The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by 89Hen »

https://www.newsweek.com/macron-france- ... ry-1634706
One of France's leading magazines, Le Spectacle Du Monde, ran a cover story titled "The Suicide of America." The magazine blamed America's retreat from Afghanistan on "a woke dictatorship" and questioned whether the American "empire was collapsing."

In the same issue, an article faulted U.S. universities as islands of extremism, where even students' Halloween costumes are policed, citing Yale University as a place where "offensive" costume-wearers were punished.
:lol:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by CID1990 »

89Hen wrote:https://www.newsweek.com/macron-france- ... ry-1634706
One of France's leading magazines, Le Spectacle Du Monde, ran a cover story titled "The Suicide of America." The magazine blamed America's retreat from Afghanistan on "a woke dictatorship" and questioned whether the American "empire was collapsing."

In the same issue, an article faulted U.S. universities as islands of extremism, where even students' Halloween costumes are policed, citing Yale University as a place where "offensive" costume-wearers were punished.
:lol:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by 93henfan »

Yep. After four years of Trumpism v the Lincoln Project, now we get to watch Blue Dog v Progressivism.

Me, every time I see Manchin on a Sunday morning show or the evening news:

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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by SDHornet »

93henfan wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:36 am Yep. After four years of Trumpism v the Lincoln Project, now we get to watch Blue Dog v Progressivism.

Me, every time I see Manchin on a Sunday morning show or the evening news:

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They've resulted to harassing Sinema in the bathroom now. This shit is entertaining.

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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

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Re: The Official

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:45 pm
CID1990 wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:42 pm
The entire idea of going electric is completely an urban construct

Where are the electric tractors? Combines?

Food production is a strategic industry and we are not even thinking about it.

This country needs to be prepared to go back to 1845 and a small portion is, but not enough.


Treep and the rest of the Gen Y retards will die at the hands of BLM terrorists when the lights go out, and the only people left after the starvation event will be us rednecks out in the country who know how to grow shit Paleo-style

I’m prepared, and I’ve already given my closest trusted compatriots the grid coordinates. And probably China will hit us from above with missiles and drones copied from us with the help of the Clinton admin

But we will be free to the end


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I’d be curious to see WB’s take on this. I’m guessing there are already some electric options for AG. There already is for golf and turf. I also know someone is coming out with an electric outboard for boats…. So I’m good. :notworthy:
Is your fishing/green thumb good enough to feed your family for a winter or day to day basis? And how are you going to charge your outboard when the grid is crashing on a daily basis?

And CID left off the CE Industry (Construction Equipment) which is just as big as the AG (Agriculture) industry.

CAT has diesel electric "hybrids" on their large mining equipment for years. Their dozer line is a good fit for it as a dozer needs max torque at all speeds depending on the jobsites (haul trucks are another item). But that is on large mining equipment that a $100k here and there is pretty much peanuts. (nice explanation below)

(https://www.equipmentworld.com/equipmen ... -explained)

CNH, Volovo, Bobcat, JD, and CAT all have various fully electric compact construction equipment or prototype tractors they have shown off at the various farm shows. But there is several very big problems with them. Cost and Power Density. Construction equipment has as an advantage over AG equipment in that one can use the downward motion of many tasks (excavator for example) to capture some of the energy in doing the opposite motion. AG equipment has none of that advantage as they are pure mobile power units (very high power density usage cases). One other bit of background information is that equipment buyers expect the equipment to run a full 10 hour day at working conditions.

Compact construction equipment (defined mostly as equipment less than 10k #'s) has the most work done from a innovation standpoint, and the current battery tech can "barely" support their usage cases. Heat rejection is a very large problem and so is run time. Even with hot swapping (switching entire batteries out for new ones), run time is mostly around 8 hours (less than the 10 that is the industry norm). Power density is a large issue in the way both AG and CE machines run, they use engines that are doing much more work than a vehicle (many kw's of energy. Ex: STX 550 Quadtrac (common sized 4wd AG tractor) has a engine rated at 324kW). A typical construction site or farming operation will probably use as much power as a several neighborhoods in a city or a small rural town (I haven't crunched the numbers but I think it is a good SWAG). And that is just the theoretical power consumption, never mind that for the larger machines, your machine would need to tow a battery pack the size of the machine or be hooked to grid power just be able to run of which neither are practical nor possible with how these machines function.

The cost is also another factor and it is entirely due to the battery costs. Those pieces of equipment on the CE side (there is none available for purchase or rent on the AG side to my knowledge) are about double the cost of its corresponding ICE counterpart. When your average skidsteer (60hp) costs about $60k, and the same size electric counterpart that with out a second batter will only last 6-7 hours (with a 1 hour lunch charge) is at least $120k, it is no small investment for a company to purchase. Too my knowledge only a few models of under 75ph skidsteers or excavators have hit the market.

The people that are purchasing them are people bidding on indoor demo jobs where noise is a factor, Amazon/Facebook/etc whose bid process requires an offset of carbon credits (in some instances contractors have told me the machines do not even have to be working, they just want them parked on the site so they can use an ICE equipment to actually do the job) and the extra cost of the job is passed on to the consumers. Also some cites in the EU have banned ICE equipment in certain sectors of the city and it is either equipment that has hot swapping capabilities or a shovel. Right now it is an extremely niche market.

To get away (outside of a niche market) from ICE equipment, power density storage has to increase and lithium ion in any form now or on the near horizon is not going to do it. A completely different type of storage media is going to be needed (capacitors, etc.). But that also means the generation capacity will have to MASSIVELY increase and so will the electrical grid capacity. We aren't even within spitting distance right now. Cost also has to be comparable to a traditionally powered machine.

All the above also applies to over the highway trucking. There are a few companies that have claimed they can do it, but I will believe it when I see it.

California is at the bleeding edge of mandating electric powered equipment and in killing their power generation capabilities. CARB is looking at mandating battery power for all garden equipment sized (about 25-30hp and under) by 2030. This can be done, but you will pay double (or more) for a mower, rest of the garden line up (trimmers, blowers, etc) about 15-25% more. They have floated the same for CE and AG equipment but so far CARB is waiting to see right now (but my bet is within 2-3 years they will try it). As for charging, that aspect is up in the air for now.

Personally I can't wait too see what happens when CARB runs afoul of the laws of physics and it doesn't conform to their utopian ideals. A coworker was at a CARB meeting, before COVID, and it was almost comical the lack of understanding and amount of delusion that was shown by the regulators. One regulator stated, in the meeting, that business are just hiding the tech to implement their demands due to them not wanting to change and because they are greedy for profits. And this is a meeting between industry and the state, and this individual said it right in front of everybody. As a business, what are you to do, when nothing you say or show is taken into account and it basically delves into do as we say or don't do business here.

BTW: If I had spare money, I would be buying land on the Nevada/California border as equipment and car dealerships will be moving there as in the future you will not be able to purchase "banned" equipment in the state, but there is nothing stopping you from bringing it into the state to do the work (at least for now). And CID said it right in my highlighted portion of his post.
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Re: The Official

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:18 pm
kalm wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:45 pm

I’d be curious to see WB’s take on this. I’m guessing there are already some electric options for AG. There already is for golf and turf. I also know someone is coming out with an electric outboard for boats…. So I’m good. :notworthy:
Is your fishing/green thumb good enough to feed your family for a winter or day to day basis? And how are you going to charge your outboard when the grid is crashing on a daily basis?

And CID left off the CE Industry (Construction Equipment) which is just as big as the AG (Agriculture) industry.

CAT has diesel electric "hybrids" on their large mining equipment for years. Their dozer line is a good fit for it as a dozer needs max torque at all speeds depending on the jobsites (haul trucks are another item). But that is on large mining equipment that a $100k here and there is pretty much peanuts. (nice explanation below)

(https://www.equipmentworld.com/equipmen ... -explained)

CNH, Volovo, Bobcat, JD, and CAT all have various fully electric compact construction equipment or prototype tractors they have shown off at the various farm shows. But there is several very big problems with them. Cost and Power Density. Construction equipment has as an advantage over AG equipment in that one can use the downward motion of many tasks (excavator for example) to capture some of the energy in doing the opposite motion. AG equipment has none of that advantage as they are pure mobile power units (very high power density usage cases). One other bit of background information is that equipment buyers expect the equipment to run a full 10 hour day at working conditions.

Compact construction equipment (defined mostly as equipment less than 10k #'s) has the most work done from a innovation standpoint, and the current battery tech can "barely" support their usage cases. Heat rejection is a very large problem and so is run time. Even with hot swapping (switching entire batteries out for new ones), run time is mostly around 8 hours (less than the 10 that is the industry norm). Power density is a large issue in the way both AG and CE machines run, they use engines that are doing much more work than a vehicle (many kw's of energy. Ex: STX 550 Quadtrac (common sized 4wd AG tractor) has a engine rated at 324kW). A typical construction site or farming operation will probably use as much power as a several neighborhoods in a city or a small rural town (I haven't crunched the numbers but I think it is a good SWAG). And that is just the theoretical power consumption, never mind that for the larger machines, your machine would need to tow a battery pack the size of the machine or be hooked to grid power just be able to run of which neither are practical nor possible with how these machines function.

The cost is also another factor and it is entirely due to the battery costs. Those pieces of equipment on the CE side (there is none available for purchase or rent on the AG side to my knowledge) are about double the cost of its corresponding ICE counterpart. When your average skidsteer (60hp) costs about $60k, and the same size electric counterpart that with out a second batter will only last 6-7 hours (with a 1 hour lunch charge) is at least $120k, it is no small investment for a company to purchase. Too my knowledge only a few models of under 75ph skidsteers or excavators have hit the market.

The people that are purchasing them are people bidding on indoor demo jobs where noise is a factor, Amazon/Facebook/etc whose bid process requires an offset of carbon credits (in some instances contractors have told me the machines do not even have to be working, they just want them parked on the site so they can use an ICE equipment to actually do the job) and the extra cost of the job is passed on to the consumers. Also some cites in the EU have banned ICE equipment in certain sectors of the city and it is either equipment that has hot swapping capabilities or a shovel. Right now it is an extremely niche market.

To get away (outside of a niche market) from ICE equipment, power density storage has to increase and lithium ion in any form now or on the near horizon is not going to do it. A completely different type of storage media is going to be needed (capacitors, etc.). But that also means the generation capacity will have to MASSIVELY increase and so will the electrical grid capacity. We aren't even within spitting distance right now. Cost also has to be comparable to a traditionally powered machine.

All the above also applies to over the highway trucking. There are a few companies that have claimed they can do it, but I will believe it when I see it.

California is at the bleeding edge of mandating electric powered equipment and in killing their power generation capabilities. CARB is looking at mandating battery power for all garden equipment sized (about 25-30hp and under) by 2030. This can be done, but you will pay double (or more) for a mower, rest of the garden line up (trimmers, blowers, etc) about 15-25% more. They have floated the same for CE and AG equipment but so far CARB is waiting to see right now (but my bet is within 2-3 years they will try it). As for charging, that aspect is up in the air for now.

Personally I can't wait too see what happens when CARB runs afoul of the laws of physics and it doesn't conform to their utopian ideals. A coworker was at a CARB meeting, before COVID, and it was almost comical the lack of understanding and amount of delusion that was shown by the regulators. One regulator stated, in the meeting, that business are just hiding the tech to implement their demands due to them not wanting to change and because they are greedy for profits. And this is a meeting between industry and the state, and this individual said it right in front of everybody. As a business, what are you to do, when nothing you say or show is taken into account and it basically delves into do as we say or don't do business here.

BTW: If I had spare money, I would be buying land on the Nevada/California border as equipment and car dealerships will be moving there as in the future you will not be able to purchase "banned" equipment in the state, but there is nothing stopping you from bringing it into the state to do the work (at least for now). And CID said it right in my highlighted portion of his post.
Good info, and thanks WB!

You mentioned garden equipment. The Ego and Ryobi stuff I’ve bought is ballpark to gas right now. What will drive the costs up?
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Re: The Official

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:31 am
Good info, and thanks WB!

You mentioned garden equipment. The Ego and Ryobi stuff I’ve bought is ballpark to gas right now. What will drive the costs up?
Material costs are going up. Also I was referencing commercial grade and not the home consumer brands. Outside of a Harbor Freight tool here and there, I go full commercial grade in everything as I do my own repairs (commercial grade is made to be fixed).

Plus not being able to use slave labor in the case of Ego (Chinese company).
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Re: The Official

Post by Ibanez »

Winterborn wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:16 am
kalm wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:31 am
Good info, and thanks WB!

You mentioned garden equipment. The Ego and Ryobi stuff I’ve bought is ballpark to gas right now. What will drive the costs up?
Material costs are going up. Also I was referencing commercial grade and not the home consumer brands. Outside of a Harbor Freight tool here and there, I go full commercial grade in everything as I do my own repairs (commercial grade is made to be fixed).

Plus not being able to use slave labor in the case of Ego (Chinese company).
I laugh when I see advertisements for " military-grade." Most people don't realize that means the cheapest product to get the job done. :lol:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

Sept jobs report 500k new hires expected, only 194k..way to go Biden..er I mean whoever is pulling Biden’s strings..
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

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..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:53 am Sept jobs report 500k new hires expected, only 194k..way to go Biden..er I mean whoever is pulling Biden’s strings..
Can’t hire those unwilling to work. The issue certainly isn’t job availability.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Ivytalk »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:30 am
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:53 am Sept jobs report 500k new hires expected, only 194k..way to go Biden..er I mean whoever is pulling Biden’s strings..
Can’t hire those unwilling to work. The issue certainly isn’t job availability.
So now we have child care “tax credits” in the unprecedented form of guvmint checks. More transfer payments to keep workers out of the labor market and on their couches. Jesus H. Crikey. :ohno:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:08 am
So I guess “woke” is anything conks bitch about now? Remember…when you complain about non-woke issues…it cheapens the complaints for actual woke issues. Or something like that.

:ohno:

I have a feeling some of you are going to spend the rest of your lives hating America…

Sad!

:ohno:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:33 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:08 am
So I guess “woke” is anything conks bitch about now? Remember…when you complain about non-woke issues…it cheapens the complaints for actual woke issues. Or something like that.

:ohno:

I have a feeling some of you are going to spend the rest of your lives hating America…

Sad!

:ohno:
It might not belong in this thread but Schumer's speech was stupid. It threw the Republicans who crossed over and helped pass it under the bus (and they're not happy with his speech either). Schumer made it more difficult for them to do that in the future. Less cooperation = more deadlocks. Schumer would rather crow and pander to his base then actually accomplish something. I hate idiots and partisan fools.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by CID1990 »

Here’s some more idiocy:


https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/10/ ... ts-n421136


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Re: The Official

Post by Winterborn »

Ibanez wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:32 am
Winterborn wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:16 am

Material costs are going up. Also I was referencing commercial grade and not the home consumer brands. Outside of a Harbor Freight tool here and there, I go full commercial grade in everything as I do my own repairs (commercial grade is made to be fixed).

Plus not being able to use slave labor in the case of Ego (Chinese company).
I laugh when I see advertisements for " military-grade." Most people don't realize that means the cheapest product to get the job done. :lol:
I agree for the most part. But there has been at least one mil-spec item that I have used that has lived up to the "military-grade" hype (at least for us). It is amphenol electrical connectors. We used them on all our test equipment and they took a beating at jobsites and during benchmarking/productivity. The equipment ran for a month at a time in some of the harshest conditions and kept on going.

We used these (MIL-DTL-5015) and some others.

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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:12 pm
kalm wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:33 pm

So I guess “woke” is anything conks bitch about now? Remember…when you complain about non-woke issues…it cheapens the complaints for actual woke issues. Or something like that.

:ohno:

I have a feeling some of you are going to spend the rest of your lives hating America…

Sad!

:ohno:
It might not belong in this thread but Schumer's speech was stupid. It threw the Republicans who crossed over and helped pass it under the bus (and they're not happy with his speech either). Schumer made it more difficult for them to do that in the future. Less cooperation = more deadlocks. Schumer would rather crow and pander to his base then actually accomplish something. I hate idiots and partisan fools.
:agree:

I would also add it is going to make the swings more abrupt and narrowed in on the party in power's pet projects.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:33 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:08 am
So I guess “woke” is anything conks bitch about now? Remember…when you complain about non-woke issues…it cheapens the complaints for actual woke issues. Or something like that.

:ohno:

I have a feeling some of you are going to spend the rest of your lives hating America…

Sad!

:ohno:
Who said this was a woke issue? :suspicious: This is the thread to comment on all things done by the Biden admin & donk controlled Congress and govt, woke or not. But since a lot of what they are doing is woke, hence the thread title.
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..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:12 pm
kalm wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:33 pm

So I guess “woke” is anything conks bitch about now? Remember…when you complain about non-woke issues…it cheapens the complaints for actual woke issues. Or something like that.

:ohno:

I have a feeling some of you are going to spend the rest of your lives hating America…

Sad!

:ohno:
It might not belong in this thread but Schumer's speech was stupid. It threw the Republicans who crossed over and helped pass it under the bus (and they're not happy with his speech either). Schumer made it more difficult for them to do that in the future. Less cooperation = more deadlocks. Schumer would rather crow and pander to his base then actually accomplish something. I hate idiots and partisan fools.
I mean I guess I could have put it in the debt limit thread ir Misc thread. But since this is the thread for all negative things Biden admin & donk controlled Congress that don’t have their own specific related thread, figured I’d put it here.
Last edited by BDKJMU on Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Winterborn »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:30 am
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:53 am Sept jobs report 500k new hires expected, only 194k..way to go Biden..er I mean whoever is pulling Biden’s strings..
Can’t hire those unwilling to work. The issue certainly isn’t job availability.
Why work when one can get all your basic needs filled by the government? Where is the incentive to move beyond that threshold and be a productive member of society?
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ivytalk wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:54 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:30 am

Can’t hire those unwilling to work. The issue certainly isn’t job availability.
So now we have child care “tax credits” in the unprecedented form of guvmint checks. More transfer payments to keep workers out of the labor market and on their couches. Jesus H. Crikey. :ohno:
Stand by in about 120 days for massive bitching from the left when their tax refunds are reduced by the amount of the child tax credit they received early. Most (if not all) do NOT understand how that math works.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by SDHornet »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:10 pm
Ivytalk wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:54 pm

So now we have child care “tax credits” in the unprecedented form of guvmint checks. More transfer payments to keep workers out of the labor market and on their couches. Jesus H. Crikey. :ohno:
Stand by in about 120 days for massive bitching from the left when their tax refunds are reduced by the amount of the child tax credit they received early. Most (if not all) do NOT understand how that math works.
These are the same people that probably believe the "infrastructure bill will cost $0" narrative.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:10 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:10 pm

Stand by in about 120 days for massive bitching from the left when their tax refunds are reduced by the amount of the child tax credit they received early. Most (if not all) do NOT understand how that math works.
These are the same people that probably believe the "infrastructure bill will cost $0" narrative.
I don’t know if this one will, but there can be a ROI from these type of programs. We’re still seeing the economic benefits of New Deal programs to this day.
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Re: The Official

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:31 am
Winterborn wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:18 pm

Is your fishing/green thumb good enough to feed your family for a winter or day to day basis? And how are you going to charge your outboard when the grid is crashing on a daily basis?

And CID left off the CE Industry (Construction Equipment) which is just as big as the AG (Agriculture) industry.

CAT has diesel electric "hybrids" on their large mining equipment for years. Their dozer line is a good fit for it as a dozer needs max torque at all speeds depending on the jobsites (haul trucks are another item). But that is on large mining equipment that a $100k here and there is pretty much peanuts. (nice explanation below)

(https://www.equipmentworld.com/equipmen ... -explained)

CNH, Volovo, Bobcat, JD, and CAT all have various fully electric compact construction equipment or prototype tractors they have shown off at the various farm shows. But there is several very big problems with them. Cost and Power Density. Construction equipment has as an advantage over AG equipment in that one can use the downward motion of many tasks (excavator for example) to capture some of the energy in doing the opposite motion. AG equipment has none of that advantage as they are pure mobile power units (very high power density usage cases). One other bit of background information is that equipment buyers expect the equipment to run a full 10 hour day at working conditions.

Compact construction equipment (defined mostly as equipment less than 10k #'s) has the most work done from a innovation standpoint, and the current battery tech can "barely" support their usage cases. Heat rejection is a very large problem and so is run time. Even with hot swapping (switching entire batteries out for new ones), run time is mostly around 8 hours (less than the 10 that is the industry norm). Power density is a large issue in the way both AG and CE machines run, they use engines that are doing much more work than a vehicle (many kw's of energy. Ex: STX 550 Quadtrac (common sized 4wd AG tractor) has a engine rated at 324kW). A typical construction site or farming operation will probably use as much power as a several neighborhoods in a city or a small rural town (I haven't crunched the numbers but I think it is a good SWAG). And that is just the theoretical power consumption, never mind that for the larger machines, your machine would need to tow a battery pack the size of the machine or be hooked to grid power just be able to run of which neither are practical nor possible with how these machines function.

The cost is also another factor and it is entirely due to the battery costs. Those pieces of equipment on the CE side (there is none available for purchase or rent on the AG side to my knowledge) are about double the cost of its corresponding ICE counterpart. When your average skidsteer (60hp) costs about $60k, and the same size electric counterpart that with out a second batter will only last 6-7 hours (with a 1 hour lunch charge) is at least $120k, it is no small investment for a company to purchase. Too my knowledge only a few models of under 75ph skidsteers or excavators have hit the market.

The people that are purchasing them are people bidding on indoor demo jobs where noise is a factor, Amazon/Facebook/etc whose bid process requires an offset of carbon credits (in some instances contractors have told me the machines do not even have to be working, they just want them parked on the site so they can use an ICE equipment to actually do the job) and the extra cost of the job is passed on to the consumers. Also some cites in the EU have banned ICE equipment in certain sectors of the city and it is either equipment that has hot swapping capabilities or a shovel. Right now it is an extremely niche market.

To get away (outside of a niche market) from ICE equipment, power density storage has to increase and lithium ion in any form now or on the near horizon is not going to do it. A completely different type of storage media is going to be needed (capacitors, etc.). But that also means the generation capacity will have to MASSIVELY increase and so will the electrical grid capacity. We aren't even within spitting distance right now. Cost also has to be comparable to a traditionally powered machine.

All the above also applies to over the highway trucking. There are a few companies that have claimed they can do it, but I will believe it when I see it.

California is at the bleeding edge of mandating electric powered equipment and in killing their power generation capabilities. CARB is looking at mandating battery power for all garden equipment sized (about 25-30hp and under) by 2030. This can be done, but you will pay double (or more) for a mower, rest of the garden line up (trimmers, blowers, etc) about 15-25% more. They have floated the same for CE and AG equipment but so far CARB is waiting to see right now (but my bet is within 2-3 years they will try it). As for charging, that aspect is up in the air for now.

Personally I can't wait too see what happens when CARB runs afoul of the laws of physics and it doesn't conform to their utopian ideals. A coworker was at a CARB meeting, before COVID, and it was almost comical the lack of understanding and amount of delusion that was shown by the regulators. One regulator stated, in the meeting, that business are just hiding the tech to implement their demands due to them not wanting to change and because they are greedy for profits. And this is a meeting between industry and the state, and this individual said it right in front of everybody. As a business, what are you to do, when nothing you say or show is taken into account and it basically delves into do as we say or don't do business here.

BTW: If I had spare money, I would be buying land on the Nevada/California border as equipment and car dealerships will be moving there as in the future you will not be able to purchase "banned" equipment in the state, but there is nothing stopping you from bringing it into the state to do the work (at least for now). And CID said it right in my highlighted portion of his post.
Good info, and thanks WB!

You mentioned garden equipment. The Ego and Ryobi stuff I’ve bought is ballpark to gas right now. What will drive the costs up?
Been looking at Ryobis 40V mower this past summer. Was thinking of buying that plus their power station. While I've got the gas/propane generator for big power outages that happen once per year, the portable power unit would work great in a pinch. Still just a little spendy for me.

https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/46396023759

In addition, I just bought a nice old school book on how to mini-farm on a quarter acre. The backyard is just itchin' to grow food.
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