The MSM

Political discussions
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

The MSM

Post by UNI88 »

From one of Kalm's favorite authors ...

The Sovietization of the American Press

The transformation from phony "objectivity" to open one-party orthodoxy hasn't been an improvement
When Biden decided not to punish Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Salman for the murder of Washington Post writer Jamal Khashoggi on the grounds that the “cost” of “breaching the relationship with one of America’s key Arab allies” was too high, the New York Times headline read: “Biden Won’t Penalize Saudi Crown Prince Over Khashoggi’s Killing, Fearing Relations Breach.” When Donald Trump made the same calculation, saying he couldn’t cut ties because “the world is a very dangerous place” and “our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,” the paper joined most of the rest of the press corps in howling in outrage.
...
This stuff is relatively harmless. Where it gets weird is that the move to turn the bulk of the corporate press in the “moral clarity” era into a single party organ has come accompanied by purges of the politically unfit. In the seemingly endless parade of in-house investigations of journalists, paper after paper has borrowed from the Soviet style of printing judgments and self-denunciations, without explaining the actual crimes.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
Winterborn
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 8812
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:33 pm
I am a fan of: Beer and Diesel Pickups
Location: Wherever I hang my hat

Re: The MSM

Post by Winterborn »

Good article and Tabbi puts into words something I have been thinking about here this past year or so, that our media outlets are nothing more than mouthpieces for their respective party or agenda.

I especially liked this quote:
This format isn’t all that different from the one we had before, except in one respect: without the superficial requirement to tend to a two-party balance, the hagiography in big media organizations flies out of control. These companies already tend to wash out people who are too contentious or anti-establishment in their leanings. Promoted instead, as even Noam Chomsky described a generation ago, are people with the digestive systems of jackals or monitor lizards, who can swallow even the most toxic piles of official nonsense without blinking. Still, those reporters once had to at least pretend to be something other than courtiers, as it was considered unseemly to openly gush about a party or a politician.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: The MSM

Post by SDHornet »

Glenn Greenwald has been on a tear regarding this issue as well.
User avatar
SuperHornet
SuperHornet
SuperHornet
Posts: 20264
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:24 pm
I am a fan of: Sac State
Location: Twentynine Palms, CA

Re: The MSM

Post by SuperHornet »

SDHornet wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:14 pm Glenn Greenwald has been on a tear regarding this issue as well.
Is he related to either the late Hank Greenwald or to Molly Holly?

(Holly is in HER HOF; Hank Greenwald SHOULD be if he's not already....)
Image

SuperHornet's Athletics Hall of Fame includes Jacksonville State kicker Ashley Martin, the first girl to score in a Division I football game. She kicked 3 PATs in a 2001 game for J-State.
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:41 am Good article and Tabbi puts into words something I have been thinking about here this past year or so, that our media outlets are nothing more than mouthpieces for their respective party or agenda.

I especially liked this quote:
This format isn’t all that different from the one we had before, except in one respect: without the superficial requirement to tend to a two-party balance, the hagiography in big media organizations flies out of control. These companies already tend to wash out people who are too contentious or anti-establishment in their leanings. Promoted instead, as even Noam Chomsky described a generation ago, are people with the digestive systems of jackals or monitor lizards, who can swallow even the most toxic piles of official nonsense without blinking. Still, those reporters once had to at least pretend to be something other than courtiers, as it was considered unseemly to openly gush about a party or a politician.
That Stood out to me as well. :nod: Tough to disagree with any of this.

I’ll add that “Establishment media” is a slightly better description than MSM. Gain access to the political and monied elite, don’t rock the boat, and maintain the status quo.

That said, there’s still some advantages to having the resources and journalistic training and education of establishment media. They can afford to put real reporters on the ground, observe, and with credentials to gain access to people, and at least some fealty to truth in NEWS reporting .....vs. think tanks who’s grifters post the “news” via social media, typically sourcing similar outlets with little veracity. This has become “the news” for too many media consumers who lack the skepticism and critical thinking skills to parse through the bullshit. Or who are simply seeking confirmation bias.

Glad I’m being somewhat vindicated for Taibbi after all these years. :lol:

Next thing you know, Ivytalk will return to admit he was wrong about corporate personhood.

Nah.... :lol:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Winterborn
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 8812
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:33 pm
I am a fan of: Beer and Diesel Pickups
Location: Wherever I hang my hat

Re: The MSM

Post by Winterborn »

SDHornet wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:14 pm Glenn Greenwald has been on a tear regarding this issue as well.
Recent article by him that I found interesting and ties in with what '88 posted (bold added for emphasis).
Let's express this as clearly as it can be expressed. Any journalist who treats unverified stories from the CIA or other government agencies as true, without needing any evidence or applying any skepticism, is worthless. Actually, they are worse than worthless: they are toxic influences who deserve pure contempt. Every journalist knows that governments lie constantly and that it is a betrayal of their profession to serve as mindless mouthpieces for these security agencies: that is why they will vehemently deny they do this if you confront them with this accusation. They know it is a shameful thing to do.

But just look at what they are doing: exactly this. These are not journalists. They are obsequious spokespeople for the CIA and other official authorities. Even when they learn that they deceived millions of people by uncritically repeating a story that the CIA told them was true, they will — on the very same day that they learn they did this — do exactly the same thing, this time with a one-paragraph Treasury Department Press Release. These are agents of disinformation: state media. And when they speak, you should listen to them with the knowledge of what they really are, and treat them accordingly.
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/journa ... hey-spread
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:47 pm
SDHornet wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:14 pm Glenn Greenwald has been on a tear regarding this issue as well.
Recent article by him that I found interesting and ties in with what '88 posted (bold added for emphasis).
Let's express this as clearly as it can be expressed. Any journalist who treats unverified stories from the CIA or other government agencies as true, without needing any evidence or applying any skepticism, is worthless. Actually, they are worse than worthless: they are toxic influences who deserve pure contempt. Every journalist knows that governments lie constantly and that it is a betrayal of their profession to serve as mindless mouthpieces for these security agencies: that is why they will vehemently deny they do this if you confront them with this accusation. They know it is a shameful thing to do.

But just look at what they are doing: exactly this. These are not journalists. They are obsequious spokespeople for the CIA and other official authorities. Even when they learn that they deceived millions of people by uncritically repeating a story that the CIA told them was true, they will — on the very same day that they learn they did this — do exactly the same thing, this time with a one-paragraph Treasury Department Press Release. These are agents of disinformation: state media. And when they speak, you should listen to them with the knowledge of what they really are, and treat them accordingly.
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/journa ... hey-spread
Another source I used to get criticized for. :lol:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: The MSM

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:07 pm
Winterborn wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:47 pm
Recent article by him that I found interesting and ties in with what '88 posted (bold added for emphasis).

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/journa ... hey-spread
Another source I used to get criticized for. :lol:
Your two favorite journalists before you went all ctrl-left, uber-liberal on us ... ;)
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
Winterborn
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 8812
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:33 pm
I am a fan of: Beer and Diesel Pickups
Location: Wherever I hang my hat

Re: The MSM

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:07 pm
Winterborn wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:47 pm

Recent article by him that I found interesting and ties in with what '88 posted (bold added for emphasis).



https://greenwald.substack.com/p/journa ... hey-spread
Another source I used to get criticized for. :lol:
I will be honest, I only have read a few articles by both authors here in the last 6 months so they are new to me and I cannot speak to their past accuracy. Though perhaps they have grown and learned a few things since you first started following them. :thumb:
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
User avatar
Winterborn
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 8812
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:33 pm
I am a fan of: Beer and Diesel Pickups
Location: Wherever I hang my hat

Re: The MSM

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:18 pm
kalm wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:07 pm

Another source I used to get criticized for. :lol:
Your two favorite journalists before you went all ctrl-left, uber-liberal on us ... ;)
Just because he tends to take a short term viewpoint and has a big heart, doesn't mean you can use opprobrious terms like that. :whistle:
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: The MSM

Post by SeattleGriz »

The Conservative Treehouse.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:27 pm
UNI88 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:18 pm

Your two favorite journalists before you went all ctrl-left, uber-liberal on us ... ;)
Just because he tends to take a short term viewpoint and has a big heart, doesn't mean you can use opprobrious terms like that. :whistle:
Whatta bunch of dicks.... :ohno:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Winterborn
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 8812
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:33 pm
I am a fan of: Beer and Diesel Pickups
Location: Wherever I hang my hat

Re: The MSM

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:38 pm
Winterborn wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:27 pm

Just because he tends to take a short term viewpoint and has a big heart, doesn't mean you can use opprobrious terms like that. :whistle:
Whatta bunch of dicks.... :ohno:
Birds of a feather, flock together. :D
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: The MSM

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:04 pm
Winterborn wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:41 am Good article and Tabbi puts into words something I have been thinking about here this past year or so, that our media outlets are nothing more than mouthpieces for their respective party or agenda.

I especially liked this quote:

That Stood out to me as well. :nod: Tough to disagree with any of this.

I’ll add that “Establishment media” is a slightly better description than MSM. Gain access to the political and monied elite, don’t rock the boat, and maintain the status quo.

That said, there’s still some advantages to having the resources and journalistic training and education of establishment media. They can afford to put real reporters on the ground, observe, and with credentials to gain access to people, and at least some fealty to truth in NEWS reporting .....vs. think tanks who’s grifters post the “news” via social media, typically sourcing similar outlets with little veracity. This has become “the news” for too many media consumers who lack the skepticism and critical thinking skills to parse through the bullshit. Or who are simply seeking confirmation bias.

Glad I’m being somewhat vindicated for Taibbi after all these years. :lol:

Next thing you know, Ivytalk will return to admit he was wrong about corporate personhood.

Nah.... :lol:
There are very, very, very few of them with ANY journalistic integrity left. Very few REAL reporters who’ll ask the tough questions, get both sides of the story, and report the ACTUAL story instead of one completely slanted to fit theirs and their network’s agenda. There is almost ZERO actual NEWS reporting anymore.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm
kalm wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:04 pm

That Stood out to me as well. :nod: Tough to disagree with any of this.

I’ll add that “Establishment media” is a slightly better description than MSM. Gain access to the political and monied elite, don’t rock the boat, and maintain the status quo.

That said, there’s still some advantages to having the resources and journalistic training and education of establishment media. They can afford to put real reporters on the ground, observe, and with credentials to gain access to people, and at least some fealty to truth in NEWS reporting .....vs. think tanks who’s grifters post the “news” via social media, typically sourcing similar outlets with little veracity. This has become “the news” for too many media consumers who lack the skepticism and critical thinking skills to parse through the bullshit. Or who are simply seeking confirmation bias.

Glad I’m being somewhat vindicated for Taibbi after all these years. :lol:

Next thing you know, Ivytalk will return to admit he was wrong about corporate personhood.

Nah.... :lol:
There are very, very, very few of them with ANY journalistic integrity left. Very few REAL reporters who’ll ask the tough questions, get both sides of the story, and report the ACTUAL story instead of one completely slanted to fit theirs and their network’s agenda. There is almost ZERO actual NEWS reporting anymore.
You lost me at network.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: The MSM

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm
There are very, very, very few of them with ANY journalistic integrity left. Very few REAL reporters who’ll ask the tough questions, get both sides of the story, and report the ACTUAL story instead of one completely slanted to fit theirs and their network’s agenda. There is almost ZERO actual NEWS reporting anymore.
I can't refute what you posted so I'm going to respond with you lost me at network.
Truth!
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:27 am
kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 am

I can't refute what you posted so I'm going to respond with you lost me at network.
I’m a right wing crank pretending to be centrist who agrees with Z that network news is the only news and that there’s virtually zero real reporting left. Truth!
:kisswink:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: The MSM

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:51 am
UNI88 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:27 am
I’m a right wing crank pretending to be centrist who agrees with Z that network news is the only news and that there’s virtually zero real reporting left. Truth!
:kisswink:
:lol:

I don't watch the news, network or otherwise.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: The MSM

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

There are very, very, very few of them with ANY journalistic integrity left. Very few REAL reporters who’ll ask the tough questions, get both sides of the story, and report the ACTUAL story instead of one completely slanted to fit theirs and their network’s agenda. There is almost ZERO actual NEWS reporting anymore.
You lost me at network.
network/newspaper/service/plug in whatever "company" they work for....I don't give a shit. Doesn't change the point of the post, so nice red herring.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:05 am
kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 am

You lost me at network.
network/newspaper/service/plug in whatever "company" they work for....I don't give a shit. Doesn't change the point of the post, so nice red herring.
Where does UNI get his news? Regardless...it must have zero actual reporting.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: The MSM

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:36 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:05 am
network/newspaper/service/plug in whatever "company" they work for....I don't give a shit. Doesn't change the point of the post, so nice red herring.
Where does UNI get his news? Regardless...it must have zero actual reporting.
From you ... :D

The point isn't that there is zero reporting it's that journalistic integrity has declined severely. Why are you disagreeing with Taibbi and Greenwald?
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: The MSM

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:36 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:05 am

network/newspaper/service/plug in whatever "company" they work for....I don't give a shit. Doesn't change the point of the post, so nice red herring.
Where does UNI get his news? Regardless...it must have zero actual reporting.
Having been married to an ACTUAL journalist for the past 30 years, I know what real, unbiased journalism/reporting looks like. You see it very, very rarely anymore. Almost ALL "news" is now slanted, many times severely slanted, to one side or the other.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:47 am
kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:36 am

Where does UNI get his news? Regardless...it must have zero actual reporting.
Having been married to an ACTUAL journalist for the past 30 years, I know what real, unbiased journalism/reporting looks like. You see it very, very rarely anymore. Almost ALL "news" is now slanted, many times severely slanted, to one side or the other.
Breaking News!!!

The poster known as AZGrizFan has been seen flying over the city donned in a cape that reads “Captain Hyperbole”.

:lol:
Image
Image
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:30 am
kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:36 am

Where does UNI get his news? Regardless...it must have zero actual reporting.
From you ... :D

The point isn't that there is zero reporting it's that journalistic integrity has declined severely. Why are you disagreeing with Taibbi and Greenwald?
I’m not. I take them with a grain of salt like the rest. Many people have increased their consumption and flaws are bound to be noticed. It varies depending on the source...social media, establishment, local, print, TV.

There’s still plenty of quality journalism out there. It’s often lost in the shuffle.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: The MSM

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:03 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:47 am

Having been married to an ACTUAL journalist for the past 30 years, I know what real, unbiased journalism/reporting looks like. You see it very, very rarely anymore. Almost ALL "news" is now slanted, many times severely slanted, to one side or the other.
Breaking News!!!

The poster known as AZGrizFan has been seen flying over the city donned in a cape that reads “Captain Hyperbole”.

:lol:
Sadly there's no hyperbole at all. I wish there was....
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
Post Reply