2020 General Election

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:31 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:29 pm

Look like a bunch of sheep.
But this almost over-threw our gubmint...or so we are told.
I know you’re into alt lefties so here’s an interesting bit from Tim Poole on Russel Brand’s podcast. Poole talks about the cold civil war already underway with a nod to historical revolutionary movements that take years to develop over a series of events rather than just a single day of semi-coordinated outrage. This one is underway and hopefully remains remains relatively peaceful.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2 ... 0534962974
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:41 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:31 pm

But this almost over-threw our gubmint...or so we are told.
I know you’re into alt lefties so here’s an interesting bit from Tim Poole on Russel Brand’s podcast. Poole talks about the cold civil war already underway with a nod to historical revolutionary movements that take years to develop over a series of events rather than just a single day of semi-coordinated outrage. This one is underway and hopefully remains remains relatively peaceful.
Seems a bit overdramatic. We had one in the 60's with hippies, in the 80's with yuppies and now in the 2000's with the woke crowd. All without much ado.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:41 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:41 am

I know you’re into alt lefties so here’s an interesting bit from Tim Poole on Russel Brand’s podcast. Poole talks about the cold civil war already underway with a nod to historical revolutionary movements that take years to develop over a series of events rather than just a single day of semi-coordinated outrage. This one is underway and hopefully remains remains relatively peaceful.
Seems a bit overdramatic. We had one in the 60's with hippies, in the 80's with yuppies and now in the 2000's with the woke crowd. All without much ado.
This is Poole’s take. I think it has validity. This one feels different than those you listed. Historical echoes and such.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:55 am
89Hen wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:41 am
Seems a bit overdramatic. We had one in the 60's with hippies, in the 80's with yuppies and now in the 2000's with the woke crowd. All without much ado.
This is Poole’s take. I think it has validity. This one feels different than those you listed. Historical echoes and such.
I think it's far cooler than when things were getting hot in the '60's. TV today, coupled with the internet, make some really small things look much bigger than they are. Just because I get to see some mouth breathing Proud Boy get into an armed scuffle with some still-living-in-his-Mom's-basement Antifa guy, both armed with shields they made out of a trashcan, doesn't mean that it's widespread or about to show up on my front door. I believe we're really polarized as a country politically right now, but I also believe we really care far less about the actual detail of politics now than we did back in the '60's for instance. People really believed in their causes back then - they travelled all over the country to protest and take stands and we were fighting a real war with considerable casualty lists every day. People will go to a Trump rally or a BLM rally today, but only if it's really convenient and not too far away. And heck, Trump's biggest credo is the "f*** this" mentality, which is a far cry from the Port Huron Statement and the real commitment and fervor exhibited then. For better or for worse, we're far less committed to our causes now than we were in the cultural movements that came before.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:55 am
89Hen wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:41 am
Seems a bit overdramatic. We had one in the 60's with hippies, in the 80's with yuppies and now in the 2000's with the woke crowd. All without much ado.
This is Poole’s take. I think it has validity. This one feels different than those you listed. Historical echoes and such.
Different in that it is smaller and less violent?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:39 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:55 am

This is Poole’s take. I think it has validity. This one feels different than those you listed. Historical echoes and such.
I think it's far cooler than when things were getting hot in the '60's. TV today, coupled with the internet, make some really small things look much bigger than they are. Just because I get to see some mouth breathing Proud Boy get into an armed scuffle with some still-living-in-his-Mom's-basement Antifa guy, both armed with shields they made out of a trashcan, doesn't mean that it's widespread or about to show up on my front door. I believe we're really polarized as a country politically right now, but I also believe we really care far less about the actual detail of politics now than we did back in the '60's for instance. People really believed in their causes back then - they travelled all over the country to protest and take stands and we were fighting a real war with considerable casualty lists every day. People will go to a Trump rally or a BLM rally today, but only if it's really convenient and not too far away. And heck, Trump's biggest credo is the "f*** this" mentality, which is a far cry from the Port Huron Statement and the real commitment and fervor exhibited then. For better or for worse, we're far less committed to our causes now than we were in the cultural movements that came before.
Fair points, especially on the media influence.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:44 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:55 am

This is Poole’s take. I think it has validity. This one feels different than those you listed. Historical echoes and such.
Different in that it is smaller and less violent?
Not if you listen to the right talk about BLM protests or the left talk about Jan. 6th.

And it doesn’t have to always be about violence. The divisiveness just seems to be at an extraordinarily high level.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:14 am
89Hen wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:44 am

Different in that it is smaller and less violent?
Not if you listen to the right talk about BLM protests or the left talk about Jan. 6th.

And it doesn’t have to always be about violence. The divisiveness just seems to be at an extraordinarily high level.
Difference being one side has burned and looted multiple US cities (with some of it still ongoing) while the other side basically had one march in protest of a stolen election. Comparing the two isn’t exactly “shades of gray”….
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

GannonFan wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:39 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:55 am

This is Poole’s take. I think it has validity. This one feels different than those you listed. Historical echoes and such.
I think it's far cooler than when things were getting hot in the '60's. TV today, coupled with the internet, make some really small things look much bigger than they are. Just because I get to see some mouth breathing Proud Boy get into an armed scuffle with some still-living-in-his-Mom's-basement Antifa guy, both armed with shields they made out of a trashcan, doesn't mean that it's widespread or about to show up on my front door. I believe we're really polarized as a country politically right now, but I also believe we really care far less about the actual detail of politics now than we did back in the '60's for instance. People really believed in their causes back then - they travelled all over the country to protest and take stands and we were fighting a real war with considerable casualty lists every day. People will go to a Trump rally or a BLM rally today, but only if it's really convenient and not too far away. And heck, Trump's biggest credo is the "f*** this" mentality, which is a far cry from the Port Huron Statement and the real commitment and fervor exhibited then. For better or for worse, we're far less committed to our causes now than we were in the cultural movements that came before.
Exactly. Living near Seattle, you would expect I couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting an Antifa supporter. Don't think I've ever seen one on my trips into town. They usually stay localized.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

One example of a soft coup attempt…

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/backer ... Ew0b_6jFYE
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:32 am One example of a soft coup attempt…
:lol:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:32 am One example of a soft coup attempt…

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

Oops…wrong thread. :oops:
Last edited by kalm on Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:15 am PT is a bitch. Can’t raise my left arm above my shoulder from a kneeling position.

Acupuncture is weird af. Don’t even notice the needles. Suction cups drawing blood out and burning chrysanthemum over pressure points and injured area for deep heat therapy is…different.

But…golf didn’t hurt as bad and was able to hit it a club further.

Might be able to replace the old man 5 hybrid…back to an iron again.
Pain is weakness leaving the body. :thumb:

Haven't got around to trying acupuncture yet, but a good deep tissue massage has worked wonders for me and my sleep patterns. Now if I could just keep up my core exercises I wouldn't have so many lower back issues. :ohno:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:30 am
kalm wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:15 am PT is a bitch. Can’t raise my left arm above my shoulder from a kneeling position.

Acupuncture is weird af. Don’t even notice the needles. Suction cups drawing blood out and burning chrysanthemum over pressure points and injured area for deep heat therapy is…different.

But…golf didn’t hurt as bad and was able to hit it a club further.

Might be able to replace the old man 5 hybrid…back to an iron again.
Pain is weakness leaving the body. :thumb:

Haven't got around to trying acupuncture yet, but a good deep tissue massage has worked wonders for me and my sleep patterns. Now if I could just keep up my core exercises I wouldn't have so many lower back issues. :ohno:
Yep…used to see a Rolfer which really helped. I’m now seeing a PRRT massage therapist. Make it hurt!

Core for strength, stretches and massage therapy balls for pain relief when it comes to lower back.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

Trump to Texas: “Jump!”

Texas: “How high?”
Eight and a half hours after former President Donald J. Trump made a public demand for Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas to back legislation to create a “forensic audit of the 2020 election,” the Texas secretary of state’s office announced a “comprehensive forensic audit” of the results from four of the state’s largest counties.

The quick response by state officials in Texas, which Mr. Trump carried last year by more than five percentage points, was the latest example of the former president’s enduring influence over the Republican Party, particularly when it comes to his efforts to undermine public confidence in the legitimacy of his loss last year to President Biden.

“Governor Abbott, we need a ‘Forensic Audit of the 2020 Election,’” Mr. Trump said in a midday open letter to Mr. Abbott. “Texans know voting fraud occurred in some of their counties.”

Texas is currently without a secretary of state, after the May retirement of Ruth Ruggero Hughs. Mr. Abbott, a Republican, has yet to appoint a successor.

Nevertheless, the office released a two-sentence statement late Thursday stating that it would examine ballots from the 2020 election in Collin, Dallas, Harris and Tarrant Counties. The news release called those counties the “two largest Democrat counties and two largest Republican counties” in the state, but of the four, only Collin County backed Mr. Trump against Mr. Biden in the 2020 election. The statement said the audit process had already begun…..

The various reviews have not uncovered any significant evidence of fraud or impropriety in the vote counting. But they have created a new kind of security risk as third parties gain access to voting equipment and raised questions about the use of public resources to investigate Republican conspiracy theories.

To date, there have been no serious allegations that the Texas election was flawed.

Texas Democrats called the audit the latest attempt by Mr. Abbott and the state’s Republicans to cater to Mr. Trump.

“This is all an organized effort to overturn the will of the people in an effort to fuel the ‘Big Lie’ and stroke Trump’s ego,” said Gilberto Hinojosa, the chairman of the Texas Democratic Party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/23/us/p ... wxzCp6jKtw
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

AZ audit released today at 1pm.

We'll see if MCBOS plays the same game as last time.

Audit:. We've found 35,000 ballots in which we can't account for and have reached out to MCBOS for clarification.

MCBOS: (Releases press statement). Can you believe the audit doesn't know where the ballots came from?

Audit: That's why we asked you for clarification three weeks ago, but you wouldn't reply. We would not know the answer, as MCBOS has control of the records to determine the answer and wouldn't assist.

It's counting ballots. Pretty hard to screw that up.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by ∞∞∞ »

kalm wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:33 am Trump to Texas: “Jump!”

Texas: “How high?”
Eight and a half hours after former President Donald J. Trump made a public demand for Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas to back legislation to create a “forensic audit of the 2020 election,” the Texas secretary of state’s office announced a “comprehensive forensic audit” of the results from four of the state’s largest counties.

The quick response by state officials in Texas, which Mr. Trump carried last year by more than five percentage points, was the latest example of the former president’s enduring influence over the Republican Party, particularly when it comes to his efforts to undermine public confidence in the legitimacy of his loss last year to President Biden.

“Governor Abbott, we need a ‘Forensic Audit of the 2020 Election,’” Mr. Trump said in a midday open letter to Mr. Abbott. “Texans know voting fraud occurred in some of their counties.”

Texas is currently without a secretary of state, after the May retirement of Ruth Ruggero Hughs. Mr. Abbott, a Republican, has yet to appoint a successor.

Nevertheless, the office released a two-sentence statement late Thursday stating that it would examine ballots from the 2020 election in Collin, Dallas, Harris and Tarrant Counties. The news release called those counties the “two largest Democrat counties and two largest Republican counties” in the state, but of the four, only Collin County backed Mr. Trump against Mr. Biden in the 2020 election. The statement said the audit process had already begun…..

The various reviews have not uncovered any significant evidence of fraud or impropriety in the vote counting. But they have created a new kind of security risk as third parties gain access to voting equipment and raised questions about the use of public resources to investigate Republican conspiracy theories.

To date, there have been no serious allegations that the Texas election was flawed.

Texas Democrats called the audit the latest attempt by Mr. Abbott and the state’s Republicans to cater to Mr. Trump.

“This is all an organized effort to overturn the will of the people in an effort to fuel the ‘Big Lie’ and stroke Trump’s ego,” said Gilberto Hinojosa, the chairman of the Texas Democratic Party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/23/us/p ... wxzCp6jKtw
I don't think there's widespread voter fraud anywhere in the United States, but if I were to guess the places it actually occurs, it'd be small-town America and rural locations where there aren't 1000 eyes on the process and people know each other.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

SeattleGriz wrote:AZ audit released today at 1pm.

We'll see if MCBOS plays the same game as last time.

Audit:. We've found 35,000 ballots in which we can't account for and have reached out to MCBOS for clarification.

MCBOS: (Releases press statement). Can you believe the audit doesn't know where the ballots came from?

Audit: That's why we asked you for clarification three weeks ago, but you wouldn't reply. We would not know the answer, as MCBOS has control of the records to determine the answer and wouldn't assist.

It's counting ballots. Pretty hard to screw that up.
Prediction: Partisan audit will uncover nothing nefarious or anomalies we don’t already know about or even expect in an election. It Will, in essence, confirm what the election and previous audits have all reported.


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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Ibanez wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:49 am
SeattleGriz wrote:AZ audit released today at 1pm.

We'll see if MCBOS plays the same game as last time.

Audit:. We've found 35,000 ballots in which we can't account for and have reached out to MCBOS for clarification.

MCBOS: (Releases press statement). Can you believe the audit doesn't know where the ballots came from?

Audit: That's why we asked you for clarification three weeks ago, but you wouldn't reply. We would not know the answer, as MCBOS has control of the records to determine the answer and wouldn't assist.

It's counting ballots. Pretty hard to screw that up.
Prediction: Partisan audit will uncover nothing nefarious or anomalies we don’t already know about or even expect in an election. It Will, in essence, confirm what the election and previous audits have all reported.
Except it wasted time, taxpayer money, erodes faith in our Democracy, and Maricopa County has to waste $3 million it didn't plan to replace voting machines they got in 2019 since no one could guarantee the machines wouldn't be tampered with during the audit.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

∞∞∞ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:56 am
Ibanez wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:49 am
Prediction: Partisan audit will uncover nothing nefarious or anomalies we don’t already know about or even expect in an election. It Will, in essence, confirm what the election and previous audits have all reported.
Except it wasted time, taxpayer money, erodes faith in our Democracy, and Maricopa County has to waste $3 million it didn't plan to replace voting machines they got in 2019 since no one could guarantee the machines wouldn't be tampered with during the audit.
How can machines be certified before an election, but not after they have been inspected? Are the people who certify the machines so inept they can't put the machines in a viable state?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by ∞∞∞ »

SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:05 am
∞∞∞ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:56 am

Except it wasted time, taxpayer money, erodes faith in our Democracy, and Maricopa County has to waste $3 million it didn't plan to replace voting machines they got in 2019 since no one could guarantee the machines wouldn't be tampered with during the audit.
How can machines be certified before an election, but not after they have been inspected? Are the people who certify the machines so inept they can't put the machines in a viable state?
They can't when the people inspecting the machines can't guarantee who has access to them.

It's the same as any secure device, and doubly-so for election devices.

You miss the point though. Audits are fine but this audit was completely unacceptable, unprofessional, and a waste of resources. At one point during the process, a journalist simply walked in to investigate and had free access to the ballots.
Last edited by ∞∞∞ on Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

∞∞∞ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:56 am
Ibanez wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:49 am
Prediction: Partisan audit will uncover nothing nefarious or anomalies we don’t already know about or even expect in an election. It Will, in essence, confirm what the election and previous audits have all reported.
Except it wasted time, taxpayer money, erodes faith in our Democracy, and Maricopa County has to waste $3 million it didn't plan to replace voting machines they got in 2019 since no one could guarantee the machines wouldn't be tampered with during the audit.
Eroding faith in the system might be part of the strategy.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by ∞∞∞ »

kalm wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:21 am
∞∞∞ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:56 am

Except it wasted time, taxpayer money, erodes faith in our Democracy, and Maricopa County has to waste $3 million it didn't plan to replace voting machines they got in 2019 since no one could guarantee the machines wouldn't be tampered with during the audit.
Eroding faith in the system might be part of the strategy.
Yup. GOP has gone full fascist and are attempting a soft coup.

They might succeed too. Rejecting results, these audits, implementing partisans to certify elections, January 6, etc. all point to a party heading in an ominous direction. David Frum's words have never been more true: "If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.”
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:21 am
∞∞∞ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:56 am

Except it wasted time, taxpayer money, erodes faith in our Democracy, and Maricopa County has to waste $3 million it didn't plan to replace voting machines they got in 2019 since no one could guarantee the machines wouldn't be tampered with during the audit.
Eroding faith in the system might be part of the strategy.
You mean like the donks did for four years with their ridiculous Russiagate conspiracy?
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