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So, given that Trump is living down to his lowest and actually incited an insurrection that briefly sacked the US Capitol building and targetted the entirety of the legislative branch, what do we do with him for the remaining 13 or so days? Options on the table are:

- 25th ammendment
- Impeachment
- Leave him there

I'm inclined to go with the last one. I think you can make a good argument for the 25th, but I also think with the limited timeframe left, and with the limited amount that Trump could actually do (no one in the military or Homeland security would plausibly let him declare martial law or randomly start a military action somewhere in the world), there isn't the danger, especially over a long term, that would require the 25th to be used. And I think it's not worth it long term to break the seal on the 25th and start getting used to using it. That's where impeachment could be brought in - heck, we do that all the time now, it's getting less and less rare. I don't really like that option either, impeachments tend to bring too much focus to just the House and I don't think it serves the Dems well to enter into the Biden administration with a slim majority and with the fanning of the flames that an impeachment would be, even one that's basically done in a couple of days. And besides, the Senate wouldn't be able to move fast enough to act on it anyway.

That's why I go with the last one. I think Trump wants to be removed from office or have some other historical thing done at the end of his Presidency. He's such a destructive narcissist that he'd take a 25th ammendment removal or a second impeachment as a badge of honor and sell it that way to his degenerate, cultish followers. It'd be like political martyrdom. I say let him unceremoniously spend the next 13 days stewing in the White House, wondering when his Twitter feed will be turned back on, and make him just like any other President (i.e. not special) whose term just comes to an end at noon on Jan 20th. No fanfare, no histrionics, just turning our backs on him and moving on. I think that might piss him off more.

#3. 25th amendment or impeachment with less than 2 weeks to go would just be dumping gas on a fire.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:35 am #3. 25th amendment or impeachment with less than 2 weeks to go would just be dumping gas on a fire.

This. Don't think there is time for formal impeachment so that isn't really an option. 25th would just enrage more people. Run out the clock and move on come Jan 20th.

The SM bans didn't help either.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:35 am #3. 25th amendment or impeachment with less than 2 weeks to go would just be dumping gas on a fire.

I tend to agree. Trump has already abdicated his role. Biden, like him or not, has stepped up to fill the leadership vacuum. Who was trying to calm everyone down yesterday? Biden. Trump records a message and then gives his tacit support to all the insurrectionists. With the GOP now against him, for the most part, and his own government resigning, he's more powerless today than he was when he woke up yesterday morning.

The 25th could still take some time and an impeachment isn't going to happen. Couldn't Trump fight against the 25th being executed and delay it?


We watched POTUS incite an insurrection against his own government. He violated his oath and that was just a chilly Wednesday morning! Maybe it's time to send a message that regardless of how much time is left, that's inexcusable and we're kicking you out. Drive him out in shame.


Question - if he resigns or removed, does a President still get SS protection and the pension?

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:18 pm

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:35 am #3. 25th amendment or impeachment with less than 2 weeks to go would just be dumping gas on a fire.

I tend to agree. Trump has already abdicated his role. Biden, like him or not, has stepped up to fill the leadership vacuum. Who was trying to calm everyone down yesterday? Biden. Trump records a message and then gives his tacit support to all the insurrectionists. With the GOP now against him, for the most part, and his own government resigning, he's more powerless today than he was when he woke up yesterday morning.

The 25th could still take some time and an impeachment isn't going to happen. Couldn't Trump fight against the 25th being executed and delay it?


We watched POTUS incite an insurrection against his own government. He violated his oath and that was just a chilly Wednesday morning! Maybe it's time to send a message that regardless of how much time is left, that's inexcusable and we're kicking you out. Drive him out in shame.


Question - if he resigns or removed, does a President still get SS protection and the pension?

Didn't think about the Cabinet resignation angle. That would essentially remove his power if no one is there to act on his directives, right? I don't think any impeachment/25th actions against him helps this situation we all find ourselves in at all.

25th amendment would be the best solution, but I don't see it happening.

SDHornet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:33 pm

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:18 pm

I tend to agree. Trump has already abdicated his role. Biden, like him or not, has stepped up to fill the leadership vacuum. Who was trying to calm everyone down yesterday? Biden. Trump records a message and then gives his tacit support to all the insurrectionists. With the GOP now against him, for the most part, and his own government resigning, he's more powerless today than he was when he woke up yesterday morning.

The 25th could still take some time and an impeachment isn't going to happen. Couldn't Trump fight against the 25th being executed and delay it?


We watched POTUS incite an insurrection against his own government. He violated his oath and that was just a chilly Wednesday morning! Maybe it's time to send a message that regardless of how much time is left, that's inexcusable and we're kicking you out. Drive him out in shame.


Question - if he resigns or removed, does a President still get SS protection and the pension?

Didn't think about the Cabinet resignation angle. That would essentially remove his power if no one is there to act on his directives, right? I don't think any impeachment/25th actions against him helps this situation we all find ourselves in at all.

I'm pretty sure any cabinet seat could be filled with a recess appointment.

He's been filling them with 'Acting' appointments and avoiding Senate confirmation anyway.

I hope the left tries the 25th. Do it!

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:37 pm

SDHornet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:33 pm

Didn't think about the Cabinet resignation angle. That would essentially remove his power if no one is there to act on his directives, right? I don't think any impeachment/25th actions against him helps this situation we all find ourselves in at all.

I'm pretty sure any cabinet seat could be filled with a recess appointment.

Doesn't matter. How many cabinet seats have been left vacant for months? He's not going to suddenly nominate someone to take of for Chao (who has resigned her cabinet position). How many are still vacant?

Running a country wasn't something Trump could ever do nor was good at it. Where was he yesterday? Where was he when the Russians were hacking our country? He doesn't want to the job - he wants the fame, perks and glory.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:38 pm I hope the left tries the 25th. Do it!

Pay attention, it's the GOP that's also calling for it. Many more than just Democrats. Trump has fucked up and he has nobody to blame but himself.

SDHornet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:33 pm

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:18 pm

I tend to agree. Trump has already abdicated his role. Biden, like him or not, has stepped up to fill the leadership vacuum. Who was trying to calm everyone down yesterday? Biden. Trump records a message and then gives his tacit support to all the insurrectionists. With the GOP now against him, for the most part, and his own government resigning, he's more powerless today than he was when he woke up yesterday morning.

The 25th could still take some time and an impeachment isn't going to happen. Couldn't Trump fight against the 25th being executed and delay it?


We watched POTUS incite an insurrection against his own government. He violated his oath and that was just a chilly Wednesday morning! Maybe it's time to send a message that regardless of how much time is left, that's inexcusable and we're kicking you out. Drive him out in shame.


Question - if he resigns or removed, does a President still get SS protection and the pension?

Didn't think about the Cabinet resignation angle. That would essentially remove his power if no one is there to act on his directives, right? I don't think any impeachment/25th actions against him helps this situation we all find ourselves in at all.

I think so. I don't think any of the Joint Chiefs would follow any order he gave (or at least they'd slow walk it).


Trump is more impotent and ineffectual than before. A disastrous end. I think Ganny is 10000% spot on correct.

Hear me out - what's more likely to happen: Trump Resign/Removed or Senators Cruz, Hawley and others expelled? There's plenty of talk about Cruz and Hawley sharing the blame for yesterday.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:38 pm I hope the left tries the 25th. Do it!

Thanks Trip Jr. Good to see you're also willing to burn down the country because you didn't get your way. That's some real patriotism!

Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:35 pm 25th amendment would be the best solution, but I don't see it happening.

Why would it be the best solution?

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:40 pm

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:37 pm
I'm pretty sure any cabinet seat could be filled with a recess appointment.

Doesn't matter. How many cabinet seats have been left vacant for months? He's not going to suddenly nominate someone to take of for Chao (who has resigned her cabinet position). How many are still vacant?

Running a country wasn't something Trump could ever do nor was good at it. Where was he yesterday? Where was OBAMA when the Russians were hacking our country? He doesn't want to the job - he wants the fame, perks and glory.

You weren't paying attention.



Calling for peace, law and order, and telling people to go home.

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:47 pm Hear me out - what's more likely to happen: Trump Resign/Removed or Senators Cruz, Hawley and others expelled? There's plenty of talk about Cruz and Hawley sharing the blame for yesterday.

I heard that too, but the optics of that irony wouldn't be a good thing for the Dems - let's punish GOP members who voted for objections to the certifications, i.e. the votes of the people, by throwing out these GOP members, i.e. overturn the votes of the people who sent Cruz et al there in the first place. If you really want to punish those guys (and gals) then censure is likely the way to go. It won't get anywhere, though, due to the razor thin margins in both chambers. Not worth it for the Dems - the crazy left will blame them for not making it happen even if they tried and the crazy right will say "see, they're stealing the election again". We need more dignity, more honor, not more retribution.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:34 pm

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:47 pm Hear me out - what's more likely to happen: Trump Resign/Removed or Senators Cruz, Hawley and others expelled? There's plenty of talk about Cruz and Hawley sharing the blame for yesterday.

I heard that too, but the optics of that irony wouldn't be a good thing for the Dems - let's punish GOP members who voted for objections to the certifications, i.e. the votes of the people, by throwing out these GOP members, i.e. overturn the votes of the people who sent Cruz et al there in the first place. If you really want to punish those guys (and gals) then censure is likely the way to go. It won't get anywhere, though, due to the razor thin margins in both chambers. Not worth it for the Dems - the crazy left will blame them for not making it happen even if they tried and the crazy right will say "see, they're stealing the election again". We need more dignity, more honor, not more retribution.

Should we punish Trump and his supporters like they did Germany after WWI or should we offer them a hand up like they did Germany after WWII? Which approach proved more successful?

Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:38 pm He's been filling them with 'Acting' appointments and avoiding Senate confirmation anyway.

I think there are only 3 of the 15 "principal officers" from the 25th standpoint who are listed as "acting" holders of those positions - Miller for Defense, Rosen for Atty General, and Wolf for Homeland. And now Chao with her resignation effective on the 11th. Everyone else has been there for awhile now and are confirmed. At least 8 of those, along with Pence, would be needed to remove. And then even if they decide to do so, if Trump objects then ultimately it would 2/3 of each chamber (House and Senate) to remove him. That's 290 in the House (assume every seat is filled, not sure they are) and 67 in the Senate (not sure how they work that with the two new ones as they are seated yet). Even if the cabinet goes along with it, I'm not sure the votes are there in Congress.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:40 pm
Doesn't matter. How many cabinet seats have been left vacant for months? He's not going to suddenly nominate someone to take of for Chao (who has resigned her cabinet position). How many are still vacant?

Running a country wasn't something Trump could ever do nor was good at it. Where was he yesterday? Where was OBAMA when the Russians were hacking our country? He doesn't want to the job - he wants the fame, perks and glory.

You weren't paying attention.



Calling for peace, law and order, and telling people to go home.

I saw that...after the chaos had begun...AFTER Biden told him to step up. I watched his recording. He lies about the election, tells them to go home (after the fact) tells them they're all very special like the snowflake fucks they are. What a leader. He was too little and too late. he should've never instigated this bullshit to begin with and when he spoke yesterday morning, he should've made it clear that he would not accept any violence or law breaking.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:50 pm

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:38 pm I hope the left tries the 25th. Do it!

Thanks Trip Jr. Good to see you're also willing to burn down the country because you didn't get your way. That's some real patriotism!

BDK isn't a patriot.

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:56 pm

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm
You weren't paying attention.



Calling for peace, law and order, and telling people to go home.

I saw that...after the chaos had begun...AFTER Biden told him to step up. I watched his recording. He lies about the election, tells them to go home (after the fact) tells them they're all very special like the snowflake fucks they are. What a leader. He was too little and too late. he should've never instigated this bullshit to begin with and when he spoke yesterday morning, he should've made it clear that he would not accept any violence or law breaking.

I'm confused ... is Trump being two-faced, speaking with a forked tongue or both?

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:48 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:38 pm He's been filling them with 'Acting' appointments and avoiding Senate confirmation anyway.

I think there are only 3 of the 15 "principal officers" from the 25th standpoint who are listed as "acting" holders of those positions - Miller for Defense, Rosen for Atty General, and Wolf for Homeland. And now Chao with her resignation effective on the 11th. Everyone else has been there for awhile now and are confirmed. At least 8 of those, along with Pence, would be needed to remove. And then even if they decide to do so, if Trump objects then ultimately it would 2/3 of each chamber (House and Senate) to remove him. That's 290 in the House (assume every seat is filled, not sure they are) and 67 in the Senate (not sure how they work that with the two new ones as they are seated yet). Even if the cabinet goes along with it, I'm not sure the votes are there in Congress.

And how long would this take? Makes no sense. Everyone is jumping ship, just run out the clock.

25th route wouldn't have to take much time at all. That's why it's the best, imo. Could be done before sundown.

And, it wouldn't have to go to Congress.

1. Pence and a majority of cabinet vote that Trump is incapable of carrying out his duties.

2. Pence is Acting President.

3. Trump says he is fit. Can become President again in four days unless Pence and the cabinet vote again. Pence and the cabinet vote again. Pence remains Acting President. Repeat.

4. After 21 days it has to have Congressional approval. Obviously that doesn't apply here because Trump lost a fair and free election and Biden takes over on Jan 20th.

Constitution wrote:Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

Exile Trumpoleon to the Island of Elba