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I don't care how you dress privately or who you love - if you want to serve our country then you should be given the opportunity.
How about this...people can’t serve for various reasons, even if they really want to...Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:56 amI don't care how you dress privately or who you love - if you want to serve our country then you should be given the opportunity.
I feel the Republican position is more about they don't approve of the lifestyle and less about the personal qualities that make an effective service member. And because they don't approve, they don't want anything to do with them. Which is fine for your personal life, but not in a democracy.
Besides, Klinger got shit done.
Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:50 amHow about this...people can’t serve for various reasons, even if they really want to...Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:56 am
I don't care how you dress privately or who you love - if you want to serve our country then you should be given the opportunity.
I feel the Republican position is more about they don't approve of the lifestyle and less about the personal qualities that make an effective service member. And because they don't approve, they don't want anything to do with them. Which is fine for your personal life, but not in a democracy.
Besides, Klinger got shit done.
If you are too short or too tall...
If you are under a certain weight or over a certain weight...
If you have a vision issue upon entry...even if it is correctable by surgery...
If you have Sarcoidosis, which is treatable with medicine and goes away in most people...
If you have even a slight heart murmur...
I can go on, but you get the picture...
Trans folks are being allowed in under this administration, which will pay for any operations they need, and will give them any medicines/drugs they need, for their transformation...
Lots of those drugs are not in the standard formulary of the DoD, which means they have to go off base/post/ship to get them...how does a sailor deployed on a submarine, for example, get them in the middle of the ocean while on a six month deployment...or a soldier deployed to Afghanistan get them when out at a FOB in the middle of no where???
I don’t care what a person does or loves off duty...I am opposed to creating exemptions for a small number of people for political purposes...
Those are medical disqualifications (and the reason why I couldn't enlist in 2001). But we aren't disqualifying Rob b/c of a heart murmur - it's because he like to sleep with men, wear a dress or feels that he's really a woman. Unless we're going to say being gay is a mental illness or thinking you're a woman when you aren't is a mental illness, then I don't see the harm in letting a person who wants to join...to join. It's hardly the same thing. That's all i'm saying. We used to say the same thing about blacks, Native Americans and women.Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:50 amHow about this...people can’t serve for various reasons, even if they really want to...Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:56 am
I don't care how you dress privately or who you love - if you want to serve our country then you should be given the opportunity.
I feel the Republican position is more about they don't approve of the lifestyle and less about the personal qualities that make an effective service member. And because they don't approve, they don't want anything to do with them. Which is fine for your personal life, but not in a democracy.
Besides, Klinger got shit done.
If you are too short or too tall...
If you are under a certain weight or over a certain weight...
If you have a vision issue upon entry...even if it is correctable by surgery...
If you have Sarcoidosis, which is treatable with medicine and goes away in most people...
If you have even a slight heart murmur...
I can go on, but you get the picture...
Trans folks are being allowed in under this administration, which will pay for any operations they need, and will give them any medicines/drugs they need, for their transformation...
Lots of those drugs are not in the standard formulary of the DoD, which means they have to go off base/post/ship to get them...how does a sailor deployed on a submarine, for example, get them in the middle of the ocean while on a six month deployment...or a soldier deployed to Afghanistan get them when out at a FOB in the middle of no where???
I don’t care what a person does or loves off duty...I am opposed to creating exemptions for a small number of people for political purposes...
There are DOD stories that show how many people are exempt from deploying (not just infantry, for example)and the strain those people put on the entire system...SECDEF Mattis issued a directive (outstanding one IMHO) that said that people, other than combat wounded in recovery, cannot be exempt from deployments (doesn’t mean they will deploy, but just not exempt) for more than one year...otherwise, they have to be considered for discharge...Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:45 amThose are medical disqualifications (and the reason why I couldn't enlist in 2001). But we aren't disqualifying Rob b/c of a heart murmur - it's because he like to sleep with men, wear a dress or feels that he's really a woman. Unless we're going to say being gay is a mental illness or thinking you're a woman when you aren't is a mental illness, then I don't see the harm in letting a person who wants to join...to join. It's hardly the same thing. That's all i'm saying. We used to say the same thing about blacks, Native Americans and women.Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:50 am
How about this...people can’t serve for various reasons, even if they really want to...
If you are too short or too tall...
If you are under a certain weight or over a certain weight...
If you have a vision issue upon entry...even if it is correctable by surgery...
If you have Sarcoidosis, which is treatable with medicine and goes away in most people...
If you have even a slight heart murmur...
I can go on, but you get the picture...
Trans folks are being allowed in under this administration, which will pay for any operations they need, and will give them any medicines/drugs they need, for their transformation...
Lots of those drugs are not in the standard formulary of the DoD, which means they have to go off base/post/ship to get them...how does a sailor deployed on a submarine, for example, get them in the middle of the ocean while on a six month deployment...or a soldier deployed to Afghanistan get them when out at a FOB in the middle of no where???
I don’t care what a person does or loves off duty...I am opposed to creating exemptions for a small number of people for political purposes...
You raise a good question, and personally I am opposed to paying for someone to have those operations. I would think that someone would not be medically qualified for active duty if they're at a FOB or on a submarine and would be in the rear with the gear or stateside. We also know that just because you request an MOS for infantry or something, doesn't mean the military will give you it.
I get that the medical position and that's a very fair point. I do, however, suggest that you can't join while you're going through the trans-process. Apply after you've had your surgery, psych exams and all that stuff. At that point, it's generic health care, right? I don't know but I would assume the hormone upkeep would be no different than make sure someone at a FOB or on a sub has their blood pressure medicine.Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:56 amThere are DOD stories that show how many people are exempt from deploying (not just infantry, for example)and the strain those people put on the entire system...SECDEF Mattis issued a directive (outstanding one IMHO) that said that people, other than combat wounded in recovery, cannot be exempt from deployments (doesn’t mean they will deploy, but just not exempt) for more than one year...otherwise, they have to be considered for discharge...Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:45 am
Those are medical disqualifications (and the reason why I couldn't enlist in 2001). But we aren't disqualifying Rob b/c of a heart murmur - it's because he like to sleep with men, wear a dress or feels that he's really a woman. Unless we're going to say being gay is a mental illness or thinking you're a woman when you aren't is a mental illness, then I don't see the harm in letting a person who wants to join...to join. It's hardly the same thing. That's all i'm saying. We used to say the same thing about blacks, Native Americans and women.
You raise a good question, and personally I am opposed to paying for someone to have those operations. I would think that someone would not be medically qualified for active duty if they're at a FOB or on a submarine and would be in the rear with the gear or stateside. We also know that just because you request an MOS for infantry or something, doesn't mean the military will give you it.
If someone is taking a drug that medics and/or forward medical units don’t carry (it can be for type II diabetes, or it can be the meds trans folks want/need) than that person is not qualified for deployment...
If the Biden Administration wants to make exceptions for trans folks...than why not make exemptions for every other group of people...hell, throw out the regs and just let everyone in regardless of medical issues...
And to your point about it being about their actions, if you need certain medicines, than it’s a medical issue...not an issue of not wanting people wh dress/act/love in a certain way...
Remove the emotion and look at it medically...if you need special stuff, you can’t deploy...
If you’re in the nuclear power program, they automatically remove your wisdom teeth, because they had instances of sailors on subs getting impacted teeth and having to surface a missile sub to offload them in the middle of the ocean, so now they just take them out at nuke school.Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:12 amI get that the medical position and that's a very fair point. I do, however, suggest that you can't join while you're going through the trans-process. Apply after you've had your surgery, psych exams and all that stuff. At that point, it's generic health care, right? I don't know but I would assume the hormone upkeep would be no different than make sure someone at a FOB or on a sub has their blood pressure medicine.Col Hogan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:56 am
There are DOD stories that show how many people are exempt from deploying (not just infantry, for example)and the strain those people put on the entire system...SECDEF Mattis issued a directive (outstanding one IMHO) that said that people, other than combat wounded in recovery, cannot be exempt from deployments (doesn’t mean they will deploy, but just not exempt) for more than one year...otherwise, they have to be considered for discharge...
If someone is taking a drug that medics and/or forward medical units don’t carry (it can be for type II diabetes, or it can be the meds trans folks want/need) than that person is not qualified for deployment...
If the Biden Administration wants to make exceptions for trans folks...than why not make exemptions for every other group of people...hell, throw out the regs and just let everyone in regardless of medical issues...
And to your point about it being about their actions, if you need certain medicines, than it’s a medical issue...not an issue of not wanting people wh dress/act/love in a certain way...
Remove the emotion and look at it medically...if you need special stuff, you can’t deploy...
Called a PRT now. Still different standards.BDKJMU wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:54 am I haven't taken an Army PFT in 20 years back when I was in the Nat Guard (don't even knw if they still call it a PFT), but back then it was different standards for males and females. I assume that's still the case. So does a male pretending to be a female have to only meet the lesser female standard? Same thing if you didn't make weight on the Army's ridiculous height/weight chart an had to get tape measure (a ridiculous way of measuring bodyfat). Different measurement standards for males and females.
I know people are denied for medical issues - I was.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:50 amIf you’re in the nuclear power program, they automatically remove your wisdom teeth, because they had instances of sailors on subs getting impacted teeth and having to surface a missile sub to offload them in the middle of the ocean, so now they just take them out at nuke school.Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:12 am
I get that the medical position and that's a very fair point. I do, however, suggest that you can't join while you're going through the trans-process. Apply after you've had your surgery, psych exams and all that stuff. At that point, it's generic health care, right? I don't know but I would assume the hormone upkeep would be no different than make sure someone at a FOB or on a sub has their blood pressure medicine.
It’s a medical issue. And people are denied entry for medical issues all the time.
Go ahead, bro. I went through Nuke school TWICE. One as an enlisted, once as an Officer. Trust me, EVERY nuke who has wisdom teeth on his X-ray gets them removed. Period.Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:19 pmI know people are denied for medical issues - I was.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:50 am
If you’re in the nuclear power program, they automatically remove your wisdom teeth, because they had instances of sailors on subs getting impacted teeth and having to surface a missile sub to offload them in the middle of the ocean, so now they just take them out at nuke school.
It’s a medical issue. And people are denied entry for medical issues all the time.
And I didn't know that about nuke sailors. Just in case, i'm texting my cousin who was a CHOP on a nuke sub for confirmation. Trust..but verify.
I’d love to hear what your cousin had to say. Is he current? Because my experience was 35+years ago.
I went from hard core, gun toting republican to hard core, gun toting independent while in the military too. You get a real good glimpse behind the government curtain when you’re in the military....and it ain’t pretty.
https://redstate.com/jeffc/2021/02/05/n ... ry-n322331New Defense Secretary Commits to Transforming Armed Forces Into ‘Woke’ Military
...Biden’s newly-anointed Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin, is already set on bringing positive changes to the military, which announced on Wednesday that it would be pausing regular activity within the next 60 days to tackle the issue of white nationalism and extremism. In order to make the progressive wing happy they are allowing members of the Marxist crowd to define what constitutes being a “white nationalist” or “extremist,” which means that our fighting forces are about to go through some rather dramatic changes.
To put it simply the United States military will be the most woke armed force in the entire world.
Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said that the defense secretary gave the order after it was revealed that former members of the military participated in the assault on the U.S. Capitol building. “He and Uncle Joe realized that this riot gave us the perfect opportunity to purge people with problematic political views,” he said, acknowledging that their definition of “white nationalist” is essentially anyone with non-progressive views.
Military leadership also confirmed that they are in talks with Twitter’s censorship brigade to gain insight on how they can execute a purge of servicemembers similar to what the social media company did with conservative accounts shortly after the riots. But removing conservative soldiers is only the first step.
Another spokesman said that the nature of military operations will experience a drastic revamp, indicating that drone strikes might be handled differently. “Instead of dropping bombs on terrorists in the Middle East, we will drop copies of Robin DeAngelo’s ‘White Fragility,’” he explained. “These books will help these misguided souls see that America now understands the error of its ways and how whiteness has caused all of their woes.”
Basic training will also see some significant changes. New recruits will still learn how to kill America’s enemies; they will also be trained to promote social justice worldwide. These servicemembers won’t just fight to defend the country and its allies, they will also learn how to eradicate homophobia, racism, Islamophobia, and every other type of bigotry.
In between combat training exercises, recruits will have daily three-hour-long seminars on teamwork, intersectionality, and Critical Race Theory. Even more, the servicemembers will not only learn how to kill the enemy, they will also learn how to avoid engaging in toxic masculinity. “Just because our soldiers could be involved in deadly combat where they have to slaughter brown people doesn’t mean they can’t be more in touch with their emotions while doing so,” said a source familiar with the new changes.
In a seeming repudiation of President Harry Truman, military leadership is looking at implementing a form of “limited segregation” to give minority soldiers safe spaces in which they can escape their melanin-challenged compatriots for a few hours. “Minorities having to be around white people all the time is a glaring example of white supremacy that isn’t talked about enough,” according to a memo sent to other military leaders.
Under the Biden administration, America’s military is poised to make some amazing strides towards inclusion and diversity. It is not enough to have a military free of racists; the nation needs a fully anti-racist military. When the transformation is complete, the United States will have a mighty armed forces apparatus that the rest of the world will laugh at admire. We can score another victory for the Biden administration.
