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Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:32 am
by Col Hogan
First, a definition from the Cambridge Dictionary
fascism
noun [ U ] POLITICS (also Fascism)
US /ˈfæʃ.ɪ.zəm/ UK /ˈfæʃ.ɪ.zəm/
a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... sh/fascism
Now, the example:
Loudoun County is a Washington DC suburb in Northern VA (NOVA). The Loudoun County School Board is getting ready to vote on a new code of conduct.
According to a draft of a policy, “Any comments that are not in alignment with the school division’s commitment to action-oriented equity practices” will be subject to punishment.
The proposed change would cover all communication by Loudoun County Schools’ employees, on campus or off, by telephone, in person, or on social media,” according to a report from West Nova News.
In addition, any kind of speech perceived as “undermining the views, positions, goals, policies or public statements” of Superintendent Eric Williams or the school board will not be tolerated.
Employees will be directed to report anyone who does not follow the guidelines.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/10/06/ ... kifQ%3D%3D
Why the need for such a radical code of conduct that most likely violates the 1st Amendment rights of employees? The Loudoun County school board is implementing critical race theory. Now, they add to their document that they have no intention of violating any 1st Amendment rights, but go on to add a “but”...
... however, based upon an individualized inquiry, speech, including but not limited to via social media, on matters of public concern may be outweighed by the school division’s interest in the following.”
The following includes: “Achieving consistent application of the board’s and superintendent’s stated mission, goals, policies and directives, including protected class equity, racial equity, and the goal to root out systemic racism.”
Again, this does not just apply when staff are working in an official capacity at school, but whenever they say or do anything on campus or off.
So, ANYTHING said, even in the privacy of your home, that does not support the superintendent’s stated goals, and is reported, could cost you your job...
That’s facism, pure and simple...
Change my mind...
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:56 pm
by GannonFan
It's almost like they pulled it from the Alien and Sedition Acts. Maybe they got the wrong message from the John Adams miniseries on HBO awhile back? But yes, while the alt-right has all the makings of facism in terms of national pride, the ctrl-left is perhaps even more fascist with its demand for adherence to doctrine. Either way, political discourse in this country certainly has been stymied by both sides of the aisle.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:01 pm
by kalm
Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:32 am
First, a definition from the Cambridge Dictionary
fascism
noun [ U ] POLITICS (also Fascism)
US /ˈfæʃ.ɪ.zəm/ UK /ˈfæʃ.ɪ.zəm/
a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... sh/fascism
Now, the example:
Loudoun County is a Washington DC suburb in Northern VA (NOVA). The Loudoun County School Board is getting ready to vote on a new code of conduct.
According to a draft of a policy, “Any comments that are not in alignment with the school division’s commitment to action-oriented equity practices” will be subject to punishment.
The proposed change would cover all communication by Loudoun County Schools’ employees, on campus or off, by telephone, in person, or on social media,” according to a report from West Nova News.
In addition, any kind of speech perceived as “undermining the views, positions, goals, policies or public statements” of Superintendent Eric Williams or the school board will not be tolerated.
Employees will be directed to report anyone who does not follow the guidelines.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/10/06/ ... kifQ%3D%3D
Why the need for such a radical code of conduct that most likely violates the 1st Amendment rights of employees? The Loudoun County school board is implementing critical race theory. Now, they add to their document that they have no intention of violating any 1st Amendment rights, but go on to add a “but”...
... however, based upon an individualized inquiry, speech, including but not limited to via social media, on matters of public concern may be outweighed by the school division’s interest in the following.”
The following includes: “Achieving consistent application of the board’s and superintendent’s stated mission, goals, policies and directives, including protected class equity, racial equity, and the goal to root out systemic racism.”
Again, this does not just apply when staff are working in an official capacity at school, but whenever they say or do anything on campus or off.
So, ANYTHING said, even in the privacy of your home, that does not support the superintendent’s stated goals, and is reported, could cost you your job...
That’s facism, pure and simple...
Change my mind...
Small shrimp.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:33 pm
by JohnStOnge
I don't think the policy is a good idea but it's not a violation of the First Amendment. It's just rules you have to follow if you want to be an employee of that schools system. To me, if an employer should be able to set any condition it wants to. Nobody is being prohibited from saying what they want to say. They're just being told that they can't say certain things if they want to work for that employer.
And I've always been that way. It's a very conservative outlook. You don't have a "right" to have an employer employ you. It's a mutual agreed upon relationship where you give your service to the employer and the employer gives you compensation in exchange. Either you or the employer should be able to terminate the relationship for any reason.
If you don't like it, don't work for that employer.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:42 pm
by AZGrizFan
JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:33 pm
I don't think the policy is a good idea but it's not a violation of the First Amendment. It's just rules you have to follow if you want to be an employee of that schools system. To me, if an employer should be able to set any condition it wants to. Nobody is being prohibited from saying what they want to say. They're just being told that they can't say certain things if they want to work for that employer.
And I've always been that way. It's a very conservative outlook. You don't have a "right" to have an employer employ you. It's a mutual agreed upon relationship where you give your service to the employer and the employer gives you compensation in exchange. Either you or the employer should be able to terminate the relationship for any reason.
If you don't like it, don't work for that employer.
And apparently in DC you give yourself to your employer 24/7/365.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:08 pm
by JohnStOnge
AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:42 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:33 pm
I don't think the policy is a good idea but it's not a violation of the First Amendment. It's just rules you have to follow if you want to be an employee of that schools system. To me, if an employer should be able to set any condition it wants to. Nobody is being prohibited from saying what they want to say. They're just being told that they can't say certain things if they want to work for that employer.
And I've always been that way. It's a very conservative outlook. You don't have a "right" to have an employer employ you. It's a mutual agreed upon relationship where you give your service to the employer and the employer gives you compensation in exchange. Either you or the employer should be able to terminate the relationship for any reason.
If you don't like it, don't work for that employer.
And apparently in DC you give yourself to your employer 24/7/365.
In my opinion your employer has the right to say that if you want to work for it you can't get caught saying whatever it is ever. It's a condition of employment. If you don't like it, don't work for that employer. If the employer says you can't say certain things and work for it you have the option to resign. You can say the benefit of employment is not sufficient to accept the condition of employment.
A First Amendment issue is something like government saying you will be arrested if you say something. This is not a First Amendment issue.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:22 pm
by AZGrizFan
JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:08 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:42 pm
And apparently in DC you give yourself to your employer 24/7/365.
In my opinion your employer has the right to say that if you want to work for it you can't get caught saying whatever it is ever. It's a condition of employment. If you don't like it, don't work for that employer. If the employer says you can't say certain things and work for it you have the option to resign. You can say the benefit of employment is not sufficient to accept the condition of employment.
A First Amendment issue is something like government saying you will be arrested if you say something. This is not a First Amendment issue.
If you don’t see the problem with this and the slippery slope it invites, You really have lost your marbles.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:01 pm
by Col Hogan
JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:08 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:42 pm
And apparently in DC you give yourself to your employer 24/7/365.
In my opinion your employer has the right to say that if you want to work for it you can't get caught saying whatever it is ever. It's a condition of employment. If you don't like it, don't work for that employer. If the employer says you can't say certain things and work for it you have the option to resign. You can say the benefit of employment is not sufficient to accept the condition of employment.
A First Amendment issue is something like government saying you will be arrested if you say something. This is not a First Amendment issue.
A private employer...maybe...
But this is a government agency...
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:04 pm
by BDKJMU
You know its bad when even the liberal teacher’s union objects..
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:12 pm
by kalm
Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:01 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:08 pm
In my opinion your employer has the right to say that if you want to work for it you can't get caught saying whatever it is ever. It's a condition of employment. If you don't like it, don't work for that employer. If the employer says you can't say certain things and work for it you have the option to resign. You can say the benefit of employment is not sufficient to accept the condition of employment.
A First Amendment issue is something like government saying you will be arrested if you say something. This is not a First Amendment issue.
A private employer...maybe...
But this is a government agency...
That’s what elections are for.
Wait...that suggests democracy and we all know how dangerous democracy is...
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:18 pm
by BDKJMU
GD double post.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:25 pm
by UNI88
BDKJMU wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:04 pm
You know its bad when even the liberal teacher’s union objects..
They're protecting their members. Just like the police unions protect their members. The battle lines between the woke ctrl-left and organized labor are expanding and will continue to expand.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:28 pm
by AZGrizFan
kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:12 pm
Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:01 pm
A private employer...maybe...
But this is a government agency...
That’s what elections are for.
Wait...that suggests democracy and we all know how dangerous democracy is...
Sounds more like a dictatorship.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:42 pm
by Pwns
GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:56 pm
It's almost like they pulled it from the Alien and Sedition Acts. Maybe they got the wrong message from the John Adams miniseries on HBO awhile back? But yes, while the alt-right has all the makings of facism in terms of national pride, the ctrl-left is perhaps even more fascist with its demand for adherence to doctrine. Either way, political discourse in this country certainly has been stymied by both sides of the aisle.
All true, but one key difference between the two needs to be pointed out...one has entrenched power in most of the mainstream media, big tech, and higher ed. The other side has a clownish president who is more about himself than any ideology. The woke are not "the resistance", they are the Empire.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:16 pm
by JohnStOnge
AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:22 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:08 pm
In my opinion your employer has the right to say that if you want to work for it you can't get caught saying whatever it is ever. It's a condition of employment. If you don't like it, don't work for that employer. If the employer says you can't say certain things and work for it you have the option to resign. You can say the benefit of employment is not sufficient to accept the condition of employment.
A First Amendment issue is something like government saying you will be arrested if you say something. This is not a First Amendment issue.
If you don’t see the problem with this and the slippery slope it invites, You really have lost your marbles.
I didn't say I like it. But it happens all the time. People express an opinion on Facebook or something like that and they get fired. I wish the culture wasn't like that.
But I think an employee/employer relationship is a transactional relationship. It's an exchange. Either side of the relationship should be able to terminate it for any reason they want.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:20 pm
by JohnStOnge
Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:01 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:08 pm
In my opinion your employer has the right to say that if you want to work for it you can't get caught saying whatever it is ever. It's a condition of employment. If you don't like it, don't work for that employer. If the employer says you can't say certain things and work for it you have the option to resign. You can say the benefit of employment is not sufficient to accept the condition of employment.
A First Amendment issue is something like government saying you will be arrested if you say something. This is not a First Amendment issue.
A private employer...maybe...
But this is a government agency...
That doesn't change anything in my view. It's still and employee/employer relationship. The employer should be able to set the conditions for employment then if the employee doesn't like them they are free to disassociate.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:51 am
by Ibanez
Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:32 am
First, a definition from the Cambridge Dictionary
fascism
noun [ U ] POLITICS (also Fascism)
US /ˈfæʃ.ɪ.zəm/ UK /ˈfæʃ.ɪ.zəm/
a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... sh/fascism
Now, the example:
Loudoun County is a Washington DC suburb in Northern VA (NOVA). The Loudoun County School Board is getting ready to vote on a new code of conduct.
According to a draft of a policy, “Any comments that are not in alignment with the school division’s commitment to action-oriented equity practices” will be subject to punishment.
The proposed change would cover all communication by Loudoun County Schools’ employees, on campus or off, by telephone, in person, or on social media,” according to a report from West Nova News.
In addition, any kind of speech perceived as “undermining the views, positions, goals, policies or public statements” of Superintendent Eric Williams or the school board will not be tolerated.
Employees will be directed to report anyone who does not follow the guidelines.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/10/06/ ... kifQ%3D%3D
Why the need for such a radical code of conduct that most likely violates the 1st Amendment rights of employees? The Loudoun County school board is implementing critical race theory. Now, they add to their document that they have no intention of violating any 1st Amendment rights, but go on to add a “but”...
... however, based upon an individualized inquiry, speech, including but not limited to via social media, on matters of public concern may be outweighed by the school division’s interest in the following.”
The following includes: “Achieving consistent application of the board’s and superintendent’s stated mission, goals, policies and directives, including protected class equity, racial equity, and the goal to root out systemic racism.”
Again, this does not just apply when staff are working in an official capacity at school, but whenever they say or do anything on campus or off.
So, ANYTHING said, even in the privacy of your home, that does not support the superintendent’s stated goals, and is reported, could cost you your job...
That’s facism, pure and simple...
Change my mind...
Sounds like the GOP right now. Dissent will not be tolerated!
But seriously, folks. I agree with GF - it reads like Sedition and we all know how well that worked out. Freedom of Speech includes things you don't like. If you can't take criticism, then you don't belong in a public position.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:37 pm
by AZGrizFan
Ibanez wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:51 am
Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:32 am
First, a definition from the Cambridge Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... sh/fascism
Now, the example:
Loudoun County is a Washington DC suburb in Northern VA (NOVA). The Loudoun County School Board is getting ready to vote on a new code of conduct.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/10/06/ ... kifQ%3D%3D
Why the need for such a radical code of conduct that most likely violates the 1st Amendment rights of employees? The Loudoun County school board is implementing critical race theory. Now, they add to their document that they have no intention of violating any 1st Amendment rights, but go on to add a “but”...
So, ANYTHING said, even in the privacy of your home, that does not support the superintendent’s stated goals, and is reported, could cost you your job...
That’s facism, pure and simple...
Change my mind...
Sounds like the GOP right now. Dissent will not be tolerated!
But seriously, folks. I agree with GF - it reads like Sedition and we all know how well that worked out. Freedom of Speech includes things you don't like. If you can't take criticism, then you don't belong in a public position.
There’s only one party that doesn’t allow dissent and it’s not the GOP. Not sure where you’re getting that impression. Unless that
is mean to imply sarcasm.....
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:42 pm
by UNI88
AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:37 pm
Ibanez wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:51 am
Sounds like the GOP right now. Dissent will not be tolerated!
But seriously, folks. I agree with GF - it reads like Sedition and we all know how well that worked out. Freedom of Speech includes things you don't like. If you can't take criticism, then you don't belong in a public position.
There’s only one party that doesn’t allow dissent and it’s not the GOP. Not sure where you’re getting that impression. Unless that
is mean to imply sarcasm.....
The term RINO implies that dissent is frowned upon or worse. What do Uumpa Truumpas think of Romney or Justin Amash?
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:03 pm
by Col Hogan
Ibanez wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:51 am
Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:32 am
First, a definition from the Cambridge Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... sh/fascism
Now, the example:
Loudoun County is a Washington DC suburb in Northern VA (NOVA). The Loudoun County School Board is getting ready to vote on a new code of conduct.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/10/06/ ... kifQ%3D%3D
Why the need for such a radical code of conduct that most likely violates the 1st Amendment rights of employees? The Loudoun County school board is implementing critical race theory. Now, they add to their document that they have no intention of violating any 1st Amendment rights, but go on to add a “but”...
So, ANYTHING said, even in the privacy of your home, that does not support the superintendent’s stated goals, and is reported, could cost you your job...
That’s facism, pure and simple...
Change my mind...
Sounds like the GOP right now. Dissent will not be tolerated!
But seriously, folks. I agree with GF - it reads like Sedition and we all know how well that worked out. Freedom of Speech includes things you don't like. If you can't take criticism, then you don't belong in a public position.
Yea, the Democrats are a big tent, allowing dissent from their positions...
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... nsure-vot/
https://wpln.org/post/tennessee-democra ... ry-ballot/
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:52 pm
by Ibanez
AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:37 pm
Ibanez wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:51 am
Sounds like the GOP right now. Dissent will not be tolerated!
But seriously, folks. I agree with GF - it reads like Sedition and we all know how well that worked out. Freedom of Speech includes things you don't like. If you can't take criticism, then you don't belong in a public position.
There’s only one party that doesn’t allow dissent and it’s not the GOP. Not sure where you’re getting that impression. Unless that
is mean to imply sarcasm.....
Um...take a look around Tom. Any Republican that speaks up against Trump is a traitor. Anyone that has the gall to have a difference of opinion gets called out as a traitor, a loser, blah blah blah. Both sides are guilty, pal. The fact that you don't see that is quite telling.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:04 pm
by Ibanez
Lisa Murkowski spoke out and Trump comes out hours later that he'll campaign against her. Same thing happened with Liz Cheney. And John McCain. And Jeff Flake. And Mitt Romney. Republicans don't like dissent anymore than Democrats.
And every time that's brought up, you all say, " They weren't real Republicans, anyway."
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:12 pm
by Col Hogan
Ibanez wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:04 pm
Lisa Murkowski spoke out and Trump comes out hours later that he'll campaign against her. Same thing happened with Liz Cheney. And John McCain. And Jeff Flake. And Mitt Romney. Republicans don't like dissent anymore than Democrats.
And every time that's brought up, you all say, " They weren't real Republicans, anyway."
Who’s y’all, Kemp Sahbee???
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:15 pm
by Ibanez
Col Hogan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:12 pm
Ibanez wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:04 pm
Lisa Murkowski spoke out and Trump comes out hours later that he'll campaign against her. Same thing happened with Liz Cheney. And John McCain. And Jeff Flake. And Mitt Romney. Republicans don't like dissent anymore than Democrats.
And every time that's brought up, you all say, " They weren't real Republicans, anyway."
Who’s y’all, Kemp Sahbee???
Republicans.
But it's been all over this board for 4 years. BDK, AG1 have said it. I've seen it on TV. I hear it from my MAGA brothers and high school friends.
Re: Liberal Facism
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:25 pm
by AZGrizFan
UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:42 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:37 pm
There’s only one party that doesn’t allow dissent and it’s not the GOP. Not sure where you’re getting that impression. Unless that
is mean to imply sarcasm.....
The term RINO implies that dissent is frowned upon or worse. What do Uumpa Truumpas think of Romney or Justin Amash?
Couldn’t tell you. I don’t like any of ‘em.