2020 General Election

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by ∞∞∞ »

UNI88 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:49 am
This. Republicans try to suppress voting by groups that will vote against them while Democrats try to allow illegal voting by groups (non-citizens, dead people, etc.) that will vote for them. They both engage in gerrymandering if allowed and I would guess that they both harvest votes when it's advantageous.
What a ridiculous argument. One issue (voter suppression) actually happens and the other (illegal voting) isn't a consequential problem. Voter suppression is enshrined in laws and encouraged, while illegal voting has severe consequences and is discouraged. Voter suppression can't be easily stopped, while illegal voting is easy to catch and stop.

Gerrymandering is overwhelmingly done by Republicans. That's simply a fact.

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Senator Mike Lee on Twitter:

Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prosperity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.

Trump actively saying he won't accept election results if they're bad for him, VP agreeing in a more politically savvy method yesterday, and Barr already saying he flat out agrees with Trump. Now this by a Senator.

Republicans aren't even hiding the fascism anymore; they're straight up saying it out loud.

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by UNI88 »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:21 am
UNI88 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:49 am
This. Republicans try to suppress voting by groups that will vote against them while Democrats try to allow illegal voting by groups (non-citizens, dead people, etc.) that will vote for them. They both engage in gerrymandering if allowed and I would guess that they both harvest votes when it's advantageous.
What a ridiculous argument. One issue (voter suppression) actually happens and the other (illegal voting) isn't a consequential problem. Voter suppression is enshrined in laws and encouraged, while illegal voting has severe consequences and is discouraged. Voter suppression can't be easily stopped, while illegal voting is easy to catch and stop.

Gerrymandering is overwhelmingly done by Republicans. That's simply a fact.
I lived in Illinois for 30+ years and I beg to differ. Speaker of the House and leader of the state Democratic Party, Mike Madigan has gerrymandered the sh!t out of that state and fought tooth and nail to prevent any attempt to take that power away. Madiganistan is a textbook example of why one party rule is a bad idea.

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:45 am
Senator Mike Lee on Twitter:

Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prosperity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.

Trump actively saying he won't accept election results if they're bad for him, VP agreeing in a more politically savvy method yesterday, and Barr already saying he flat out agrees with Trump. Now this by a Senator.

Republicans aren't even hiding the fascism anymore; they're straight up saying it out loud.
Arguing which turd smells better is futile and stupid. Can't we agree they both are liars, cheaters, sneaks and will do anything within their power to maintain power?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by BDKJMU »

Zogby poll from 5 days ago shows race on 2 points (Biden 49-47), but isn't being including in the RCP average of polls (which range from Biden up between 3 to 14.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... -president

I'm sure JSO can tell us why its not being included in the RCP average-538 blah blah, Nate Silver blah blah, Orange Man Bad blah blah..
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by UNI88 »

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:21 am


Gerrymandering is overwhelmingly done by Republicans. That's simply a fact.
Prove it. If it's that clear of a fact, then it should be easy to prove. In the past 100 years, show me how Republicans have gerrymandered, overwhelmingly mind you, more than the Democrats have done. Should take all of 5 minutes to prove if it's that clear. :coffee:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by AZGrizFan »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:21 am
UNI88 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:49 am
This. Republicans try to suppress voting by groups that will vote against them while Democrats try to allow illegal voting by groups (non-citizens, dead people, etc.) that will vote for them. They both engage in gerrymandering if allowed and I would guess that they both harvest votes when it's advantageous.
What a ridiculous argument. One issue (voter suppression) actually happens and the other (illegal voting) isn't a consequential problem. Voter suppression is enshrined in laws and encouraged, while illegal voting has severe consequences and is discouraged. Voter suppression can't be easily stopped, while illegal voting is easy to catch and stop.

Gerrymandering is overwhelmingly done by Republicans. That's simply a fact.
Why is one consequential and the other not? :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

Just the mere fact that you can so easily dismiss ONE form of voter fraud while simultaneously being horrified at a different form is classic.
Last edited by AZGrizFan on Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by AZGrizFan »

GannonFan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:18 am
∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:21 am


Gerrymandering is overwhelmingly done by Republicans. That's simply a fact.
Prove it. If it's that clear of a fact, then it should be easy to prove. In the past 100 years, show me how Republicans have gerrymandered, overwhelmingly mind you, more than the Democrats have done. Should take all of 5 minutes to prove if it's that clear. :coffee:
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:45 am
Senator Mike Lee on Twitter:

Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prosperity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.

Trump actively saying he won't accept election results if they're bad for him, VP agreeing in a more politically savvy method yesterday, and Barr already saying he flat out agrees with Trump. Now this by a Senator.

Republicans aren't even hiding the fascism anymore; they're straight up saying it out loud.
So in trip's definition, fascism is now defined as "liberty, peace, and prosperity". I think that's a little different than Webster's definition of the same. I'll give you the "rank democracy" comment is putrid on this guy's part, but the leap to claiming it is fascism is almost equal to that. I'm sure the phrase "settle down, Francis" is applicable here. :thumb:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by 89Hen »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:20 am
GannonFan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:18 am


Prove it. If it's that clear of a fact, then it should be easy to prove. In the past 100 years, show me how Republicans have gerrymandered, overwhelmingly mind you, more than the Democrats have done. Should take all of 5 minutes to prove if it's that clear. :coffee:
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
There are sites that make that case.

https://www.azavea.com/blog/2017/07/19/ ... advantage/

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by ∞∞∞ »

GannonFan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:25 am
∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:45 am
Senator Mike Lee on Twitter:

Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prosperity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.

Trump actively saying he won't accept election results if they're bad for him, VP agreeing in a more politically savvy method yesterday, and Barr already saying he flat out agrees with Trump. Now this by a Senator.

Republicans aren't even hiding the fascism anymore; they're straight up saying it out loud.
So in trip's definition, fascism is now defined as "liberty, peace, and prosperity". I think that's a little different than Webster's definition of the same. I'll give you the "rank democracy" comment is putrid on this guy's part, but the leap to claiming it is fascism is almost equal to that. I'm sure the phrase "settle down, Francis" is applicable here. :thumb:
:roll:

Now Trump wants Barr to arrest Biden. But yeah, not fascist.

Y'all have deluded yourselves it can't happen here. I'm done here; I love America too much for this sh*t.

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by 89Hen »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:49 am
Now Trump wants Barr to arrest Biden. But yeah, not fascist.

Y'all have deluded yourselves it can't happen here. I'm done here; I love America too much for this sh*t.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... t-n1242629
WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., says she plans to talk about the 25th Amendment, which outlines presidential transfer of power procedures, on Friday.

Pelosi told reporters during her weekly press conference at the Capitol on Thursday to come to the Hill “tomorrow” because she said, “We're going to be talking about the 25th Amendment.”
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Skjellyfetti »

is the 25th amendment fascist?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

89Hen wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:48 am
AZGrizFan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:20 am


:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
There are sites that make that case.

https://www.azavea.com/blog/2017/07/19/ ... advantage/

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I don't think anyone would dispute that the GOP has had the better of gerrymandering in the past 10 years - that was the big news in 2010 when the GOP rode discontent with Obama's/Pelosi's/Reid's first two years to sweeping victories at the state level - it coincided with the census and therefore they got to control the redrawing of district lines. But we've had census's every 10 years and the GOP hasn't ever had the control of states like they did in 2010, and yet gerrymandering had been happening well before then.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:49 am
GannonFan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:25 am


So in trip's definition, fascism is now defined as "liberty, peace, and prosperity". I think that's a little different than Webster's definition of the same. I'll give you the "rank democracy" comment is putrid on this guy's part, but the leap to claiming it is fascism is almost equal to that. I'm sure the phrase "settle down, Francis" is applicable here. :thumb:
:roll:

Now Trump wants Barr to arrest Biden. But yeah, not fascist.

Y'all have deluded yourselves it can't happen here. I'm done here; I love America too much for this sh*t.
Well now you're gaslighting because you're pivoting from some Senator's tweet to something the President just said. Can't you stay on topic?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:00 pm
is the 25th amendment fascist?
It will be once Trump comes out in favor of it. Just wait. :rofl:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

89Hen wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:50 am
∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:49 am
Now Trump wants Barr to arrest Biden. But yeah, not fascist.

Y'all have deluded yourselves it can't happen here. I'm done here; I love America too much for this sh*t.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... t-n1242629
WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., says she plans to talk about the 25th Amendment, which outlines presidential transfer of power procedures, on Friday.

Pelosi told reporters during her weekly press conference at the Capitol on Thursday to come to the Hill “tomorrow” because she said, “We're going to be talking about the 25th Amendment.”
Trump is becoming more unhinged.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by UNI88 »

89Hen wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:48 am
AZGrizFan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:20 am

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
There are sites that make that case.

https://www.azavea.com/blog/2017/07/19/ ... advantage/

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That site seems to be focusing on Congressional districting. Maybe gerrymandering only gives Democrats a 1 seat edge in Congress but it has a much bigger impact in the state General Assembly.

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:51 am
Biden has held a very steady (and big) lead, across months now, and the swing states are being polled way better than before because of the 2016 debacle. Cons like to point out 2016 as the comparison - which is fine - but it was also a statistical outlier when it comes to the accuracy of election polling. It can't be used as the singular data point to compare everything to. Even with that, 2016 polls still predicted the popular vote correctly (just in the wrong places).

Taking Biden's steady polling, the focus on swing states, the fact Dems are fired up (see 2018), along with the historical accuracy of polling, and I don't have too many reasons why the numbers are wrong this time around. The big question mark is the pandemic and how it will effect voters.
Yup, Biden is crushing it...


...which is why he was recently campaigning in PA and not AZ.

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:52 am
This idea that fraud doesn't exist and it never has is ludicrous. Do people not read history books anymore? It was commonplace in Texas in the 40's and the 50's for parties to "hold back" votes to see how the election was going, and then to release votes as needed to push their candidate over the top. LBJ lost an election in this way, and then got better at the process and won his next election doing the same thing. No one really disputes that JFK won the presidency based on manipulated voting in Chicago in 1960. But even with those pretty well known event, there's also never been an exhaustive journalistic review to detail how that fraud was committed. Again, if we don't spend the time and money to unearth the fraud, is that enough to say that fraud doesn't exist? How naïve are people?

NPR had a good segment on yesterday, although I think it didn't carry the message they wanted to send entirely. They were doing a segment on how secure and fraud-proof mail-in voting is, so they brought on the Lt governor from Utah. Utah's been doing statewide mail-in voting for roughly 90%-95% of the state's population for about a decade now. Being a fairly GOP-leaning state, part of the intent to was rebut Trump's whining that mail-in voting can lead to fraud.

But the guy from Utah was pretty clear that while the system in Utah works, it wasn't something slapped together in 2-3 months in the middle of a pandemic. They started with local elections, and when everyone was comfortable with that they moved to larger ones until all elections in the state were done almost exclusively by mail. Every registered voter gets sent a ballot. You can track online where your ballot is, both before you get it and after you mail it back. Every signature is verified with one on file and if there's any question the voter is called in to election offices to verify their ballot. There's regular culling of the voting rolls to remove people who have died or moved or are otherwise ineligible. It all works pretty well, but then again, they've been doing it for a decade and they worked themselves up to it.
This is how mail in voting should be done, and I'm willing to be there wouldn't be much opposition is such stringent protocols were in place to ensure fraud is minimized, if not eliminated entirely.

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:07 pm
Trump is becoming more unhinged.
This.

That’s some kind of bat shit crazy. :shock:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

89Hen wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:50 am
∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:49 am
Now Trump wants Barr to arrest Biden. But yeah, not fascist.

Y'all have deluded yourselves it can't happen here. I'm done here; I love America too much for this sh*t.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... t-n1242629
WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., says she plans to talk about the 25th Amendment, which outlines presidential transfer of power procedures, on Friday.

Pelosi told reporters during her weekly press conference at the Capitol on Thursday to come to the Hill “tomorrow” because she said, “We're going to be talking about the 25th Amendment.”
4 years later and Donks still can't accept the voting results. :lol:

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Skjellyfetti »

SDHornet wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:40 pm

Yup, Biden is crushing it...


...which is why he was recently campaigning in PA and not AZ.
They're campaigning in AZ today....

"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by DuckDuckGriz »

SDHornet wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:48 pm
4 years later and Donks still can't accept the voting results. :lol:
Jesus I really can't understand what the benefit of this can be. Self-destructive.
I really look forward to the day when the Democratic Party can step out from the shadow of Pelosi.
Stupid, stupid, stupid move. Nancy, STFU. Let the guy self-destruct.

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