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When Biden decided not to punish Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Salman for the murder of Washington Post writer Jamal Khashoggi on the grounds that the “cost” of “breaching the relationship with one of America’s key Arab allies” was too high, the New York Times headline read: “Biden Won’t Penalize Saudi Crown Prince Over Khashoggi’s Killing, Fearing Relations Breach.” When Donald Trump made the same calculation, saying he couldn’t cut ties because “the world is a very dangerous place” and “our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,” the paper joined most of the rest of the press corps in howling in outrage.
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This stuff is relatively harmless. Where it gets weird is that the move to turn the bulk of the corporate press in the “moral clarity” era into a single party organ has come accompanied by purges of the politically unfit. In the seemingly endless parade of in-house investigations of journalists, paper after paper has borrowed from the Soviet style of printing judgments and self-denunciations, without explaining the actual crimes.

This format isn’t all that different from the one we had before, except in one respect: without the superficial requirement to tend to a two-party balance, the hagiography in big media organizations flies out of control. These companies already tend to wash out people who are too contentious or anti-establishment in their leanings. Promoted instead, as even Noam Chomsky described a generation ago, are people with the digestive systems of jackals or monitor lizards, who can swallow even the most toxic piles of official nonsense without blinking. Still, those reporters once had to at least pretend to be something other than courtiers, as it was considered unseemly to openly gush about a party or a politician.

SDHornet wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:14 pm Glenn Greenwald has been on a tear regarding this issue as well.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:41 am Good article and Tabbi puts into words something I have been thinking about here this past year or so, that our media outlets are nothing more than mouthpieces for their respective party or agenda.

I especially liked this quote:

This format isn’t all that different from the one we had before, except in one respect: without the superficial requirement to tend to a two-party balance, the hagiography in big media organizations flies out of control. These companies already tend to wash out people who are too contentious or anti-establishment in their leanings. Promoted instead, as even Noam Chomsky described a generation ago, are people with the digestive systems of jackals or monitor lizards, who can swallow even the most toxic piles of official nonsense without blinking. Still, those reporters once had to at least pretend to be something other than courtiers, as it was considered unseemly to openly gush about a party or a politician.

SDHornet wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:14 pm Glenn Greenwald has been on a tear regarding this issue as well.

Let's express this as clearly as it can be expressed. Any journalist who treats unverified stories from the CIA or other government agencies as true, without needing any evidence or applying any skepticism, is worthless. Actually, they are worse than worthless: they are toxic influences who deserve pure contempt. Every journalist knows that governments lie constantly and that it is a betrayal of their profession to serve as mindless mouthpieces for these security agencies: that is why they will vehemently deny they do this if you confront them with this accusation. They know it is a shameful thing to do.

But just look at what they are doing: exactly this. These are not journalists. They are obsequious spokespeople for the CIA and other official authorities. Even when they learn that they deceived millions of people by uncritically repeating a story that the CIA told them was true, they will — on the very same day that they learn they did this — do exactly the same thing, this time with a one-paragraph Treasury Department Press Release. These are agents of disinformation: state media. And when they speak, you should listen to them with the knowledge of what they really are, and treat them accordingly.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:47 pm

SDHornet wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:14 pm Glenn Greenwald has been on a tear regarding this issue as well.

Recent article by him that I found interesting and ties in with what '88 posted (bold added for emphasis).

Let's express this as clearly as it can be expressed. Any journalist who treats unverified stories from the CIA or other government agencies as true, without needing any evidence or applying any skepticism, is worthless. Actually, they are worse than worthless: they are toxic influences who deserve pure contempt. Every journalist knows that governments lie constantly and that it is a betrayal of their profession to serve as mindless mouthpieces for these security agencies: that is why they will vehemently deny they do this if you confront them with this accusation. They know it is a shameful thing to do.

But just look at what they are doing: exactly this. These are not journalists. They are obsequious spokespeople for the CIA and other official authorities. Even when they learn that they deceived millions of people by uncritically repeating a story that the CIA told them was true, they will — on the very same day that they learn they did this — do exactly the same thing, this time with a one-paragraph Treasury Department Press Release. These are agents of disinformation: state media. And when they speak, you should listen to them with the knowledge of what they really are, and treat them accordingly.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/journa ... hey-spread

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:07 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:47 pm
Recent article by him that I found interesting and ties in with what '88 posted (bold added for emphasis).

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/journa ... hey-spread

Another source I used to get criticized for.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:07 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:47 pm

Recent article by him that I found interesting and ties in with what '88 posted (bold added for emphasis).



https://greenwald.substack.com/p/journa ... hey-spread

Another source I used to get criticized for.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:18 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:07 pm

Another source I used to get criticized for.

Your two favorite journalists before you went all ctrl-left, uber-liberal on us ...

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:27 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:18 pm

Your two favorite journalists before you went all ctrl-left, uber-liberal on us ...

Just because he tends to take a short term viewpoint and has a big heart, doesn't mean you can use opprobrious terms like that.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:38 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:27 pm

Just because he tends to take a short term viewpoint and has a big heart, doesn't mean you can use opprobrious terms like that.

Whatta bunch of dicks....

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:04 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:41 am Good article and Tabbi puts into words something I have been thinking about here this past year or so, that our media outlets are nothing more than mouthpieces for their respective party or agenda.

I especially liked this quote:

That Stood out to me as well. Tough to disagree with any of this.

I’ll add that “Establishment media” is a slightly better description than MSM. Gain access to the political and monied elite, don’t rock the boat, and maintain the status quo.

That said, there’s still some advantages to having the resources and journalistic training and education of establishment media. They can afford to put real reporters on the ground, observe, and with credentials to gain access to people, and at least some fealty to truth in NEWS reporting .....vs. think tanks who’s grifters post the “news” via social media, typically sourcing similar outlets with little veracity. This has become “the news” for too many media consumers who lack the skepticism and critical thinking skills to parse through the bullshit. Or who are simply seeking confirmation bias.

Glad I’m being somewhat vindicated for Taibbi after all these years.

Next thing you know, Ivytalk will return to admit he was wrong about corporate personhood.

Nah....

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:04 pm

That Stood out to me as well. Tough to disagree with any of this.

I’ll add that “Establishment media” is a slightly better description than MSM. Gain access to the political and monied elite, don’t rock the boat, and maintain the status quo.

That said, there’s still some advantages to having the resources and journalistic training and education of establishment media. They can afford to put real reporters on the ground, observe, and with credentials to gain access to people, and at least some fealty to truth in NEWS reporting .....vs. think tanks who’s grifters post the “news” via social media, typically sourcing similar outlets with little veracity. This has become “the news” for too many media consumers who lack the skepticism and critical thinking skills to parse through the bullshit. Or who are simply seeking confirmation bias.

Glad I’m being somewhat vindicated for Taibbi after all these years.

Next thing you know, Ivytalk will return to admit he was wrong about corporate personhood.

Nah....

There are very, very, very few of them with ANY journalistic integrity left. Very few REAL reporters who’ll ask the tough questions, get both sides of the story, and report the ACTUAL story instead of one completely slanted to fit theirs and their network’s agenda. There is almost ZERO actual NEWS reporting anymore.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm
There are very, very, very few of them with ANY journalistic integrity left. Very few REAL reporters who’ll ask the tough questions, get both sides of the story, and report the ACTUAL story instead of one completely slanted to fit theirs and their network’s agenda. There is almost ZERO actual NEWS reporting anymore.

I can't refute what you posted so I'm going to respond with you lost me at network.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:27 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 am

I can't refute what you posted so I'm going to respond with you lost me at network.

I’m a right wing crank pretending to be centrist who agrees with Z that network news is the only news and that there’s virtually zero real reporting left. Truth!

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:51 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:27 am
I’m a right wing crank pretending to be centrist who agrees with Z that network news is the only news and that there’s virtually zero real reporting left. Truth!

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

There are very, very, very few of them with ANY journalistic integrity left. Very few REAL reporters who’ll ask the tough questions, get both sides of the story, and report the ACTUAL story instead of one completely slanted to fit theirs and their network’s agenda. There is almost ZERO actual NEWS reporting anymore.

You lost me at network.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:05 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 am

You lost me at network.

network/newspaper/service/plug in whatever "company" they work for....I don't give a shit. Doesn't change the point of the post, so nice red herring.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:36 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:05 am
network/newspaper/service/plug in whatever "company" they work for....I don't give a shit. Doesn't change the point of the post, so nice red herring.

Where does UNI get his news? Regardless...it must have zero actual reporting.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:36 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:05 am

network/newspaper/service/plug in whatever "company" they work for....I don't give a shit. Doesn't change the point of the post, so nice red herring.

Where does UNI get his news? Regardless...it must have zero actual reporting.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:47 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:36 am

Where does UNI get his news? Regardless...it must have zero actual reporting.

Having been married to an ACTUAL journalist for the past 30 years, I know what real, unbiased journalism/reporting looks like. You see it very, very rarely anymore. Almost ALL "news" is now slanted, many times severely slanted, to one side or the other.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:30 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:36 am

Where does UNI get his news? Regardless...it must have zero actual reporting.

From you ...

The point isn't that there is zero reporting it's that journalistic integrity has declined severely. Why are you disagreeing with Taibbi and Greenwald?

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:03 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:47 am

Having been married to an ACTUAL journalist for the past 30 years, I know what real, unbiased journalism/reporting looks like. You see it very, very rarely anymore. Almost ALL "news" is now slanted, many times severely slanted, to one side or the other.

Breaking News!!!

The poster known as AZGrizFan has been seen flying over the city donned in a cape that reads “Captain Hyperbole”.