Next Up: Lancaster PA

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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by CitadelGrad »

kalm wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:31 am
Pwns wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:12 am
Do people really want unarmed "Civil Peace Officers" replacing police officers to go deal with these types of people? Good luck finding anyone willing to work places that need policing the most.
I haven’t seen much on defunders saying police should never be armed. You would think a domestic dispute scenario is one of those occasions.
I've heard a number of police defunders and abolitionists say that police shouldn't be called to domestic disputes.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by CitadelGrad »

kalm wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:28 am
UNI88 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:30 am


So you support appeasement of people using fascist tactics to intimidate and even assasinate people they disagree wth?

The anti-maskers are marching and protesting and you dismiss them. Do they need to get violent and destroy property so that you and the liberal politicians will listen to them?
Huh? What part of it “sucks” did you miss? I’ve said several times in previous posts that the protests were a bad idea.

Im just observing reality based on history and what’s currently happening. :coffee:
Why are protests a bad idea? Aren't they all peaceful. Isn't a peaceful protest permitted by the U.S. Constitution? Why do you hate the U.S. Constitution?
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by andy7171 »

89Hen wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:51 am
GannonFan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:21 am
Right in Lancaster are a cluster of colleges, including some tiny ones, but most of the county is pretty rural - it's one of the Amish hotbeds in PA.
Downtown Lancaster has some remarkably sketchy parts. I was just there for a wedding of my daughter's BFF from college. They live not far from where this happened.
All of south central PA is sketchy as hell. I was shocked when I found out too.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:03 am
UNI88 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:44 am

Pretty please isn't working for the anti-maskers and the alt-right either.

We need to be condemning this type of behavior not just saying it's bad but rationalizing it as understandable.

The really stupid thing is that it is helping Trump gain ground with moderates and working class whites. If Trump wins in November, the "protesters" will just need to look in the mirror if they want to understand why.
I agree completely on the political ramifications and I’m not rationalizing anything.

It’s similar to the wealth inequality argument. The poor just need to work harder and make better decisions. Buying a TV, car, or home you can’t afford is irrational. That doesn’t mean that at some point the serfs won’t rise up and think ‘hey...we want a bigger slice.’

Cops shouldn’t extra judiciously kill people and protestors should protest from home during a pandemic and never resort to violence and destruction.

You just don’t like it when I’m a centrist. :kisswink:
I don't think you and I are that far apart on the the wealth inequality argument but we could probably spend an entire afternoon debating the details. In a nutshell, one of the things that really annoys me about it is the reality that the poor in America are better off than the average person in most of the world. The focus should be on creating opportunities and raising the floor not shrinking the wealth gap. Shrinking the wealth gap is a socialist canard that I fear will lead to mediocrity and misery.

Cops shouldn't extra judiciously kill people and when they do, they should be charged and prosecuted. I would wager that the percentage of cops killed in interactions with the public is significantly higher than the percentage of African Americans killed in interactions with the cops. Based on my experience, most cops are good cops, it's just as much BS to stereotype a cop because of their profession as it is to stereotype someone because of their race, gender, sexual preferences or religion. It's an important but dangerous job that we're making less appealing which is foolishly short-sighted.

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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:40 am
kalm wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:03 am


I agree completely on the political ramifications and I’m not rationalizing anything.

It’s similar to the wealth inequality argument. The poor just need to work harder and make better decisions. Buying a TV, car, or home you can’t afford is irrational. That doesn’t mean that at some point the serfs won’t rise up and think ‘hey...we want a bigger slice.’

Cops shouldn’t extra judiciously kill people and protestors should protest from home during a pandemic and never resort to violence and destruction.

You just don’t like it when I’m a centrist. :kisswink:
I don't think you and I are that far apart on the the wealth inequality argument but we could probably spend an entire afternoon debating the details. In a nutshell, one of the things that really annoys me about it is the reality that the poor in America are better off than the average person in most of the world. The focus should be on creating opportunities and raising the floor not shrinking the wealth gap. Shrinking the wealth gap is a socialist canard that I fear will lead to mediocrity and misery.

Cops shouldn't extra judiciously kill people and when they do, they should be charged and prosecuted. I would wager that the percentage of cops killed in interactions with the public is significantly higher than the percentage of African Americans killed in interactions with the cops. Based on my experience, most cops are good cops, it's just as much BS to stereotype a cop because of their profession as it is to stereotype someone because of their race, gender, sexual preferences or religion. It's an important but dangerous job that we're making less appealing which is foolishly short-sighted.
Indeed. But I’d like to think we can improve on training and have a little less militarism too.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:40 am
kalm wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:03 am


I agree completely on the political ramifications and I’m not rationalizing anything.

It’s similar to the wealth inequality argument. The poor just need to work harder and make better decisions. Buying a TV, car, or home you can’t afford is irrational. That doesn’t mean that at some point the serfs won’t rise up and think ‘hey...we want a bigger slice.’

Cops shouldn’t extra judiciously kill people and protestors should protest from home during a pandemic and never resort to violence and destruction.

You just don’t like it when I’m a centrist. :kisswink:
I don't think you and I are that far apart on the the wealth inequality argument but we could probably spend an entire afternoon debating the details. In a nutshell, one of the things that really annoys me about it is the reality that the poor in America are better off than the average person in most of the world. The focus should be on creating opportunities and raising the floor not shrinking the wealth gap. Shrinking the wealth gap is a socialist canard that I fear will lead to mediocrity and misery.

Cops shouldn't extra judiciously kill people and when they do, they should be charged and prosecuted. I would wager that the percentage of cops killed in interactions with the public is significantly higher than the percentage of African Americans killed in interactions with the cops. Based on my experience, most cops are good cops, it's just as much BS to stereotype a cop because of their profession as it is to stereotype someone because of their race, gender, sexual preferences or religion. It's an important but dangerous job that we're making less appealing which is foolishly short-sighted.
I can be a pretty good impartial moderator. I also promise to bring libations. :thumb:
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:03 am
UNI88 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:44 am


Pretty please isn't working for the anti-maskers and the alt-right either.

We need to be condemning this type of behavior not just saying it's bad but rationalizing it as understandable.

The really stupid thing is that it is helping Trump gain ground with moderates and working class whites. If Trump wins in November, the "protesters" will just need to look in the mirror if they want to understand why.
I agree completely on the political ramifications and I’m not rationalizing anything.

It’s similar to the wealth inequality argument. The poor just need to work harder and make better decisions. Buying a TV, car, or home you can’t afford is irrational. That doesn’t mean that at some point the serfs won’t rise up and think ‘hey...we want a bigger slice.’

Cops shouldn’t extra judiciously kill people and protestors should protest from home during a pandemic and never resort to violence and destruction.

You just don’t like it when I’m a centrist. :kisswink:
:suspicious: The guy had already knifed 4 people and came out the door charging the police with a knife. One cop was running from him when he another cop shot him.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:25 am
SDHornet wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:41 pm


Riots in the streets is now "dialogue"?!? :? :lol:
No. Politicians at every level of government is. This is how social change often goes. The violence and vandalism suck and any rational person is disappointed by it. But pretty please wasn’t fast enough.
Like not voting on Tim Scott's police reform bill back in June?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... otts-bill/

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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:40 am
kalm wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:03 am


I agree completely on the political ramifications and I’m not rationalizing anything.

It’s similar to the wealth inequality argument. The poor just need to work harder and make better decisions. Buying a TV, car, or home you can’t afford is irrational. That doesn’t mean that at some point the serfs won’t rise up and think ‘hey...we want a bigger slice.’

Cops shouldn’t extra judiciously kill people and protestors should protest from home during a pandemic and never resort to violence and destruction.

You just don’t like it when I’m a centrist. :kisswink:
I don't think you and I are that far apart on the the wealth inequality argument but we could probably spend an entire afternoon debating the details. In a nutshell, one of the things that really annoys me about it is the reality that the poor in America are better off than the average person in most of the world. The focus should be on creating opportunities and raising the floor not shrinking the wealth gap. Shrinking the wealth gap is a socialist canard that I fear will lead to mediocrity and misery.

Cops shouldn't extra judiciously kill people and when they do, they should be charged and prosecuted. I would wager that the percentage of cops killed in interactions with the public is significantly higher than the percentage of African Americans killed in interactions with the cops. Based on my experience, most cops are good cops, it's just as much BS to stereotype a cop because of their profession as it is to stereotype someone because of their race, gender, sexual preferences or religion. It's an important but dangerous job that we're making less appealing which is foolishly short-sighted.
Excellent post. Well said. :nod:

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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:54 pm
kalm wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:03 am


I agree completely on the political ramifications and I’m not rationalizing anything.

It’s similar to the wealth inequality argument. The poor just need to work harder and make better decisions. Buying a TV, car, or home you can’t afford is irrational. That doesn’t mean that at some point the serfs won’t rise up and think ‘hey...we want a bigger slice.’

Cops shouldn’t extra judiciously kill people and protestors should protest from home during a pandemic and never resort to violence and destruction.

You just don’t like it when I’m a centrist. :kisswink:
:suspicious: The guy had already knifed 4 people and came out the door charging the police with a knife. One cop was running from him when he another cop shot him.
We were speaking in general.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:22 pm
kalm wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:25 am


No. Politicians at every level of government is. This is how social change often goes. The violence and vandalism suck and any rational person is disappointed by it. But pretty please wasn’t fast enough.
Like not voting on Tim Scott's police reform bill back in June?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... otts-bill/
They care more about the politics (especially in an election year) than progress.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by GannonFan »

andy7171 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:35 am
89Hen wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:51 am


Downtown Lancaster has some remarkably sketchy parts. I was just there for a wedding of my daughter's BFF from college. They live not far from where this happened.
All of south central PA is sketchy as hell. I was shocked when I found out too.
Heck, most of PA is like that really. There's Philly, the Philly and Pittsburgh suburbs, and then the rest of the state is like the sketchy parts. It's why it's a swing state - just small bastions of either the inner city or coastal elite types and then a wide swath of fly-overish parts. Many parts are still like Tom Cruise's Ampipe from "All the Right Moves", just without the steel mills anymore.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:07 am
SDHornet wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:22 pm


Like not voting on Tim Scott's police reform bill back in June?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... otts-bill/
They care more about the politics (especially in an election year) than progress.
Agreed - but the problem is that what use to be just an election year or close to an election year thing is now an all the time thing. Focus is just on winning elections and getting or holding on to power. No real thought of what should be done with that power. I'm not a personal fan of AOC or her politics, but at least she has ideas and sees her time in government as being the time to implement them - winning the next election is an outcome of doing that, not the primary mission. Too many politicians have lost sight of that.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:11 am
kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:07 am


They care more about the politics (especially in an election year) than progress.
Agreed - but the problem is that what use to be just an election year or close to an election year thing is now an all the time thing. Focus is just on winning elections and getting or holding on to power. No real thought of what should be done with that power. I'm not a personal fan of AOC or her politics, but at least she has ideas and sees her time in government as being the time to implement them - winning the next election is an outcome of doing that, not the primary mission. Too many politicians have lost sight of that.
:nod:

And from personal experience that runs right through to local politics.

Tribalism and power.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:13 am
GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:11 am


Agreed - but the problem is that what use to be just an election year or close to an election year thing is now an all the time thing. Focus is just on winning elections and getting or holding on to power. No real thought of what should be done with that power. I'm not a personal fan of AOC or her politics, but at least she has ideas and sees her time in government as being the time to implement them - winning the next election is an outcome of doing that, not the primary mission. Too many politicians have lost sight of that.
:nod:

And from personal experience that runs right through to local politics.

Tribalism and power.
It can but it doesn't have to. From my personal experience local politics can and is done right when you have the folks in there that aren't power hungry. It does happen, and with the multitude of local governments there is a percentage that are doing it correctly. Not all, but at least some. The federal government seems not to be as lucky.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by 89Hen »

andy7171 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:35 am
89Hen wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:51 am


Downtown Lancaster has some remarkably sketchy parts. I was just there for a wedding of my daughter's BFF from college. They live not far from where this happened.
All of south central PA is sketchy as hell. I was shocked when I found out too.
They are all Ravens fans, so that shouldn't surprise you. :mrgreen:
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by 89Hen »

GannonFan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:07 am
Heck, most of PA is like that really. There's Philly, the Philly and Pittsburgh suburbs, and then the rest of the state is like the sketchy parts. It's why it's a swing state - just small bastions of either the inner city or coastal elite types and then a wide swath of fly-overish parts. Many parts are still like Tom Cruise's Ampipe from "All the Right Moves", just without the steel mills anymore.
It's interesting to see the typical vehicle come to the DE beaches:

Maryland:
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Virginia:
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New Jersey:
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New York:
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Pennsylvania:
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by GannonFan »

Lot of salt of the earth type people in PA. Kalmie would like it here.
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Re: Next Up: Lancaster PA

Post by 89Hen »

89Hen wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:46 am
It's interesting to see the typical vehicle come to the DE beaches:


Virginia:
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