Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by UNI88 »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:24 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:19 pm
It's your thread, what is the point of the thread? It would appear that the point of the article was to criticize the Capital rioters, saying that the Founders, who conservatives venerate, would have been appalled. I don't disagree but I would add that IMO the Founders would have also been appalled but not surprised by the BLM/AnTiFa riots.

I'm not buying the argument that the Capital riots were orders of magnitude worse than the BLM/AnTiFa riots. They were an escalation, another step in the idiotic cycle of "violence, vandalism, and mob rule" that both extremes are engaging in. Articles like this are an attempt to focus blame on the alt-righters while deflecting from the ctl-lefters.
WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.
I'm not certain they would have been appalled, given what our government has become. :suspicious: :suspicious:
I think they'd be appalled:
  • By what our government has become
  • That a charlatan mislead a bunch of gullible followers into believing that the election had been stolen so that they felt justified in storming the Capital.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:46 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:30 pm

There’s been plenty of discussion showing their similarities. If you’d really like I can regurgitate them for you.

Violence, vandalism, and mob rule are bad mkay?

Still not the point of this thread or the article.
you view it as merely "violence and vandalism" and attempt to brush off any comparisons with the events of 1/6. Others with clearer heads realize it was and continues to be much bigger...they want the destruction of our current form of government. Plain and simple.

Sound familiar?
Yeah...my overlords didn’t tell me the race riots were actually about insurrection. I even looked to the 140 Democratic Congress members openly supporting it for marching orders. Nada. Who the hell is running this Revolution anyway? :lol: :ohno:
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:19 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:30 pm

There’s been plenty of discussion showing their similarities. If you’d really like I can regurgitate them for you.

Violence, vandalism, and mob rule are bad mkay?

Still not the point of this thread or the article.
It's your thread, what is the point of the thread? It would appear that the point of the article was to criticize the Capital rioters, saying that the Founders, who conservatives venerate, would have been appalled. I don't disagree but I would add that IMO the Founders would have also been appalled but not surprised by the BLM/AnTiFa riots.

I'm not buying the argument that the Capital riots were orders of magnitude worse than the BLM/AnTiFa riots. They were an escalation, another step in the idiotic cycle of "violence, vandalism, and mob rule" that both extremes are engaging in. Articles like this are an attempt to focus blame on the alt-righters while deflecting from the ctl-lefters.
Perhaps. Then again the founders weren’t exactly anti-revolution. But once over they were clearly for reasoned discourse in deciding what best suits the country. Saying I don’t recognize a few similarities is akin to me saying you believe Jan 6th and the summer riots are exactly the same.

You guys need to decide whether the Jan 6th insurrectionists were clever, but caring patriots protecting you from the slippery slope of social democracy or a bunch of idiots.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by SDHornet »

:lol: @ kalm flailing away in his defense of another ho-hum Atlantic piece while trying to conflate it with the Capitol Riot.

I love this place. 8-)
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:39 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:19 pm
It's your thread, what is the point of the thread? It would appear that the point of the article was to criticize the Capital rioters, saying that the Founders, who conservatives venerate, would have been appalled. I don't disagree but I would add that IMO the Founders would have also been appalled but not surprised by the BLM/AnTiFa riots.

I'm not buying the argument that the Capital riots were orders of magnitude worse than the BLM/AnTiFa riots. They were an escalation, another step in the idiotic cycle of "violence, vandalism, and mob rule" that both extremes are engaging in. Articles like this are an attempt to focus blame on the alt-righters while deflecting from the ctl-lefters.
Perhaps. Then again the founders weren’t exactly anti-revolution. But once over they were clearly for reasoned discourse in deciding what best suits the country. Saying I don’t recognize a few similarities is akin to me saying you believe Jan 6th and the summer riots are exactly the same.

You guys need to decide whether the Jan 6th insurrectionists were clever, but caring patriots protecting you from the slippery slope of social democracy or a bunch of idiots.
Why can't they be caring, patriotic idiots?

It's not that you don't recognize the (more than a) few similarities, it's that you dismiss them (and the whole escalation element) in your efforts to put the focus on the Jan 6th riots to make those patriotic idiots look like Brown Shirts during a neo-Kristallnacht.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:32 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:46 pm

you view it as merely "violence and vandalism" and attempt to brush off any comparisons with the events of 1/6. Others with clearer heads realize it was and continues to be much bigger...they want the destruction of our current form of government. Plain and simple.

Sound familiar?
Yeah...my overlords didn’t tell me the race riots were actually about insurrection. I even looked to the 140 Democratic Congress members openly supporting it for marching orders. Nada. Who the hell is running this Revolution anyway? :lol: :ohno:
Yeah. It jumped the race-riot shark about 3 weeks in. It became about much more than that.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:39 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:19 pm

It's your thread, what is the point of the thread? It would appear that the point of the article was to criticize the Capital rioters, saying that the Founders, who conservatives venerate, would have been appalled. I don't disagree but I would add that IMO the Founders would have also been appalled but not surprised by the BLM/AnTiFa riots.

I'm not buying the argument that the Capital riots were orders of magnitude worse than the BLM/AnTiFa riots. They were an escalation, another step in the idiotic cycle of "violence, vandalism, and mob rule" that both extremes are engaging in. Articles like this are an attempt to focus blame on the alt-righters while deflecting from the ctl-lefters.
Perhaps. Then again the founders weren’t exactly anti-revolution. But once over they were clearly for reasoned discourse in deciding what best suits the country. Saying I don’t recognize a few similarities is akin to me saying you believe Jan 6th and the summer riots are exactly the same.

You guys need to decide whether the Jan 6th insurrectionists were clever, but caring patriots protecting you from the slippery slope of social democracy or a bunch of idiots.
Why not a bunch of idiots protecting us from the slippery slope of socialism?
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by AZGrizFan »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:52 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:24 pm



I'm not certain they would have been appalled, given what our government has become. :suspicious: :suspicious:
I think they'd be appalled:
  • By what our government has become
  • That a charlatan mislead a bunch of gullible followers into believing that the election had been stolen so that they felt justified in storming the Capital.
Precisely why I quoted that opening stanza. They’d be appalled. And “when in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected the with another....” Many would/could argue that time is once again upon us.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by UNI88 »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:01 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:52 pm
I think they'd be appalled:
  • By what our government has become
  • That a charlatan mislead a bunch of gullible followers into believing that the election had been stolen so that they felt justified in storming the Capital.
Precisely why I quoted that opening stanza. They’d be appalled. And “when in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected the with another....” Many would/could argue that time is once again upon us.
I don't think it is but I could be wrong.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:19 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:30 pm

There’s been plenty of discussion showing their similarities. If you’d really like I can regurgitate them for you.

Violence, vandalism, and mob rule are bad mkay?

Still not the point of this thread or the article.
It's your thread, what is the point of the thread? It would appear that the point of the article was to criticize the Capital rioters, saying that the Founders, who conservatives venerate, would have been appalled. I don't disagree but I would add that IMO the Founders would have also been appalled but not surprised by the BLM/AnTiFa riots.

I'm not buying the argument that the Capital riots were orders of magnitude worse than the BLM/AnTiFa riots. They were an escalation, another step in the idiotic cycle of "violence, vandalism, and mob rule" that both extremes are engaging in. Articles like this are an attempt to focus blame on the alt-righters while deflecting from the ctl-lefters.
That would make sense if this was an attempted juxtaposition between the two. But that’s a different debate than what I posted.
As it happens, this was a question the Founders thought about extensively. Their political and moral philosophy was based on what they considered a self-evident truth: Only by using our powers of reason to moderate our selfish, ego-based passions and emotions can we achieve the classical virtues—prudence, temperance, justice, and courage—necessary for personal and political self-government. A mob, by contrast, is animated by vices: rashness, self-indulgence, vulgarity, vanity, ambition, boastfulness, buffoonery, and envy, as listed by Aristotle. These are just the sort of traits inculcated online, with likes and clicks rewarding the worst of human instincts.
Now...can you ascribe mob mentality to the race riots as well? Of course. They got out of hand and became at times “rash”, “vulgar”, etc.

Was their motivation the same? Was the desired outcome the same?

Like I suggested, those questions and a comparison to Jan. 6th is a different topic. We can discuss it further if you’d like to determine a champion of 2020 mob ethical justifications.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:01 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:52 pm

I think they'd be appalled:
  • By what our government has become
  • That a charlatan mislead a bunch of gullible followers into believing that the election had been stolen so that they felt justified in storming the Capital.
Precisely why I quoted that opening stanza. They’d be appalled. And “when in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected the with another....” Many would/could argue that time is once again upon us.
I didn’t realize you’re a bud light swilling, ski boat driving, football loving revolutionary. Kind of proving my point here.

:lol:
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:37 am
UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:19 pm

It's your thread, what is the point of the thread? It would appear that the point of the article was to criticize the Capital rioters, saying that the Founders, who conservatives venerate, would have been appalled. I don't disagree but I would add that IMO the Founders would have also been appalled but not surprised by the BLM/AnTiFa riots.

I'm not buying the argument that the Capital riots were orders of magnitude worse than the BLM/AnTiFa riots. They were an escalation, another step in the idiotic cycle of "violence, vandalism, and mob rule" that both extremes are engaging in. Articles like this are an attempt to focus blame on the alt-righters while deflecting from the ctl-lefters.
That would make sense if this was an attempted juxtaposition between the two. But that’s a different debate than what I posted.
As it happens, this was a question the Founders thought about extensively. Their political and moral philosophy was based on what they considered a self-evident truth: Only by using our powers of reason to moderate our selfish, ego-based passions and emotions can we achieve the classical virtues—prudence, temperance, justice, and courage—necessary for personal and political self-government. A mob, by contrast, is animated by vices: rashness, self-indulgence, vulgarity, vanity, ambition, boastfulness, buffoonery, and envy, as listed by Aristotle. These are just the sort of traits inculcated online, with likes and clicks rewarding the worst of human instincts.
Now...can you ascribe mob mentality to the race riots as well? Of course. They got out of hand and became at times “rash”, “vulgar”, etc.

Was their motivation the same? Was the desired outcome the same?

Like I suggested, those questions and a comparison to Jan. 6th is a different topic. We can discuss it further if you’d like to determine a champion of 2020 mob ethical justifications.
You're right, it's not an attempted juxtaposition. It's an attempted replacement, whitewashing, everything before pales in comparison so let's forget about everything before and focus on January 6.

Was their motivation the same? Their motivations were very similar. There were at least two motivations causing the BLM/AnTiFa riots. Some were truly there for BLM, they felt disenfranchised to the extent that they felt violence was justified to make a point and bring attention to an inequitable situation. Others felt disenfranchised as well but their motives were less pure, at a base level they were just there to fvck sh!t up. You had people with similar motivations involved in the Capital riots as well.

Was the desired outcome the same? At a base level, yes - both wanted to tear down the system.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:58 am
kalm wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:37 am

That would make sense if this was an attempted juxtaposition between the two. But that’s a different debate than what I posted.



Now...can you ascribe mob mentality to the race riots as well? Of course. They got out of hand and became at times “rash”, “vulgar”, etc.

Was their motivation the same? Was the desired outcome the same?

Like I suggested, those questions and a comparison to Jan. 6th is a different topic. We can discuss it further if you’d like to determine a champion of 2020 mob ethical justifications.
You're right, it's not an attempted juxtaposition. It's an attempted replacement, whitewashing, everything before pales in comparison so let's forget about everything before and focus on January 6.

Was their motivation the same? Their motivations were very similar. There were at least two motivations causing the BLM/AnTiFa riots. Some were truly there for BLM, they felt disenfranchised to the extent that they felt violence was justified to make a point and bring attention to an inequitable situation. Others felt disenfranchised as well but their motives were less pure, at a base level they were just there to fvck sh!t up. You had people with similar motivations involved in the Capital riots as well.

Was the desired outcome the same? At a base level, yes - both wanted to tear down the system.
Ahhh bullshit. :lol:

So we’re both attempting to whitewash then in your mind? Remember, I don’t have a side....except AMERICA! What if I told you both occurrences saddened me? That doesn’t make them the same. Starting with the causes of disenfranchisement and ending with the remedy.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:26 pm :lol: @ kalm flailing away in his defense of another ho-hum Atlantic piece while trying to conflate it with the Capitol Riot.

I love this place. 8-)
Run away and find another bias confirming tweet, Junior. This is a big boy discussion. :thumb:
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by 89Hen »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:19 pm I'm not buying the argument that the Capital riots were orders of magnitude worse than the BLM/AnTiFa riots. They were an escalation, another step in the idiotic cycle of "violence, vandalism, and mob rule" that both extremes are engaging in. Articles like this are an attempt to focus blame on the alt-righters while deflecting from the ctl-lefters.
They were just more successful rioters which is not surprising given how ineffective and lazy antifa pussies are.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:22 am
SDHornet wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:26 pm :lol: @ kalm flailing away in his defense of another ho-hum Atlantic piece while trying to conflate it with the Capitol Riot.

I love this place. 8-)
Run away and find another bias confirming tweet, Junior. This is a big boy discussion. :thumb:
He nailed it kalm. Sorry.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:25 am
kalm wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:22 am

Run away and find another bias confirming tweet, Junior. This is a big boy discussion. :thumb:
He nailed it kalm. Sorry.
No need to apologize. Piling on poor ol’ kalm is blood sport around here. Glad you get satisfaction from it and it fulfills your day. :thumb:
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:32 am
89Hen wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:25 am
He nailed it kalm. Sorry.
No need to apologize. Piling on poor ol’ kalm is blood sport around here. Glad you get satisfaction from it and it fulfills your day. :thumb:
Appreciate you playing your part. :mrgreen:
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:07 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:58 am

You're right, it's not an attempted juxtaposition. It's an attempted replacement, whitewashing, everything before pales in comparison so let's forget about everything before and focus on January 6.

Was their motivation the same? Their motivations were very similar. There were at least two motivations causing the BLM/AnTiFa riots. Some were truly there for BLM, they felt disenfranchised to the extent that they felt violence was justified to make a point and bring attention to an inequitable situation. Others felt disenfranchised as well but their motives were less pure, at a base level they were just there to fvck sh!t up. You had people with similar motivations involved in the Capital riots as well.

Was the desired outcome the same? At a base level, yes - both wanted to tear down the system.
Ahhh bullshit. :lol:

So we’re both attempting to whitewash then in your mind? Remember, I don’t have a side....except AMERICA! What if I told you both occurrences saddened me? That doesn’t make them the same. Starting with the causes of disenfranchisement and ending with the remedy.
They're not the same but there are many similarities and one contributed to the other. Only a partisan hack lessens or ignores the similarities and relationship.

Whitewash, deflect, take the focus away from ... use whatever words you want but the end goal of articles like that is to make the MAGAts look bad while sweeping the BLM/AnTiFa riots of 2020 under the rug.

They were both bad and to truly move forward we need to acknowledge that and hold participants and the leaders that supported both of them responsible.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:22 am
SDHornet wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:26 pm :lol: @ kalm flailing away in his defense of another ho-hum Atlantic piece while trying to conflate it with the Capitol Riot.

I love this place. 8-)
Run away and find another bias confirming tweet, Junior. This is a big boy discussion. :thumb:
Naw, same shit, different thread. Hence the troll post I made. :coffee:

Plus 88 is hitting this thread out of the park. :nod:
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:00 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:39 pm

Perhaps. Then again the founders weren’t exactly anti-revolution. But once over they were clearly for reasoned discourse in deciding what best suits the country. Saying I don’t recognize a few similarities is akin to me saying you believe Jan 6th and the summer riots are exactly the same.

You guys need to decide whether the Jan 6th insurrectionists were clever, but caring patriots protecting you from the slippery slope of social democracy or a bunch of idiots.
Why not a bunch of idiots protecting us from the slippery slope of socialism?
With the slippery slope of anarchy? There is no defense of Jan 6. A group of snowflakes attacked the seat of government b/c their fella lost.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by Ibanez »

89Hen wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:24 am
UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:19 pm I'm not buying the argument that the Capital riots were orders of magnitude worse than the BLM/AnTiFa riots. They were an escalation, another step in the idiotic cycle of "violence, vandalism, and mob rule" that both extremes are engaging in. Articles like this are an attempt to focus blame on the alt-righters while deflecting from the ctl-lefters.
They were just more successful rioters which is not surprising given how ineffective and lazy antifa pussies are
:nod: The Jan 6 rioters took private jets to to DC. They've got skin in the game! They did more than leave their parents basement.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:41 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:01 pm

Precisely why I quoted that opening stanza. They’d be appalled. And “when in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected the with another....” Many would/could argue that time is once again upon us.
I didn’t realize you’re a bud light swilling, ski boat driving, football loving revolutionary. Kind of proving my point here.

:lol:
I said “many”. I didn’t say “I”.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:07 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:00 pm

Why not a bunch of idiots protecting us from the slippery slope of socialism?
With the slippery slope of anarchy? There is no defense of Jan 6. A group of snowflakes attacked the seat of government b/c their fella lost.
I see you don’t get it either.
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Re: Reason vs. Passion Based Emotions

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:29 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:07 am

With the slippery slope of anarchy? There is no defense of Jan 6. A group of snowflakes attacked the seat of government b/c their fella lost.
I see you don’t get it either.
Maybe you don't get it. There is no defense of January 6. Full Stop.
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