2020 General Election

Political discussions
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 47768
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:46 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:32 am

Are administrators instructing doctors to select COVID as COD when possible? Probably.

Trump is a colossal asshole for a variety of reasons.

Trump accusing doctors (or anyone) of fraud is ironic.

Here is the whole quote for context. He didn't accuse doctors of fraud. He stated a fact.
“You know in Germany,” he told a crowd in Waterford Township, Michigan, “if you have a bad heart and you’re ready to die or if you have cancer and you’re going to be dying soon, and you catch COVID, that happens we mark it down to COVID. You know our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID, you know that, right. I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say is, I’m but you know sorry everybody dies of COVID. But in Germany and other places, if you have a heart attack or you have cancer, you’re terminally ill, you catch COVID, they say you died of cancer, you died of a heart attack. With us, when in doubt, choose COVID. It’s true, no it’s true. No, they’ll say, Oh it’s terrible what he said, but it’s true. It’s like $2,000 more. So you get more money. This could only happen to us.”

If you are intellectually honest, you can see Trump is bemoaning the fact that we have incentivized COVID diagnosis with our medical community. While I'm fine with this, he is simply pointing out how the uninformed keep trying to nail him on COVID deaths, because there are many factors the average person does not understand.

For example, what constitutes a COVID death? Do you know without looking it up?

Here is an article about the disparity in COVID deaths around the World.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectious ... id19/86527
Another possible explanation is that countries define and report COVID-19-related deaths differently, and those methods changed over time. In the early phases of the epidemic in mainland China, the first few versions of case definition required that up to six criteria needed to be met, which probably underestimated cases by five-fold. As of April 14, 2020, the new CDC guidelines include counting both confirmed and probable cases, which depended on doctors' judgment based on symptoms and contact history. The attribution of cause of death to COVID-19 probably varies by country, especially since most of these deaths occur in people with chronic illnesses.
Why do you think I keep asking the question of Gil and Klam what constitutes a COVID death or even a case? You need to compare apples to apples on that front, but the Libs keep trying to use it as a means to hammer Trump.
Still no evidence of if or to what extent this is happening. Just dear leader telling you so. Please let Gil and I know when you come up with some.

Yeah...but he didn’t accuse doctors, he simply stated a fact or something. From the quote you posted...

“You know our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID, you know that, right. I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say is, I’m but you know sorry everybody dies of COVID. “

You know our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID, you know that, right. I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say is, I’m but you know sorry everybody dies of COVID.

:lol:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:48 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:46 pm


Here is the whole quote for context. He didn't accuse doctors of fraud. He stated a fact.




If you are intellectually honest, you can see Trump is bemoaning the fact that we have incentivized COVID diagnosis with our medical community. While I'm fine with this, he is simply pointing out how the uninformed keep trying to nail him on COVID deaths, because there are many factors the average person does not understand.

For example, what constitutes a COVID death? Do you know without looking it up?

Here is an article about the disparity in COVID deaths around the World.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectious ... id19/86527



Why do you think I keep asking the question of Gil and Klam what constitutes a COVID death or even a case? You need to compare apples to apples on that front, but the Libs keep trying to use it as a means to hammer Trump.
Still no evidence of if or to what extent this is happening. Just dear leader telling you so. Please let Gil and I know when you come up with some.

Yeah...but he didn’t accuse doctors, he simply stated a fact or something. From the quote you posted...

“You know our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID, you know that, right. I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say is, I’m but you know sorry everybody dies of COVID. “

You know our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID, you know that, right. I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say is, I’m but you know sorry everybody dies of COVID.

:lol:
Of fraud, no there is no evidence, because none is happening. Of doctors getting paid more to code an ICD10 for COVID, yes. Very straightforward.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 47768
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:33 pm :roll:

That may keep the vote close enough to contest or, as Trump put it at a rally “when we win on Tuesday, or thank you, Supreme Court - shortly thereafter.”
Image
Image
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 47768
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:59 am
kalm wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:48 am

Still no evidence of if or to what extent this is happening. Just dear leader telling you so. Please let Gil and I know when you come up with some.

Yeah...but he didn’t accuse doctors, he simply stated a fact or something. From the quote you posted...

“You know our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID, you know that, right. I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say is, I’m but you know sorry everybody dies of COVID. “

You know our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID, you know that, right. I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say is, I’m but you know sorry everybody dies of COVID.

:lol:
Of fraud, no there is no evidence, because none is happening. Of doctors getting paid more to code an ICD10 for COVID, yes. Very straightforward.
So what was your point again? Not based on facts or evidence?
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:20 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:59 am

Of fraud, no there is no evidence, because none is happening. Of doctors getting paid more to code an ICD10 for COVID, yes. Very straightforward.
So what was your point again? Not based on facts or evidence?
It's fairly straightforward. When a doctor treats a patient, they have to list an ICD10 code that corresponds to their treatment. The insurance company then looks at what the doctor performed and checks the ICD10 code. If it meets their guidelines, the doctor gets paid the agreed upon rate.

With the passage of the CARES act, Ten new ICD10's were created specifically for COVID. These codes reimburse a doctor more than a traditional code because the procedure either costs more or is more labor intensive.

As these are brand new codes for something that came out of nowhere, the guidelines for using them are fairly broad. As such, doctors are allowed to use them in circumstances where COVID is suspected but not fully confirmed. As we move forward, the guidelines will tighten up and become more restrictive.

This is all that is happening. Doctors are getting paid more for COVID related treatments.

You ever have to go have your blood drawn? Did you ever notice the numbers on the slip? Like V75.4, 202.64? Those are the codes I'm talking about. My example codes are totally made up, so they probably aren't actual codes.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
Skjellyfetti
Anal
Anal
Posts: 13603
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:56 pm
I am a fan of: Appalachian

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Skjellyfetti »

If a doctor is putting ICD 10 codes that the patient didn't receive treatment for, that would be insurance fraud, no? Have any doctors been charged with insurance fraud for fake Covid billings? Why not?

And, you're claiming not just a few cases... but, massive insurance fraud across the country. :suspicious:
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:52 am If a doctor is putting ICD 10 codes that the patient didn't receive treatment for, that would be insurance fraud, no? Have any doctors been charged with insurance fraud for fake Covid billings? Why not?

And, you're claiming not just a few cases... but, massive insurance fraud across the country. :suspicious:
You are correct. That would be fraud.

I don't know if any doctors have been busted for "upcoding" for COVID. Chances are there would be very few, and of those, it would be most likely an accident. A doctor is not willing to risk career and reputation for what could amount to only an increase of $10.

I'm very familiar with this area, as I was a Medical Laboratory Sales Rep for 6 years. We were constantly dealing with billing issues because patients get a bill, they let the doctor know. Since our lab performed the testing, the doctor says, "fix it, or I leave for your competitor". I've been yelled at by more doctors... The answer was usually that the patient didn't understand their insurance.
Last edited by SeattleGriz on Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 47768
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:52 am If a doctor is putting ICD 10 codes that the patient didn't receive treatment for, that would be insurance fraud, no? Have any doctors been charged with insurance fraud for fake Covid billings? Why not?

And, you're claiming not just a few cases... but, massive insurance fraud across the country. :suspicious:
And Trump didn’t mention hospitals or administrators, he said “doctors”.

That’s all the average Trump supporter needs.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:04 am
Skjellyfetti wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:52 am If a doctor is putting ICD 10 codes that the patient didn't receive treatment for, that would be insurance fraud, no? Have any doctors been charged with insurance fraud for fake Covid billings? Why not?

And, you're claiming not just a few cases... but, massive insurance fraud across the country. :suspicious:
And Trump didn’t mention hospitals or administrators, he said “doctors”.

That’s all the average Trump supporter needs.
Because it is the doctor that is on the hook for the code, not administrators. When you submit a change to a code, you have to list who gave you the authority to change the code. At least that is what we did in our lab to cover our butts.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

Here's a good example. Remember when the guy on the motorcycle died in a crash, but it was listed as a COVID death? The morgue knew he died because of the crash, but had been asked to run a test on all recently deceased for COVID. The dead guy came back as positive for COVID.

The morgue was doing as instructed and received payment for the testing. Everyone knows the guy died from the crash, but now they have the confirmation he was COVID positive and it gets added to the data pile. This is why the payouts are so broad right now. They are trying to capture the data and also not put financial burden on doctors and hospitals.

It's the same way for other treatments. COVID may not be the primary, but the doctors have been asked to perform the test, so they try not to screw them over.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

As long as we are on the topic, I need to tell this story. I had just started my job as "Key Account Executive" with Labcorp. I go to visit an account in which we were the secondary lab, meaning that most of the business went to our competitor, Quest Laboratory.

I walk up to the front desk and ask how our service had been and if there were any issues to resolve. The front desk lady replies, "Oh, Dr so and so is really upset and wants to speak with you."

So I proceeded to read through 4 magazines as I waited over an hour for the doctor. When I finally get a chance to see him, he immediately starts ripping me and the lab a new one, while threatening to leave for our competitor.

After saying, "yes sir"and "I understand" around 10 times, he finally pulls out the lab test results he was ripping me a new one over and shows me the problem.

He finally gives me a chance to speak by demanding what I was going to do to remedy the situation.

I calmly looked at him and said, "I don't work for Quest, I work for LabCorp, would you like to switch now?". Lol

Fuckface had been reaming the wrong rep AND then wouldn't switch over to us. What a bitch.

I've seen the ugly side of many a physician.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
Col Hogan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11874
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:29 am
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Col Hogan »

“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 14987
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

SG is straight mudstomping mofos in this thread. :lol:
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 14987
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

Well, at least he didn't use "password". :rofl:

kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 47768
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:50 pm SG is straight mudstomping mofos in this thread. :lol:
:lol: I was just going to accept the terms of his surrender.

Must be a different thread you’re thinking of. This is the one with the Trump narrative that the virus is now going away and deaths aren’t really that high because...doctors...no wait, admins and hospitals...no wait doctors...no wait...
Image
Image
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 47768
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

Col Hogan wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:48 pm
Remember that one time when we used to post articles with actual links from verified journalistic sources, and Baldy would say “Glenn Greenwald!” And 89hen would guffaw “Rolling Stone!” instead of countless tweets with no links , satisfying one’s confirmation seeking bias?

That was awesome!
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:50 pm SG is straight mudstomping mofos in this thread. :lol:
Do I even need to say who is who in this clip?

Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9841
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
A.K.A.: Unification88
Location: Fence Sitter & Ball-Sack Splitter

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by UNI88 »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:50 pm SG is straight mudstomping mofos in this thread. :lol:
Really? Because he's seems about as confused as Joe Biden ...
SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:46 pm He didn't accuse doctors of fraud. He stated a fact.
SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:58 pm Sorry bro. Still can't agree. Now if Trump would have said the doctors were perpetrating fraud, you would be correct, but he wasn't.
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:59 am Of fraud, no there is no evidence, because none is happening. Of doctors getting paid more to code an ICD10 for COVID, yes. Very straightforward.
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:02 am You are correct. That would be fraud.
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19056
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by BDKJMU »

Lawl more liberal snowflakery.. think the cops handled it quite well in part 2.
BLM: Burning Looting Marxists
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

UNI88 wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:53 pm
SDHornet wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:50 pm SG is straight mudstomping mofos in this thread. :lol:
Really? Because he's seems about as confused as Joe Biden ...
SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:46 pm He didn't accuse doctors of fraud. He stated a fact.
SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:58 pm Sorry bro. Still can't agree. Now if Trump would have said the doctors were perpetrating fraud, you would be correct, but he wasn't.
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:59 am Of fraud, no there is no evidence, because none is happening. Of doctors getting paid more to code an ICD10 for COVID, yes. Very straightforward.
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:02 am You are correct. That would be fraud.
:lol:

Great troll though. Took me a minute to realize what you were up to. Had to edit my response.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
Skjellyfetti
Anal
Anal
Posts: 13603
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:56 pm
I am a fan of: Appalachian

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Dang. Insurance fraud sounds like it's getting really bad in El Paso.

I wonder if doctors are just killing otherwise healthy patients to get some of that Covid cash? Hmmm. :coffee:

"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
Baldy
Level4
Level4
Posts: 8511
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Southern

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:35 pm
Col Hogan wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:48 pm
Remember that one time when we used to post articles with actual links from verified journalistic sources, and Baldy would say “Glenn Greenwald!” And 89hen would guffaw “Rolling Stone!” instead of countless tweets with no links , satisfying one’s confirmation seeking bias?

That was awesome!
:lol:

Don't clutch your pearls so tight, klam. It's pretty obvious in the quoted tweet that Grenell was making a prediction. :dunce:
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 14987
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

Plagiarizing hillary? Just sad. :lol:

User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 14987
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:01 pm Dang. Insurance fraud sounds like it's getting really bad in El Paso.

I wonder if doctors are just killing otherwise healthy patients to get some of that Covid cash? Hmmm. :coffee:

How many of them are illegals? :coffee:
User avatar
89Hen
Maroon Supporter
Maroon Supporter
Posts: 36803
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:13 pm
I am a fan of: High Horses
A.K.A.: The Almighty Arbiter

Re: 2020 General Election

Post by 89Hen »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:33 am Just as some added thought...
:lol:
Image
Post Reply