Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:59 pm
SDHornet wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:38 pm

Can't wait to see JSO's rebuttal to these facts. :popcorn:
They're a continuation of a statistically clear trend that started with the Trump administration so they're obviously his fault.
So if we use this measurement...Reagan...worst president ever?

:mrgreen:

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Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by CID1990 »

UNI88 wrote:
CID1990 wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 11:08 am
Shut down a US pipeline

Enabled a Putin pipeline

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But I thought Trump was Putin's lackey.

Now I'm waiting for Houndie to tell us what Putin has on Biden (or more likely Hunter). :coffee:
Dude

I watch the sanctions regime daily ... Bad actors violating sanctions is an intelligence smorgasbord

The dissonance over Trump’s treatment of Russia vs Biden’s treatment of Russia is.. interesting

But I’ll give Biden this ... he might be a little bit like me... when his cognitive abilities were at their apex, Russia was called “The Soviet Union” and they played by rules, and respected detente

He might still be thinking like that I dunno.. but he us not building a “hard on Russia” resume compared to Trump

Trump farted out a lot of dumb things about Russia but in the background it was hardball


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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 6:21 pm
UNI88 wrote:
But I thought Trump was Putin's lackey.

Now I'm waiting for Houndie to tell us what Putin has on Biden (or more likely Hunter). :coffee:
Dude

I watch the sanctions regime daily ... Bad actors violating sanctions is an intelligence smorgasbord

The dissonance over Trump’s treatment of Russia vs Biden’s treatment of Russia is.. interesting

But I’ll give Biden this ... he might be a little bit like me... when his cognitive abilities were at their apex, Russia was called “The Soviet Union” and they played by rules, and respected detente

He might still be thinking like that I dunno.. but he us not building a “hard on Russia” resume compared to Trump

Trump farted out a lot of dumb things about Russia but in the background it was hardball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trump wasn't a softie behind the scenes (there are a lot of sanctions and some legislation, IIRC) but what was the hardball response to Solar Winds? Was his downplaying its significance and laying blame on China rather than Russia hardball? Nope - he didn't do a thing about an act of war...and cyber attacks like this are an act of war. The SolarWinds hack was a monumental victory for Russia. :twocents:

I think Trump was incredibly naïve when it came to Russia and Putin. That could be from his inexperience with Russia from a government perspective, his personality of always playing tough on camera, he was known to love anyone that showered him with admiration, etc... who knows. :twocents:

I'll say it for the millionth time - Russia is a serious threat. We're just kidding ourselves if we don't think that.

Regardless of reasons, Russia is an adversary with a deep bench of highly trained and sophisticated hackers. They're good. In Solar Winds, they hung around for months, poking around companies and Federal Agencies and even had the skill to clean up the code behind them. We missed 2 big warning signs that something was wrong and it could've been stopped sooner than it had. I see and deal with state-sponsored hacks quite often - Russia is the real deal. They're better than us. :twocents:

Biden might be a lot of things - but he responded via expulsions and sanctions (now how toothless they may or may not be is a different is a different topic)
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:58 am
CID1990 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 6:21 pm
Dude

I watch the sanctions regime daily ... Bad actors violating sanctions is an intelligence smorgasbord

The dissonance over Trump’s treatment of Russia vs Biden’s treatment of Russia is.. interesting

But I’ll give Biden this ... he might be a little bit like me... when his cognitive abilities were at their apex, Russia was called “The Soviet Union” and they played by rules, and respected detente

He might still be thinking like that I dunno.. but he us not building a “hard on Russia” resume compared to Trump

Trump farted out a lot of dumb things about Russia but in the background it was hardball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trump wasn't a softie behind the scenes (there are a lot of sanctions and some legislation, IIRC) but what was the hardball response to Solar Winds? Was his downplaying its significance and laying blame on China rather than Russia hardball? Nope - he didn't do a thing about an act of war...and cyber attacks like this are an act of war. The SolarWinds hack was a monumental victory for Russia. :twocents:

I think Trump was incredibly naïve when it came to Russia and Putin. That could be from his inexperience with Russia from a government perspective, his personality of always playing tough on camera, he was known to love anyone that showered him with admiration, etc... who knows. :twocents:

I'll say it for the millionth time - Russia is a serious threat. We're just kidding ourselves if we don't think that.

Regardless of reasons, Russia is an adversary with a deep bench of highly trained and sophisticated hackers. They're good. In Solar Winds, they hung around for months, poking around companies and Federal Agencies and even had the skill to clean up the code behind them. We missed 2 big warning signs that something was wrong and it could've been stopped sooner than it had. I see and deal with state-sponsored hacks quite often - Russia is the real deal. They're better than us. :twocents:

Biden might be a lot of things - but he responded via expulsions and sanctions (now how toothless they may or may not be is a different is a different topic)
Are you advocating we should have gone to war with Russia? :suspicious:

And serious question: Do you think if WE hacked Russian companies on the level of the Solar Winds hack that Russia would admit it? Do you not think that the ABSENCE of information like that speaks volumes? To just look at the surface data and say “Russia is better than us” at hacking is JSO-level analysis.
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 10:15 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:58 am Trump wasn't a softie behind the scenes (there are a lot of sanctions and some legislation, IIRC) but what was the hardball response to Solar Winds? Was his downplaying its significance and laying blame on China rather than Russia hardball? Nope - he didn't do a thing about an act of war...and cyber attacks like this are an act of war. The SolarWinds hack was a monumental victory for Russia. :twocents:

I think Trump was incredibly naïve when it came to Russia and Putin. That could be from his inexperience with Russia from a government perspective, his personality of always playing tough on camera, he was known to love anyone that showered him with admiration, etc... who knows. :twocents:

I'll say it for the millionth time - Russia is a serious threat. We're just kidding ourselves if we don't think that.

Regardless of reasons, Russia is an adversary with a deep bench of highly trained and sophisticated hackers. They're good. In Solar Winds, they hung around for months, poking around companies and Federal Agencies and even had the skill to clean up the code behind them. We missed 2 big warning signs that something was wrong and it could've been stopped sooner than it had. I see and deal with state-sponsored hacks quite often - Russia is the real deal. They're better than us. :twocents:

Biden might be a lot of things - but he responded via expulsions and sanctions (now how toothless they may or may not be is a different is a different topic)
Are you advocating we should have gone to war with Russia? :suspicious:

And serious question: Do you think if WE hacked Russian companies on the level of the Solar Winds hack that Russia would admit it? Do you not think that the ABSENCE of information like that speaks volumes? To just look at the surface data and say “Russia is better than us” at hacking is JSO-level analysis.
Your reading comprehension sucks. :lol: First you think my criticism of D&I is advocating for it and now this. :lol: I didn't say Russia would admit anything. I'm saying TRUMP is naive in thinking the Russians aren't meddling in our affairs.

I'm saying Russia is an adversary and from my experience in cyber security threat and vulnerability detection/intervention/remediation for one of the the largest banks in the world and in the United States - I see a lot of really sophisticated work that blows the minds of some of the industry leading professionals. When FireEye tells you that the Russians are beating us, that's saying something.

JSO just looks at data/statistics. He doesn't interact with the data day in/ day out. I've responded to incidents in the past 6 years. I've seen what shitty hacktivist groups, state-sponsored groups and " lone wolves" are doing. :tothehand:

So please ,elaborate, how my first hand experience is on par with someone who just reads polls and spews statistics.
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by CID1990 »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:58 am
CID1990 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 6:21 pm
Dude

I watch the sanctions regime daily ... Bad actors violating sanctions is an intelligence smorgasbord

The dissonance over Trump’s treatment of Russia vs Biden’s treatment of Russia is.. interesting

But I’ll give Biden this ... he might be a little bit like me... when his cognitive abilities were at their apex, Russia was called “The Soviet Union” and they played by rules, and respected detente

He might still be thinking like that I dunno.. but he us not building a “hard on Russia” resume compared to Trump

Trump farted out a lot of dumb things about Russia but in the background it was hardball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trump wasn't a softie behind the scenes (there are a lot of sanctions and some legislation, IIRC) but what was the hardball response to Solar Winds? Was his downplaying its significance and laying blame on China rather than Russia hardball? Nope - he didn't do a thing about an act of war...and cyber attacks like this are an act of war. The SolarWinds hack was a monumental victory for Russia. :twocents:

I think Trump was incredibly naïve when it came to Russia and Putin. That could be from his inexperience with Russia from a government perspective, his personality of always playing tough on camera, he was known to love anyone that showered him with admiration, etc... who knows. :twocents:

I'll say it for the millionth time - Russia is a serious threat. We're just kidding ourselves if we don't think that.

Regardless of reasons, Russia is an adversary with a deep bench of highly trained and sophisticated hackers. They're good. In Solar Winds, they hung around for months, poking around companies and Federal Agencies and even had the skill to clean up the code behind them. We missed 2 big warning signs that something was wrong and it could've been stopped sooner than it had. I see and deal with state-sponsored hacks quite often - Russia is the real deal. They're better than us. :twocents:

Biden might be a lot of things - but he responded via expulsions and sanctions (now how toothless they may or may not be is a different is a different topic)
I never claimed Russia wasn't a serious adversary. And it is common knowledge around here that they are better than anybody else at cyber.

But Solar Winds has not gone unanswered. It might not be a response you would think is enough, but the IC is well awake on them

But the good news is that adjusting to cyber threats is easier than coming from behind technologically in terms of kinetic abilities. In that respect, Russia can only get away with so much, and the moment they do something in the cyber arena that gets the average American thinking something needs to be done, then something will be done. And without their cyber capabilities, they are a politically weak petro state with nukes.

But - even with a weak response on Solar Winds, the previous administration was a lot more than just talk on Russia.
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 10:42 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 10:15 am

Are you advocating we should have gone to war with Russia? :suspicious:

And serious question: Do you think if WE hacked Russian companies on the level of the Solar Winds hack that Russia would admit it? Do you not think that the ABSENCE of information like that speaks volumes? To just look at the surface data and say “Russia is better than us” at hacking is JSO-level analysis.
Your reading comprehension sucks. :lol: First you think my criticism of D&I is advocating for it and now this. :lol: I didn't say Russia would admit anything. I'm saying TRUMP is naive in thinking the Russians aren't meddling in our affairs.

I'm saying Russia is an adversary and from my experience in cyber security threat and vulnerability detection/intervention/remediation for one of the the largest banks in the world and in the United States - I see a lot of really sophisticated work that blows the minds of some of the industry leading professionals. When FireEye tells you that the Russians are beating us, that's saying something.

JSO just looks at data/statistics. He doesn't interact with the data day in/ day out. I've responded to incidents in the past 6 years. I've seen what shitty hacktivist groups, state-sponsored groups and " lone wolves" are doing. :tothehand:

So please ,elaborate, how my first hand experience is on par with someone who just reads polls and spews statistics.
You repeated “it’s an act of war”. If that doesn’t imply you think we should have gone to war over it, perhaps change your rhetoric.
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:07 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 10:42 am

Your reading comprehension sucks. :lol: First you think my criticism of D&I is advocating for it and now this. :lol: I didn't say Russia would admit anything. I'm saying TRUMP is naive in thinking the Russians aren't meddling in our affairs.

I'm saying Russia is an adversary and from my experience in cyber security threat and vulnerability detection/intervention/remediation for one of the the largest banks in the world and in the United States - I see a lot of really sophisticated work that blows the minds of some of the industry leading professionals. When FireEye tells you that the Russians are beating us, that's saying something.

JSO just looks at data/statistics. He doesn't interact with the data day in/ day out. I've responded to incidents in the past 6 years. I've seen what shitty hacktivist groups, state-sponsored groups and " lone wolves" are doing. :tothehand:

So please ,elaborate, how my first hand experience is on par with someone who just reads polls and spews statistics.
You repeated “it’s an act of war”. If that doesn’t imply you think we should have gone to war over it, perhaps change your rhetoric.
I'm not alone in that opinion.
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:01 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:58 am Trump wasn't a softie behind the scenes (there are a lot of sanctions and some legislation, IIRC) but what was the hardball response to Solar Winds? Was his downplaying its significance and laying blame on China rather than Russia hardball? Nope - he didn't do a thing about an act of war...and cyber attacks like this are an act of war. The SolarWinds hack was a monumental victory for Russia. :twocents:

I think Trump was incredibly naïve when it came to Russia and Putin. That could be from his inexperience with Russia from a government perspective, his personality of always playing tough on camera, he was known to love anyone that showered him with admiration, etc... who knows. :twocents:

I'll say it for the millionth time - Russia is a serious threat. We're just kidding ourselves if we don't think that.

Regardless of reasons, Russia is an adversary with a deep bench of highly trained and sophisticated hackers. They're good. In Solar Winds, they hung around for months, poking around companies and Federal Agencies and even had the skill to clean up the code behind them. We missed 2 big warning signs that something was wrong and it could've been stopped sooner than it had. I see and deal with state-sponsored hacks quite often - Russia is the real deal. They're better than us. :twocents:

Biden might be a lot of things - but he responded via expulsions and sanctions (now how toothless they may or may not be is a different is a different topic)
I never claimed Russia wasn't a serious adversary. And it is common knowledge around here that they are better than anybody else at cyber.

But Solar Winds has not gone unanswered. It might not be a response you would think is enough, but the IC is well awake on them

But the good news is that adjusting to cyber threats is easier than coming from behind technologically in terms of kinetic abilities. In that respect, Russia can only get away with so much, and the moment they do something in the cyber arena that gets the average American thinking something needs to be done, then something will be done. And without their cyber capabilities, they are a politically weak petro state with nukes.

But - even with a weak response on Solar Winds, the previous administration was a lot more than just talk on Russia.
It's not so common, apparently. :coffee:

Their cyber capabilities are frightening. These guys aren't playing around.
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:09 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:07 am

You repeated “it’s an act of war”. If that doesn’t imply you think we should have gone to war over it, perhaps change your rhetoric.
I'm not alone in that opinion.
Do you know how many “acts of war” occur on the high seas? If we ACTUALLY went to war every time one happened we’d be in a perpetual war. Like Afghanistan.

:coffee: :coffee:
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:11 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:09 am
I'm not alone in that opinion.
Do you know how many “acts of war” occur on the high seas? If we ACTUALLY went to war every time one happened we’d be in a perpetual war. Like Afghanistan.

:coffee: :coffee:
You ok, Tom? Did I say we need to go to war with Russia? Go back and READ. You won't find me saying that. Quit making shit up. :lol:


If anything - we're already in some sort of proxy war with them in the cyber battlespace. :twocents:
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:15 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:11 am

Do you know how many “acts of war” occur on the high seas? If we ACTUALLY went to war every time one happened we’d be in a perpetual war. Like Afghanistan.

:coffee: :coffee:
You ok, Tom? Did I say we need to go to war with Russia? Go back and READ. You won't find me saying that. Quit making shit up. :lol:


If anything - we're already in some sort of proxy war with them in the cyber battlespace. :twocents:
If we’re not going to go to war over it, it’s not an act of war.
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by Ibanez »

Was on a call with Regulators yesterday and this morning. SolarWinds has been a topic for months and this morning one of the examiners referred to the governments response as "toothless."
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by Skjellyfetti »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:16 am If we’re not going to go to war over it, it’s not an act of war.
wat
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by AZGrizFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 6:31 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:16 am If we’re not going to go to war over it, it’s not an act of war.
wat
what part is unclear to you?
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by UNI88 »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:16 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:15 am
You ok, Tom? Did I say we need to go to war with Russia? Go back and READ. You won't find me saying that. Quit making shit up. :lol:

If anything - we're already in some sort of proxy war with them in the cyber battlespace. :twocents:
If we’re not going to go to war over it, it’s not an act of war.
Do we really have to go to war for it to be an act of war? A wise poster once said ...
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:11 am Do you know how many “acts of war” occur on the high seas? If we ACTUALLY went to war every time one happened we’d be in a perpetual war. Like Afghanistan.

:coffee: :coffee:
:D
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Re: Some final Trump and Obama economy numbers

Post by AZGrizFan »

UNI88 wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 9:11 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:16 am

If we’re not going to go to war over it, it’s not an act of war.
Do we really have to go to war for it to be an act of war? A wise poster once said ...
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:11 am Do you know how many “acts of war” occur on the high seas? If we ACTUALLY went to war every time one happened we’d be in a perpetual war. Like Afghanistan.

:coffee: :coffee:
:D
I was using Mark’s definition, not mine. An act of aggression <> an act of war. And there are a shitload of “acts of aggression” committed....literally daily. Across multiple theatres....
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