead.

I actually understand Trump's desire to not cause a panic. That makes perfect sense. I think his failure was reconciling the need to be honest with the public about a public health crisis and keeping everyone calm. It's not easy but it's something he failed at.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:55 am
kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:48 am


What will the reasonable Trump supporters say?
Purposeful deception for the greater good.
I brought up that point a month or so ago. 89hen said that was lying and that Fauci had lost all credibility with him. I wonder if that logic is consistent with a majority of voters, regardless the politician/circumstance. Something tells me it isn't.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:53 am
GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:34 am


Each side is able to take from it what they want - those that hate Trump will say "he lied" or "he covered it up" and those that are Trump backers will stick with his "being a cheerleader" for the nation and "not wanting to cause panic". Like everything Trump, stuff he does and says always results in extreme reactions. You're right, at this point the zealots on either side aren't going to be swayed by really any information.
Exactly. This book, which amazingly is Trump's own words, prove what we already know about Trump and his failure to lead.

I actually understand Trump's desire to not cause a panic. That makes perfect sense. I think his failure was reconciling the need to be honest with the public about a public health crisis and keeping everyone calm. It's not easy but it's something he failed at.
:nod:

It’s been a long year and we all have a bit of amnesia regarding who said what back then.

I’m sure reminders and timelines are already coming out.

On one hand it wasn’t a terrible political move to put it all on the states. Let them take the blame for the outcomes. But then he’s in public smugly reassuring/not reassuring that we’ve got this right about the same time.

National leadership in many forms would have saved a number of lives and bring the economy back sooner.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:08 pm


National leadership in many forms would have saved a number of lives and bring the economy back sooner.
Sadly, I disagree. For one, Trump is incapable himself of national leadership - it's just not what he does, he's a disruptor and that's all that he knows to do. He's chaotic and as such, sometimes he'll even hit on some good ideas almost by chance (e.g. China as an enemy of the US). However, he's also incapable of national leadership because the political opposition will never allow him to be a leader. When you're steadfastly and maniacally committed to the full resistance to an administration before that administration even comes into being, you're not going to accede anything to that administration. We decided 4 years ago to be at diametrically opposed loggerheads and we were good to our word on that. Virus or no virus. :coffee:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Baldy »

Lots of people can knock Trump for downplaying the virus, but the people at the WaahhPoo, NY Times, CNN, klams friends at VOX, Nancy Pelosi, De Blasio, Cuomo, etc. etc. etc., sure can't because they did the exact same thing. :nod:

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:43 pm
kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:08 pm


National leadership in many forms would have saved a number of lives and bring the economy back sooner.
Sadly, I disagree. For one, Trump is incapable himself of national leadership - it's just not what he does, he's a disruptor and that's all that he knows to do. He's chaotic and as such, sometimes he'll even hit on some good ideas almost by chance (e.g. China as an enemy of the US). However, he's also incapable of national leadership because the political opposition will never allow him to be a leader. When you're steadfastly and maniacally committed to the full resistance to an administration before that administration even comes into being, you're not going to accede anything to that administration. We decided 4 years ago to be at diametrically opposed loggerheads and we were good to our word on that. Virus or no virus. :coffee:

No attempts were even made. And nationalization pandemic related equipment and distribution/management of resources was between zero and a shit show. States were guarding planes full of masks with State Patrol to protect against the Feds coming in and taking them. At various times he publicly criticized blue governors on points he either knew were wrong or wasn’t paying enough attention to.

I get what you’re saying and it’s true to an extent. But leadership is supposed to adapt and support. People vilified FDR too. Does a true national leader, our favorite president, not even try during a crisis?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Winterborn »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:43 pm
kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:08 pm


National leadership in many forms would have saved a number of lives and bring the economy back sooner.
Sadly, I disagree. For one, Trump is incapable himself of national leadership - it's just not what he does, he's a disruptor and that's all that he knows to do. He's chaotic and as such, sometimes he'll even hit on some good ideas almost by chance (e.g. China as an enemy of the US). However, he's also incapable of national leadership because the political opposition will never allow him to be a leader. When you're steadfastly and maniacally committed to the full resistance to an administration before that administration even comes into being, you're not going to accede anything to that administration. We decided 4 years ago to be at diametrically opposed loggerheads and we were good to our word on that. Virus or no virus. :coffee:

It is why people voted for him in the first place. :nod:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:23 pm
GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:43 pm


Sadly, I disagree. For one, Trump is incapable himself of national leadership - it's just not what he does, he's a disruptor and that's all that he knows to do. He's chaotic and as such, sometimes he'll even hit on some good ideas almost by chance (e.g. China as an enemy of the US). However, he's also incapable of national leadership because the political opposition will never allow him to be a leader. When you're steadfastly and maniacally committed to the full resistance to an administration before that administration even comes into being, you're not going to accede anything to that administration. We decided 4 years ago to be at diametrically opposed loggerheads and we were good to our word on that. Virus or no virus. :coffee:

No attempts were even made. And nationalization pandemic related equipment and distribution/management of resources was between zero and a shit show. States were guarding planes full of masks with State Patrol to protect against the Feds coming in and taking them. At various times he publicly criticized blue governors on points he either knew were wrong or wasn’t paying enough attention to.

I get what you’re saying and it’s true to an extent. But leadership is supposed to adapt and support. People vilified FDR too. Does a true national leader, our favorite president, not even try during a crisis?
Being selfless does not come naturally to people, much less to a politician. A true leader cares more about doing the right thing, rather than be seeing doing something.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

Baldy wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:34 pm
∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:21 pm


This is pretty normal. Have you ever worked a poll? Poll watchers from both parties (and sometimes other parties) are at every precinct. I've never experienced it, but the lawyers show up if there's a dispute between the poll watcher and the election chief (who are simple volunteers).

Trump is the only one constantly questioning and undermining the validity of the upcoming elections, even though the actual voting process is pretty damn secure and has a ton of checks. Legalized voter suppression is what we should be angry about.
Trump is the only one? Do I need to introduce you so someone named Stacy Abrams?
Abrams? Hell Hillary still can't accept the "L" she took 4 years ago, and is even spreading rhetoric Trips is claiming only Trump is spewing. :lol:

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:52 am
Winterborn wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:37 am


There is a reason they are zealots. :nod:
Indeed. The WSJ has done a really good job since the start of August with some investigative articles about what went wrong at the start of the pandemic and where mistakes were made that made things worse. Trump gets his blame, as he should, but there's very few who did things right either. From China's CDC unable to realize what was happening, to our own CDC and health experts not able to determine what was initially wrong with our tests, to the WHO being a bureaucratic sloth, to Trump and other leaders painting an incredibly rosy picture right before things got bad, to this virus just being that much more contagious and deadly than any that came before it, it was a bad situation that was handled badly in many cases.

Our own political divisions certainly made it worse here as well, as we show zero signs of rallying together to overcome this. It's like if we spent the bulk of 1942 with either his opponents railing against FDR and whether he was asleep at the wheel when Pearl Harbor happened or his supporters saying only he could save us. We never would've had Guadalcanal and Midway, the latter being just 6 months after Pearl, to turn the tide and would've given Japan a whole year to do what they will in the Pacific. Thankfully, we didn't, but we are showing that level of political paralysis today that hampers us moving forward.
Well said. :nod:

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

Rogan hitting the nail on the head...


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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

SDHornet wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:40 pm
Rogan hitting the nail on the head...

As I've said about stuff like that before: Biden is fine. He comes across as more "there" than Trump does. These people can keep trying this and I guess there is some chance it will work. But every time Biden goes public with discussion, answering questions, etc., it gets shot down. Any rational person can see that he's fine and is, in fact, a lot more lucid than Trump is.
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