2020 General Election

[kalm]

I'm sure there is SOME fraud on both sides. But it is not a significant problem. It was not a significant problem during 2020. Trump lost. And if we were living in a time where we didn't have a bunch of nut jobs in the base of one of the two major political parties everybody would recognize that.

Trump lost. But if Trump had WON, in the manner Biden won, with massive vote dumps in the middle of the night (even if legit), this country would have been burned to the ground in the ensuing weeks by the wingnuts on the left. You know it. I know it. The whole world knows it.

Wait! I thought Trumpers were only like the Dems protesting 2016?

[SDHornet]

Trump lost. But if Trump had WON, in the manner Biden won, with massive vote dumps in the middle of the night (even if legit), this country would have been burned to the ground in the ensuing weeks by the wingnuts on the left. You know it. I know it. The whole world knows it.

Wait! I thought Trumpers were only like the Dems protesting 2016 and 2000?

FIFY

[houndawg]

Wait! I thought Trumpers were only like the Dems protesting 2016 and 2000?

FIFY

Not this crybaby shit again....

[SDHornet]

FIFY

Not this crybaby shit again....

So butthurt about the double standard, or going to claim the "2000 election was stolen" narrative didn't happen?

[Baldy]

I think there is fraud by supporters of both parties and that's why MAGAts want to limit the scope of the audits to avoid shining a spotlight on locations where fraud favored Trump.

I'm sure there is SOME fraud on both sides. But it is not a significant problem. It was not a significant problem during 2020. Trump lost. And if we were living in a time where we didn't have a bunch of nut jobs in the base of one of the two major political parties everybody would recognize that.

Just yesterday, Terry McAuliffe stated in a campaign speech that the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial election was stolen from Stacey Abrams. Since 2000, every single election the Donks have lost have come along with claims of voter fraud, 'the seat was stolen', and/or the Conks only win because of voter suppression. Every.Single.Time.

[AZGrizFan]

Trump lost. But if Trump had WON, in the manner Biden won, with massive vote dumps in the middle of the night (even if legit), this country would have been burned to the ground in the ensuing weeks by the wingnuts on the left. You know it. I know it. The whole world knows it.

Wait! I thought Trumpers were only like the Dems protesting 2016?

I get that you can't deny the truth of the statement so you're attempting to deflect.

Again. For about the millionth time.

[UNI88]

Wait! I thought Trumpers were only like the Dems protesting 2016?

I get that you can't deny the truth of the statement so you're attempting to deflect.

Again. For about the millionth time.

I took his post to indicate that he agreed with you. If Trumpers in 2020 were like Dems were in 2016 (and 2000 - thanks SD) then it's fair wonder what might have happened if the Dems had lost another election under those circumstances. The concern is even more valid when the ANtiFA/BLM riots/insurrection of 2020 is added to the mix.

[JohnStOnge]

I'm sure there is SOME fraud on both sides. But it is not a significant problem. It was not a significant problem during 2020. Trump lost. And if we were living in a time where we didn't have a bunch of nut jobs in the base of one of the two major political parties everybody would recognize that.

We also had a bunch of nut jobs in Congress in 2017 who insisted on impeaching Trump in attempt to overturn the results of the 2016 election that was just as valid as the 2020 election. There are nut jobs on both sides.

I acknowledge both the Republican and Democratic nut jobs but you are laser focused and can't see past the Republican nut jobs because you are biased. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Saying a President should be impeached is different than saying the election wasn't valid. Trump, indeed, SHOULD have been impeached at least twice. And he SHOULD have been removed from office. He wasn't because his Party refused to be objective.

[AZGrizFan]

We also had a bunch of nut jobs in Congress in 2017 who insisted on impeaching Trump in attempt to overturn the results of the 2016 election that was just as valid as the 2020 election. There are nut jobs on both sides.

I acknowledge both the Republican and Democratic nut jobs but you are laser focused and can't see past the Republican nut jobs because you are biased. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Saying a President should be impeached is different than saying the election wasn't valid. Trump, indeed, SHOULD have been impeached at least twice. And he SHOULD have been removed from office. He wasn't because his Party refused to be objective.

And once again he proves your point, 88.

[kalm]

For those who still wonder if a coup was actually being considered. This alone should disqualify Trump for national office ever again by any reasonable person.

Former Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows turned over to the House select committee investigating the 6 January Capitol attack a PowerPoint recommending Donald Trump to declare a national security emergency in order to return himself to the presidency.

The fact that Meadows was in possession of a PowerPoint the day before the Capitol attack that detailed ways to stage a coup suggests he was at least aware of efforts by Trump and his allies to stop Joe Biden’s certification from taking place on Jan 6th.

The PowerPoint, titled “Election Fraud, Foreign Interference & Options for 6 Jan”, made several recommendations for Trump to pursue in order to retain the presidency for a second term on the basis of lies and debunked conspiracies about widespread election fraud.

Meadows turned over a version of the PowerPoint presentation that he received in an email and spanned 38 pages, according to a source familiar with the matter.

The Guardian reviewed a second, 36-page version of the PowerPoint marked for dissemination with 5 January metadata, which had some differences with what the select committee received. But the title of the PowerPoint and its recommendations remained the same, the source said.

Senators and members of Congress should first be briefed about foreign interference, the PowerPoint said, at which point Trump could declare a national emergency, declare all electronic voting invalid, and ask Congress to agree on a constitutionally acceptable remedy.

The PowerPoint also outlined three options for then vice-president Mike Pence to abuse his largely ceremonial role at the joint session of Congress on 6 January, when Biden was to be certified president, and unilaterally return Trump to the White House.

Pence could pursue one of three options, the PowerPoint said: seat Trump slates of electors over the objections of Democrats in key states, reject the Biden slates of electors, or delay the certification to allow for a “vetting” and counting of only “legal paper ballots”.

The final option for Pence is similar to an option that was simultaneously being advanced on 4 and 5 January by Trump lieutenants – led by lawyers Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman, as well as Trump strategist Steve Bannon – working from the Willard hotel in Washington DC.

The Guardian revealed last week that sometime between the late evening of 5 January and the early hours of 6 January, after Pence declined to go ahead with such plans, Trump then pressed his lieutenants about how to stop Biden’s certification from taking place entirely.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ziDzQ7TqBY

[CID1990]

For those who still wonder if a coup was actually being considered. This alone should disqualify Trump for national office ever again by any reasonable person.

Former Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows turned over to the House select committee investigating the 6 January Capitol attack a PowerPoint recommending Donald Trump to declare a national security emergency in order to return himself to the presidency.

The fact that Meadows was in possession of a PowerPoint the day before the Capitol attack that detailed ways to stage a coup suggests he was at least aware of efforts by Trump and his allies to stop Joe Biden’s certification from taking place on Jan 6th.

The PowerPoint, titled “Election Fraud, Foreign Interference & Options for 6 Jan”, made several recommendations for Trump to pursue in order to retain the presidency for a second term on the basis of lies and debunked conspiracies about widespread election fraud.

Meadows turned over a version of the PowerPoint presentation that he received in an email and spanned 38 pages, according to a source familiar with the matter.

The Guardian reviewed a second, 36-page version of the PowerPoint marked for dissemination with 5 January metadata, which had some differences with what the select committee received. But the title of the PowerPoint and its recommendations remained the same, the source said.

Senators and members of Congress should first be briefed about foreign interference, the PowerPoint said, at which point Trump could declare a national emergency, declare all electronic voting invalid, and ask Congress to agree on a constitutionally acceptable remedy.

The PowerPoint also outlined three options for then vice-president Mike Pence to abuse his largely ceremonial role at the joint session of Congress on 6 January, when Biden was to be certified president, and unilaterally return Trump to the White House.

Pence could pursue one of three options, the PowerPoint said: seat Trump slates of electors over the objections of Democrats in key states, reject the Biden slates of electors, or delay the certification to allow for a “vetting” and counting of only “legal paper ballots”.

The final option for Pence is similar to an option that was simultaneously being advanced on 4 and 5 January by Trump lieutenants – led by lawyers Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman, as well as Trump strategist Steve Bannon – working from the Willard hotel in Washington DC.

The Guardian revealed last week that sometime between the late evening of 5 January and the early hours of 6 January, after Pence declined to go ahead with such plans, Trump then pressed his lieutenants about how to stop Biden’s certification from taking place entirely.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ziDzQ7TqBY

If only they had gotten Nancy’s big, magic gavel in the Q-Anon Shaman’s hands…

so close!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnStOnge]

Saying a President should be impeached is different than saying the election wasn't valid. Trump, indeed, SHOULD have been impeached at least twice. And he SHOULD have been removed from office. He wasn't because his Party refused to be objective.

And once again he proves your point, 88.

Not at all. UNI appears to be one of those people who thinks it important to say "a pox on both their houses." We are not in that situation right now. Right now, the Republican side is clearly WAY worse. It is a threat to our system of government. It is a threat to government according to the Will of the People.

Trump should, indeed, have been impeached and removed from office. Justin Amash was correct when he said that while referring to the Mueller investigation results and his basis for saying that was correct. And he should have been impeached and removed from office for attempting to leverage US aid to Ukraine to get a bogus investigation of a political opponent.

[AZGrizFan]

And once again he proves your point, 88.

Not at all. UNI appears to be one of those people who thinks it important to say "a pox on both their houses." We are not in that situation right now. Right now, the Republican side is clearly WAY worse. It is a threat to our system of government. It is a threat to government according to the Will of the People.

Trump should, indeed, have been impeached and removed from office. Justin Amash was correct when he said that while referring to the Mueller investigation results and his basis for saying that was correct. And he should have been impeached and removed from office for attempting to leverage US aid to Ukraine to get a bogus investigation of a political opponent.

Yes, we ARE in that situation right now. And have been for quite some time.

[kalm]

Not at all. UNI appears to be one of those people who thinks it important to say "a pox on both their houses." We are not in that situation right now. Right now, the Republican side is clearly WAY worse. It is a threat to our system of government. It is a threat to government according to the Will of the People.

Trump should, indeed, have been impeached and removed from office. Justin Amash was correct when he said that while referring to the Mueller investigation results and his basis for saying that was correct. And he should have been impeached and removed from office for attempting to leverage US aid to Ukraine to get a bogus investigation of a political opponent.

Yes, we ARE in that situation right now. And have been for quite some time.

But seriously…have you watched Liz Cheney’s reading of the Meadows messages on the Jan 6th investigation?

Dems…incompetent, greedy, insulated, hypocritical…etc…sure!

But Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, the Republicans right now….

Not to mention Fox News and Don Jr. simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it.

Wowsers…

[UNI88]

Yes, we ARE in that situation right now. And have been for quite some time.

But seriously…have you watched Liz Cheney’s reading of the Meadows messages on the Jan 6th investigation?

Dems…incompetent, greedy, insulated, hypocritical…etc…sure!

But Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, the Republicans right now….

Not to mention Fox News and Don Jr. simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it.

Wowsers…

John has demonstrated his bias against Trump over and over. That bias clouds his judgment when comparing Republicans to Democrats. He tries to cloak his bias by self-identifying as a conservative and anything he types on this subject is suspect.

If it's bad that Fox News and Don Jr. were "simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it" what is it that AOChe, the rest of the Squat, Waters, etc. weren't only not diminishing or trying to stop the AnTiFa violence they were supporting it?

January 6 might have been a hold my beer moment for the MAGAts to up the ante on what illiberals did the summer before but it was NOT leaps and bounds worse. I'm waiting to see how the illiberals one up the MAGAts when Dems lose the Senate and probably the House in 2022.

[AZGrizFan]

Yes, we ARE in that situation right now. And have been for quite some time.

But seriously…have you watched Liz Cheney’s reading of the Meadows messages on the Jan 6th investigation?

Dems…incompetent, greedy, insulated, hypocritical…etc…sure!

But Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, the Republicans right now….

Not to mention Fox News and Don Jr. simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it.

Wowsers…

For every Liz Cheney there’s 2/3 squad members (and growing every day, it seems). And for every Fox News there’s (literally) EVERY OTHER MSM “source”.

It’s race to the bottom and they’re in a dead heat.

[SDHornet]

But seriously…have you watched Liz Cheney’s reading of the Meadows messages on the Jan 6th investigation?

Dems…incompetent, greedy, insulated, hypocritical…etc…sure!

But Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, the Republicans right now….

Not to mention Fox News and Don Jr. simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it.

Wowsers…

John has demonstrated his bias against Trump over and over. That bias clouds his judgment when comparing Republicans to Democrats. He tries to cloak his bias by self-identifying as a conservative and anything he types on this subject is suspect.

If it's bad that Fox News and Don Jr. were "simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it" what is it that AOChe, the rest of the Squat, Waters, etc. weren't only not diminishing or trying to stop the AnTiFa violence they were supporting it?

January 6 might have been a hold my beer moment for the MAGAts to up the ante on what illiberals did the summer before but it was NOT leaps and bounds worse. I'm waiting to see how the illiberals one up the MAGAts when Dems lose the Senate and probably the House in 2022.

Funny how there were texts about wanting it to be stopped...

...which of course runs contrary to the "insurrection" narrative...

...and still waiting for someone to actually be convicted of insurrection.

[UNI88]

But seriously…have you watched Liz Cheney’s reading of the Meadows messages on the Jan 6th investigation?

Dems…incompetent, greedy, insulated, hypocritical…etc…sure!

But Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, the Republicans right now….

Not to mention Fox News and Don Jr. simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it.

Wowsers…

For every Liz Cheney there’s 2/3 squad members (and growing every day, it seems). And for every Fox News there’s (literally) EVERY OTHER MSM “source”.

It’s race to the bottom and they’re in a dead heat.

Liz Cheney is despicable (because she's a neo-con not because she had the brainstem and backbone to oppose Trump) but she's not the comparison to the squad, that would be MTG, Boebert, Gaetz and Gosar.

[kalm]

But seriously…have you watched Liz Cheney’s reading of the Meadows messages on the Jan 6th investigation?

Dems…incompetent, greedy, insulated, hypocritical…etc…sure!

But Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, the Republicans right now….

Not to mention Fox News and Don Jr. simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it.

Wowsers…

John has demonstrated his bias against Trump over and over. That bias clouds his judgment when comparing Republicans to Democrats. He tries to cloak his bias by self-identifying as a conservative and anything he types on this subject is suspect.

If it's bad that Fox News and Don Jr. were "simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it" what is it that AOChe, the rest of the Squat, Waters, etc. weren't only not diminishing or trying to stop the AnTiFa violence they were supporting it?

January 6 might have been a hold my beer moment for the MAGAts to up the ante on what illiberals did the summer before but it was NOT leaps and bounds worse. I'm waiting to see how the illiberals one up the MAGAts when Dems lose the Senate and probably the House in 2022.

No leader should support violence. This is true.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ocasio- ... iot-2019-7

Leaps and bounds is a loose phrase. When you read about MAGA do you initially think of equivalency to the left or do you think “man that’s fucked up” before turning to “both sides do it!”?

There are some important differences between the two right now.

[UNI88]

John has demonstrated his bias against Trump over and over. That bias clouds his judgment when comparing Republicans to Democrats. He tries to cloak his bias by self-identifying as a conservative and anything he types on this subject is suspect.

If it's bad that Fox News and Don Jr. were "simultaneously diminishing the ordeal and suggesting Antifa plants in the crowd while panic messaging Meadows to get Trump to stop it" what is it that AOChe, the rest of the Squat, Waters, etc. weren't only not diminishing or trying to stop the AnTiFa violence they were supporting it?

January 6 might have been a hold my beer moment for the MAGAts to up the ante on what illiberals did the summer before but it was NOT leaps and bounds worse. I'm waiting to see how the illiberals one up the MAGAts when Dems lose the Senate and probably the House in 2022.

No leader should support violence. This is true.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ocasio- ... iot-2019-7

Leaps and bounds is a loose phrase. When you read about MAGA do you initially think of equivalency to the left or do you think “man that’s fucked up” before turning to “both sides do it!”?

There are some important differences between the two right now.

Important differences? Your interpretation of those differences is influenced by your ideological beliefs and priorities.

The group that feels "marginalized" is the group that is most likely to resort to extremes. In the summer of 2020 it was illiberals. Following the November elections, it was MAGAts. These things are not happening in a vacuum, they are building upon each other, one-upping each other. Who will feel "marginalized" and how far will they take it following the 2022 elections?

[kalm]

No leader should support violence. This is true.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ocasio- ... iot-2019-7

Leaps and bounds is a loose phrase. When you read about MAGA do you initially think of equivalency to the left or do you think “man that’s fucked up” before turning to “both sides do it!”?

There are some important differences between the two right now.

Important differences? Your interpretation of those differences is influenced by your ideological beliefs and priorities.

The group that feels "marginalized" is the group that is most likely to resort to extremes. In the summer of 2020 it was illiberals. Following the November elections, it was MAGAts. These things are not happening in a vacuum, they are building upon each other, one-upping each other. Who will feel "marginalized" and how far will they take it following the 2022 elections?

Don’t disagree. But I’d like to see YOUR interpretation of any differences.

[UNI88]

Important differences? Your interpretation of those differences is influenced by your ideological beliefs and priorities.

The group that feels "marginalized" is the group that is most likely to resort to extremes. In the summer of 2020 it was illiberals. Following the November elections, it was MAGAts. These things are not happening in a vacuum, they are building upon each other, one-upping each other. Who will feel "marginalized" and how far will they take it following the 2022 elections?

Don’t disagree. But I’d like to see YOUR interpretation of any differences.

I've previously posted my opinions on how the AnTiFa riots and January 6 were similar and different and why I don't think the differences are as significant as pseudo-progressives want to argue they are.

And if you think the words and actions of MTG, Boebert, Gosar, Gaetz and their MAGAt supporters are outrageous, I can't wait to see your reaction to the words and actions of AOC, Omar, Pressley, Waters, etc. and their supporters after the November 2022 elections.

[Winterborn]

Don’t disagree. But I’d like to see YOUR interpretation of any differences.

I've previously posted my opinions on how the AnTiFa riots and January 6 were similar and different and why I don't think the differences are as significant as pseudo-progressives want to argue they are.

And if you think the words and actions of MTG, Boebert, Gosar, Gaetz and their MAGAt supporters are outrageous, I can't wait to see your reaction to the words and actions of AOC, Omar, Pressley, Waters, etc. and their supporters after the November 2022 elections.

Why even wait that long. Just look at their comments from the last couple of years.

[UNI88]

I've previously posted my opinions on how the AnTiFa riots and January 6 were similar and different and why I don't think the differences are as significant as pseudo-progressives want to argue they are.

And if you think the words and actions of MTG, Boebert, Gosar, Gaetz and their MAGAt supporters are outrageous, I can't wait to see your reaction to the words and actions of AOC, Omar, Pressley, Waters, etc. and their supporters after the November 2022 elections.

Why even wait that long. Just look at their comments from the last couple of years.

It's going to get worse. The reaction of the left to losing control of Congress is not going to be pretty. And the delicious irony of Kalm trying to explain how January 6 was worse is going to tickle our funny bones.

89 and Ganny, I'm predicting the future again.

[GannonFan]

Why even wait that long. Just look at their comments from the last couple of years.

It's going to get worse. The reaction of the left to losing control of Congress is not going to be pretty. And the delicious irony of Kalm trying to explain how January 6 was worse is going to tickle our funny bones.

89 and Ganny, I'm predicting the future again.

Not much predicting, it would be an absolute shock for the Dems to retain control of Congress at this point. And it would be an absolute shock if Dems don't challenge those results, and in some cases do so violently.