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Lots of talk in DC about corporations and the wealthy paying their "fair" share.

Sen. Bernie Sanders' Next Progressive Frontier: Reshaping A 'Rigged' Tax System

The first bill would restore the corporate tax rate to 35%, undoing a cornerstone of Trump's 2017 tax overhaul. Republicans cut the corporate rate to 21% in that bill, a move that Joint Committee on Taxation valued at $1.3 trillion over 10 years.

The bill would also end rules that allow companies to further reduce their tax bill by shifting operations offshore.

A second bill would add a new way to tax the wealthiest estates in the country. Sanders says the bill is aimed at the fortunes of the top 0.5%. It would exempt the first $3.5 million of an individual's estate from the estate tax, $7 million for married couples.

What do you think is fair for corporations and for the wealthy?

Since corporations pass those tax costs onto their employees and customers, I would say close to zero for corporations. Certainly not more than low double digits.

Current fed pov level for a family of 4 is $26.5k. So about triple that, 80k. For a family of 4 income tax (not including payroll):
Income 0 to 80k: 0%
Income 80k to pick a 6 figure number- 15%, no deductions.
Income above that 6 figure number: 30%, no deductions.

Could say start the income tax at 2x the poverty level. Or not till 4x. Change the percentages. But along those lines- simple. Of course it will never happen for obvious reasons.

I agree to a point - corporate tax rates should be close to zero. You're never going to get what you think you're going to get in terms of tax revenue from them anyway as governments can never keep up with the level of accounting that they can employ. And BDK's right, anything you do get ends up coming out of the pocket of the customers or employees anyway. I'd rather have the corporations here and employing people, and then taxing those people, rather than chasing them off overseas to other countries. It's basic game theory, if I raise my corporate taxes just a little, then it's in the corporations best interest to make their money elsewhere, and it's in the best interest of that other country to stay a little bit lower than our taxes in order to get that corporation there.

Best bet, though, is to tax income of the employees properly, and to make sure that the top earners in those corporations don't skip around the income tax because they get paid in stocks or something else that lowers their tax rate. That's how the CEO ends up paying less than the secretary in taxes.

I agree that it's better to have corporations here and employing people but what about goods that are produced here and sold internationally? What about companies that don't employ a lot of people or who have a lot of lower wage people? Maybe a tax credit for the number of employees and factoring in average wages/salary. A company that employs a lot of high wage people would pay less in taxes than a company with few employees or lots of low wage employees.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:26 pm I agree that it's better to have corporations here and employing people but what about goods that are produced here and sold internationally? What about companies that don't employ a lot of people or who have a lot of lower wage people? Maybe a tax credit for the number of employees and factoring in average wages/salary. A company that employs a lot of high wage people would pay less in taxes than a company with few employees or lots of low wage employees.

Stuff like that caused companies to hire accountants & tax attorneys to find workarounds & loopholes, which caused Congress to add more tax laws, which resulted in more unentended loopholes, which resulted in more tax laws, and on and on until we ended up with:

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:43 am Since corporations pass those tax costs onto their employees and customers, I would say close to zero for corporations. Certainly not more than low double digits.

Current fed pov level for a family of 4 is $26.5k. So about triple that, 80k. For a family of 4 income tax (not including payroll):
Income 0 to 80k: 0%
Income 80k to pick a 6 figure number- 15%, no deductions.
Income above that 6 figure number: 30%, no deductions.

Could say start the income tax at 2x the poverty level. Or not till 4x. Change the percentages. But along those lines- simple. Of course it will never happen for obvious reasons.

0% on anything reinvested in the company, about 25% on profits. Tax the shareholders/executives investment income at the same rate as they would pay if they had to work for their money.

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:08 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:43 am Since corporations pass those tax costs onto their employees and customers, I would say close to zero for corporations. Certainly not more than low double digits.

Current fed pov level for a family of 4 is $26.5k. So about triple that, 80k. For a family of 4 income tax (not including payroll):
Income 0 to 80k: 0%
Income 80k to pick a 6 figure number- 15%, no deductions.
Income above that 6 figure number: 30%, no deductions.

Could say start the income tax at 2x the poverty level. Or not till 4x. Change the percentages. But along those lines- simple. Of course it will never happen for obvious reasons.

0% on anything reinvested in the company, about 25% on profits. Tax the shareholders/executives investment income at the same rate as they would pay if they had to work for their money.

A nation of 330 million that spans a continent and projects power across the globe requires a big government. We’ve already dramatically cut and/or provided loopholes for corporate taxes and wealth. But we never replaced that revenue.

Also...an inheritance tax. It checks a few of the boxes we are supposed to be in favor of...no such thing as a free lunch, equality of opportunity, national debt, a check on established power and monopoly....

“We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community … The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and … a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.”

- Teddy Roosevelt

Fuck that. Government has zero claim against ANYTHING I leave my children. THEY (the government) didn’t build that.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:52 am Fuck that. Government has zero claim against ANYTHING I leave my children. THEY (the government) didn’t build that.

Why do you hate America?

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:57 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:52 am Fuck that. Government has zero claim against ANYTHING I leave my children. THEY (the government) didn’t build that.

Why do you hate America?

Why do you hate freedom?

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:02 am

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:57 am

Why do you hate America?

Why do you hate freedom?

I love freedom. I’m considering trading my Tundra in for GMC Sierra. I also think bulls with tits still have some value.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:21 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:02 am
Why do you hate freedom?

I love freedom. I’m considering trading my Tundra in for GMC Sierra. I also think bulls with tits still have some value.

Trading an American pickup truck for a Govt Motors?

I don’t know about the Sierra, but the Tundra, at least in 2016 when I bought my 1794, made in ‘Merica (San Antonio) with 70% N American parts (tied with Ford for most American). The GM halftons crewcabs OTOH, at least that year, made in Mexico with 40% N American parts.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:57 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:52 am Fuck that. Government has zero claim against ANYTHING I leave my children. THEY (the government) didn’t build that.

Why do you hate America?

I love America. I just don’t trust the government.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:28 am

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:21 am
I love freedom. I’m considering trading my Tundra in for GMC Sierra. I also think bulls with tits still have some value.

Trading an American pickup truck for a Govt Motors?

I don’t know about the Sierra, but the Tundra, at least in 2016 when I bought my 1794, made in ‘Merica (San Antonio) with 70% N American parts (tied with Ford for most American). The GM halftons crewcabs OTOH, at least that year, made in Mexico with 40% N American parts.

Lib logic, BDK. Every decision based on emotion.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:50 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:28 am
Trading an American pickup truck for a Govt Motors?

I don’t know about the Sierra, but the Tundra, at least in 2016 when I bought my 1794, made in ‘Merica (San Antonio) with 70% N American parts (tied with Ford for most American). The GM halftons crewcabs OTOH, at least that year, made in Mexico with 40% N American parts.

Lib logic, BDK. Every decision based on emotion.

^^^^ why conks have no sense of humor or satire.

IYFF ‘88!!!

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:08 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:43 am Since corporations pass those tax costs onto their employees and customers, I would say close to zero for corporations. Certainly not more than low double digits.

Current fed pov level for a family of 4 is $26.5k. So about triple that, 80k. For a family of 4 income tax (not including payroll):
Income 0 to 80k: 0%
Income 80k to pick a 6 figure number- 15%, no deductions.
Income above that 6 figure number: 30%, no deductions.

Could say start the income tax at 2x the poverty level. Or not till 4x. Change the percentages. But along those lines- simple. Of course it will never happen for obvious reasons.

0% on anything reinvested in the company, about 25% on profits. Tax the shareholders/executives investment income at the same rate as they would pay if they had to work for their money.

I just think it's too hard to say 25% on profits. What's a profit? Where is it realized (in this country or another)? That's why we're in this rabbit hole we're in now, corporate accountants are way more capable than government accountants, and they vastly outnumber their government counterparts, so they're always going to be able to find ways around things like taxes. And it also doesn't get to the problem of one country deciding to go with a 24% tax rate, then another with a 23% rate, and so on and so on. Some call it a race to the bottom, I just call it rational outcomes. People want companies and jobs in their areas and they'll do what they have to to get them to set up shop in their location.

Where I certainly agree is the taxing of shareholders and executives, especially the latter (not sold on taxing shareholders as regular income - there is something to be said for the availability of investment capital). Executives and anyone working for the company should never be able to be paid in a way that avoids income, and that should be easy to do without providing the distortions that impact where a company locates.

Keep it simple - no tax on corporate revenue, and tax everyone who works at the corporation based on their income (and everything counts as income).

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:29 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:50 am

Lib logic, BDK. Every decision based on emotion.

^^^^ why conks have no sense of humor or satire.

IYFF ‘88!!!

^^^^ why donks have no brainstem.

Corporations don’t pay taxes.

Bernie Sanders is no less an idiot crank than he was 30 years ago


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