Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

Figured I’d stick this here but it obviously has implications regarding Russia, the border, and 2024 presidential race.

The peace agreement is what needs to happen but it’s an uphill geopolitical battle. Trump controls half of Congress and is more concerned with the election and self preservation than even the border.

I suggest reading the entire article.
They are trying to stop what Patrick Kingsley and Edward Wong outlined in the New York Times yesterday: a new deal in the Middle East that would end the war between Hamas and Israel and establish a Palestinian state. The constant round of phone calls and visits of Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken with at least ten different countries is designed to hammer out deals on a number of fronts.

The first is for a cease-fire between Hamas and Israel, which would require the exchange of more than 100 Israeli hostages taken on October 7 for thousands of Palestinians held by the Israelis. The second is for a new, nonpartisan Palestinian Authority to take control of Gaza and the West Bank. The third is for international recognition of a Palestinian state, which would be eased by Saudi Arabia’s recognition of Israel. If that recognition occurs, Arab states have pledged significant funds to rebuild Gaza.

Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has rejected this proposal, but his popularity is so low people are talking openly about who can replace him. Hamas and Iran also reject this proposal, which promises to isolate Iran and the militias from stable states in the Middle East….

In the United States, today marks the 100th day that extremist Republicans have refused to provide supplemental funding for Ukraine or Israel arguing that funding to protect the U.S. border must be addressed first. On October 20, 2023, as David Frum pointed out today, Biden asked Congress for “$106 billion to aid Ukraine and Israel against attack by Russia, Iran, and their proxies.” That funding has bipartisan support, but “[f]or 100 days, House Republicans have said NO,” Frum said. “Today, Iranian proxies have killed Americans.”

Republicans’ insistence that they want border funding has proved to be a lie, as Democratic and Republican senators have hammered out a strong agreement that extremist Republicans now reject. Former president Trump has made it clear he wants to run on the idea that the border is overwhelmed, so has demanded his supporters prevent any solution. Today, on the Fox News Channel, when asked why Republicans should let Biden “take a victory lap” with a border deal, Senator James Lankford (R-OK), who has been part of the border deal negotiation team, responded with some heat:

“Republicans four months ago would not give funding for Ukraine, for Israel, and for our southern border because we demanded changes in policy. So we actually locked arms together and said we’re not going to give you money for this, we want a change in law. And now it’s interesting, a few months later, when we’re finally getting to the end they’re like, ‘Oh, just kidding, I actually don’t want a change in law because [it’s] a presidential election year.’ We all have an oath to the Constitution, and we have a commitment to say we’re going to do whatever we can to be able to secure the border."
https://open.substack.com/pub/heatherco ... paign=post
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by houndawg »

kalm wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2024 6:17 am Figured I’d stick this here but it obviously has implications regarding Russia, the border, and 2024 presidential race.

The peace agreement is what needs to happen but it’s an uphill geopolitical battle. Trump controls half of Congress and is more concerned with the election and self preservation than even the border.

I suggest reading the entire article.
They are trying to stop what Patrick Kingsley and Edward Wong outlined in the New York Times yesterday: a new deal in the Middle East that would end the war between Hamas and Israel and establish a Palestinian state. The constant round of phone calls and visits of Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken with at least ten different countries is designed to hammer out deals on a number of fronts.

The first is for a cease-fire between Hamas and Israel, which would require the exchange of more than 100 Israeli hostages taken on October 7 for thousands of Palestinians held by the Israelis. The second is for a new, nonpartisan Palestinian Authority to take control of Gaza and the West Bank. The third is for international recognition of a Palestinian state, which would be eased by Saudi Arabia’s recognition of Israel. If that recognition occurs, Arab states have pledged significant funds to rebuild Gaza.

Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has rejected this proposal, but his popularity is so low people are talking openly about who can replace him. Hamas and Iran also reject this proposal, which promises to isolate Iran and the militias from stable states in the Middle East….

In the United States, today marks the 100th day that extremist Republicans have refused to provide supplemental funding for Ukraine or Israel arguing that funding to protect the U.S. border must be addressed first. On October 20, 2023, as David Frum pointed out today, Biden asked Congress for “$106 billion to aid Ukraine and Israel against attack by Russia, Iran, and their proxies.” That funding has bipartisan support, but “[f]or 100 days, House Republicans have said NO,” Frum said. “Today, Iranian proxies have killed Americans.”

Republicans’ insistence that they want border funding has proved to be a lie, as Democratic and Republican senators have hammered out a strong agreement that extremist Republicans now reject. Former president Trump has made it clear he wants to run on the idea that the border is overwhelmed, so has demanded his supporters prevent any solution. Today, on the Fox News Channel, when asked why Republicans should let Biden “take a victory lap” with a border deal, Senator James Lankford (R-OK), who has been part of the border deal negotiation team, responded with some heat:

“Republicans four months ago would not give funding for Ukraine, for Israel, and for our southern border because we demanded changes in policy. So we actually locked arms together and said we’re not going to give you money for this, we want a change in law. And now it’s interesting, a few months later, when we’re finally getting to the end they’re like, ‘Oh, just kidding, I actually don’t want a change in law because [it’s] a presidential election year.’ We all have an oath to the Constitution, and we have a commitment to say we’re going to do whatever we can to be able to secure the border."
https://open.substack.com/pub/heatherco ... paign=post
Bibi, Trump...running for office to avoid prison....the Axis of Evil
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

Biden asked for 14.5 billion Israel aid package.
House passes 17.6 billion Israel aid package.
Biden threatens veto. Shave off the extra 3 billion and call his bluff..
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

Meanwhile in Gaza.

(This should be the number one complaint regarding Biden. Sadly, most of our political leaders and MAGA agree with him)



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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by UNI88 »

Have we forgotten why Israel invaded Gaza? This is a humanitarian crisis that Hamas started.

I think Israel should agree to peace one final time. Let the Palestinians and the world know that if Hamas violates that peace again there will be no mercy. Gaza will be razed and turned into oceanfront hotels & condos.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 10:24 am Have we forgotten why Israel invaded Gaza? This is a humanitarian crisis that Hamas started.

I think Israel should agree to peace one final time. Let the Palestinians and the world know that if Hamas violates that peace again there will be no mercy. Gaza will be razed and turned into oceanfront hotels & condos.
Nope, they’ve already been down that road. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

FWIW, just like I’m against more tens/hundreds of billions for Ukraine, I’m against more billions/tens of billions for Israel (above the 4 billion or whatever it is) we already have been sending them annually. Israel is a wealthy country, the US is broke and massively in debt, and can’t afford to be sending hundreds of billions of $$$ to other countries the US doesn’t have, but has to borrow.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 10:24 am Have we forgotten why Israel invaded Gaza? This is a humanitarian crisis that Hamas started.

I think Israel should agree to peace one final time. Let the Palestinians and the world know that if Hamas violates that peace again there will be no mercy. Gaza will be razed and turned into oceanfront hotels & condos.
No. Hamas instigated this. Israel has put the pedal down. The innocents Palestinians are paying the price.

Hasn’t Gaza already been razed?

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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:21 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 10:24 am Have we forgotten why Israel invaded Gaza? This is a humanitarian crisis that Hamas started.

I think Israel should agree to peace one final time. Let the Palestinians and the world know that if Hamas violates that peace again there will be no mercy. Gaza will be razed and turned into oceanfront hotels & condos.
No. Hamas instigated this. Israel has put the pedal down. The innocents Palestinians are paying the price.

Hasn’t Gaza already been razed?

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The Palestinians elected HAMAS.
The Germans elected the NAZIS. The allies put the pedal dowm. The innocent Germans paid the price.

Most major German cities (and a lot of medium amd small sized ones) were razed in WWII, worse than in the above pic..
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 6:01 pm
kalm wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:21 pm

No. Hamas instigated this. Israel has put the pedal down. The innocents Palestinians are paying the price.

Hasn’t Gaza already been razed?

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The Palestinians elected HAMAS.
The Germans elected the NAZIS. The allies put the pedal dowm. The innocent Germans paid the price.

Most major German cities (and a lot of medium amd small sized ones) were razed in WWII, worse than in the above pic..
The irony of a poster who wants to give the Neville Chamberlain treatment to putin debating a poster who wants to give the Neville Chamberlain treatment to Hamas. :coffee:
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:27 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 6:01 pm
The Palestinians elected HAMAS.
The Germans elected the NAZIS. The allies put the pedal dowm. The innocent Germans paid the price.

Most major German cities (and a lot of medium amd small sized ones) were razed in WWII, worse than in the above pic..
The irony of a poster who wants to give the Neville Chamberlain treatment to putin debating a poster who wants to give the Neville Chamberlain treatment to Hamas. :coffee:
Take a moment and reflect back on my post. What do you disagree with about it?
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by houndawg »

BDKJMU wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:34 pm Biden asked for 14.5 billion Israel aid package.
House passes 17.6 billion Israel aid package.
Biden threatens veto. Shave off the extra 3 billion and call his bluff..
How'd that work out for you on the border deal?
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:38 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:27 pm

The irony of a poster who wants to give the Neville Chamberlain treatment to putin debating a poster who wants to give the Neville Chamberlain treatment to Hamas. :coffee:
Take a moment and reflect back on my post. What do you disagree with about it?
It's not a single post. It's the belief that Israel needs to negotiate with Hamas. They've been down that road countless times and there is peace temporarily. It never lasts. Hamas will instigate another terrorist attack against Israeli citizens and Israel will retaliate with brutal force. The world press and bleeding-heart liberals decry the Israeli response as inhumane and call on them to negotiate again. It's a neverending cycle and it needs to end either now or Hamas gets one final chance. If they give Hamas one last chance, the world press and all those bleeding-heart liberals need to know that another attack will be met with overwhelming force and there will be no mercy given.

We all know that given the opportunity, Hamas will engage in future terrorist attacks regardless of the potential consequences. So it will be up to the Palestinian people in Gaza. They can continue to overtly or tacitly support Hamas, guaranteeing their own doom, or they can kick them to the curb.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:05 pm
kalm wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:38 pm

Take a moment and reflect back on my post. What do you disagree with about it?
It's not a single post. It's the belief that Israel needs to negotiate with Hamas. They've been down that road countless times and there is peace temporarily. It never lasts. Hamas will instigate another terrorist attack against Israeli citizens and Israel will retaliate with brutal force. The world press and bleeding-heart liberals decry the Israeli response as inhumane and call on them to negotiate again. It's a neverending cycle and it needs to end either now or Hamas gets one final chance. If they give Hamas one last chance, the world press and all those bleeding-heart liberals need to know that another attack will be met with overwhelming force and there will be no mercy given.

We all know that given the opportunity, Hamas will engage in future terrorist attacks regardless of the potential consequences. So it will be up to the Palestinian people in Gaza. They can continue to overtly or tacitly support Hamas, guaranteeing their own doom, or they can kick them to the curb.
I don’t recall taking a stand against any of your uses here. Nor a Chamberlainesque stance.

Hamas are violent extremists supported authoritarian Muslim regimes. Israel’s overreaction and taking of innocent lives (and a large chunk of those didn’t vote Hamas into power) is also extreme and violent.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:10 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:05 pm
It's not a single post. It's the belief that Israel needs to negotiate with Hamas. They've been down that road countless times and there is peace temporarily. It never lasts. Hamas will instigate another terrorist attack against Israeli citizens and Israel will retaliate with brutal force. The world press and bleeding-heart liberals decry the Israeli response as inhumane and call on them to negotiate again. It's a neverending cycle and it needs to end either now or Hamas gets one final chance. If they give Hamas one last chance, the world press and all those bleeding-heart liberals need to know that another attack will be met with overwhelming force and there will be no mercy given.

We all know that given the opportunity, Hamas will engage in future terrorist attacks regardless of the potential consequences. So it will be up to the Palestinian people in Gaza. They can continue to overtly or tacitly support Hamas, guaranteeing their own doom, or they can kick them to the curb.
I don’t recall taking a stand against any of your uses here. Nor a Chamberlainesque stance.

Hamas are violent extremists supported authoritarian Muslim regimes. Israel’s overreaction and taking of innocent lives (and a large chunk of those didn’t vote Hamas into power) is also extreme and violent.
Is it an overreaction? What you and many others would consider an acceptable reaction would in all likelihood just continue the cycle of terror and death. If I'm Israel I'm not playing that game anymore.

It's possible that thousands of innocent deaths now will save ten times as many innocent lives in the future.

How do you propose to end the cycle?
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:17 pm
kalm wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:10 pm

I don’t recall taking a stand against any of your uses here. Nor a Chamberlainesque stance.

Hamas are violent extremists supported authoritarian Muslim regimes. Israel’s overreaction and taking of innocent lives (and a large chunk of those didn’t vote Hamas into power) is also extreme and violent.
Is it an overreaction? What you and many others would consider an acceptable reaction would in all likelihood just continue the cycle of terror and death. If I'm Israel I'm not playing that game anymore.

It's possible that thousands of innocent deaths now will save ten times as many innocent lives in the future.

How do you propose to end the cycle?
Overreactions continue the same cycles.

I don’t pretend to have the answers and who knows what’s ends up working, but a few thoughts.

Cease fire now as am hunger and disease become by by-products.

Less indiscriminate bombing and more boots on the ground to target Hamas and create stability.

Then negotiate a lasting peace that’s either a two-state solution or an even more strictly occupied permanent territory and curtailing of extremist Israeli settlers.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

Regardless, this ain’t right, man.
I began work immediately, performing 10 to 12 surgeries a day, working 14 to 16 hours at a time. The operating room would often shake from the incessant bombings, sometimes as frequent as every 30 seconds. We operated in unsterile settings that would’ve been unthinkable in the United States. We had limited access to critical medical equipment: We performed amputations of arms and legs daily, using a Gigli saw, a Civil War-era tool, essentially a segment of barbed wire. Many amputations could’ve been avoided if we’d had access to standard medical equipment. It was a struggle trying to care for all the injured within the constructs of a healthcare system that has utterly collapsed.

I stopped keeping track of how many new orphans I had operated on. After surgery they would be filed somewhere in the hospital, I’m unsure of who will take care of them or how they will survive. On one occasion, a handful of children, all about ages 5 to 8, were carried to the emergency room by their parents. All had single sniper shots to the head. These families were returning to their homes in Khan Yunis, about 2.5 miles away from the hospital, after Israeli tanks had withdrawn. But the snipers apparently stayed behind. None of these children survived.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:49 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:17 pm

Is it an overreaction? What you and many others would consider an acceptable reaction would in all likelihood just continue the cycle of terror and death. If I'm Israel I'm not playing that game anymore.

It's possible that thousands of innocent deaths now will save ten times as many innocent lives in the future.

How do you propose to end the cycle?
Overreactions continue the same cycles.

I don’t pretend to have the answers and who knows what’s ends up working, but a few thoughts.

Cease fire now as am hunger and disease become by by-products.

Less indiscriminate bombing and more boots on the ground to target Hamas and create stability.

Then negotiate a lasting peace that’s either a two-state solution or an even more strictly occupied permanent territory and curtailing of extremist Israeli settlers.
The cycles will continue regardless of the Israeli response until Hamas is tossed out. It doesn't matter if Israel's response is an overreaction, appropriate reaction or underreaction.

It's easy to sit on the comfort of your couch in the Palouse and say more boots on the ground and less indiscriminate bombing but more boots on the ground means more dead Israeli soldiers.

They have tried repeatedly to negotiate a lasting peace but it never lasts.

Hamas has to go. Any solution that doesn't include that is a temporary respite before more terrorism and violence. Once Hamas is gone, a two-state solution, curtailing Israeli settlements, etc. can be discussed and possibly implemented.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 5:30 pm
kalm wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:49 pm

Overreactions continue the same cycles.

I don’t pretend to have the answers and who knows what’s ends up working, but a few thoughts.

Cease fire now as am hunger and disease become by by-products.

Less indiscriminate bombing and more boots on the ground to target Hamas and create stability.

Then negotiate a lasting peace that’s either a two-state solution or an even more strictly occupied permanent territory and curtailing of extremist Israeli settlers.
The cycles will continue regardless of the Israeli response until Hamas is tossed out. It doesn't matter if Israel's response is an overreaction, appropriate reaction or underreaction.

It's easy to sit on the comfort of your couch in the Palouse and say more boots on the ground and less indiscriminate bombing but more boots on the ground means more dead Israeli soldiers.

They have tried repeatedly to negotiate a lasting peace but it never lasts.

Hamas has to go. Any solution that doesn't include that is a temporary respite before more terrorism and violence. Once Hamas is gone, a two-state solution, curtailing Israeli settlements, etc. can be discussed and possibly implemented.
We’re in agreement on Hamas. And it’s easy to for both of us to play arm chair strategist. Be it the Northern Palouse or the confluence of the Willamette.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 10:24 am Have we forgotten why Israel invaded Gaza? This is a humanitarian crisis that Hamas started.

I think Israel should agree to peace one final time. Let the Palestinians and the world know that if Hamas violates that peace again there will be no mercy. Gaza will be razed and turned into oceanfront hotels & condos.
Ain't happening, Bibi needs war to stay out of prison and he needs Hamas to keep that war alive - which it will for at least another 50 years thanks to Hamas and Bibi having created an whole new generation of freedom fighters/terrorists. No solution is possible
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

This is fucked up and the US and Biden admin are complicit. The Netanyahu government is currently the most powerful terrorist organization in the world.

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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by houndawg »

kalm wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:09 am This is fucked up and the US and Biden admin are complicit. The Netanyahu government is currently the most powerful terrorist organization in the world.

Paying for the relief effort out our annual donation to Israel, starting with cost of the air drops and building the pier would be a nice start.
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by houndawg »

BDKJMU wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:34 pm Biden asked for 14.5 billion Israel aid package.
House passes 17.6 billion Israel aid package.
Biden threatens veto. Shave off the extra 3 billion and call his bluff..
Give them the 17.6 and Israel pays for the relief effort from that aid package
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by Caribbean Hen »

kalm wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:49 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:17 pm

Is it an overreaction? What you and many others would consider an acceptable reaction would in all likelihood just continue the cycle of terror and death. If I'm Israel I'm not playing that game anymore.

It's possible that thousands of innocent deaths now will save ten times as many innocent lives in the future.

How do you propose to end the cycle?
Overreactions continue the same cycles.

I don’t pretend to have the answers and who knows what’s ends up working, but a few thoughts.

Cease fire now as am hunger and disease become by by-products.

Less indiscriminate bombing and more boots on the ground to target Hamas and create stability.

Then negotiate a lasting peace that’s either a two-state solution or an even more strictly occupied permanent territory and curtailing of extremist Israeli settlers.
I’m with 88

Joey Rotten should stop meddling with Israel and let them finish the job so doesn’t happen again. And he should let Israel pay for it

If we had social media in 1941 no telling what the world would like today, but surely Kalm would be picking the weeds on some Japanese guys land
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Re: Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

Post by kalm »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:13 am
kalm wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:49 pm

Overreactions continue the same cycles.

I don’t pretend to have the answers and who knows what’s ends up working, but a few thoughts.

Cease fire now as am hunger and disease become by by-products.

Less indiscriminate bombing and more boots on the ground to target Hamas and create stability.

Then negotiate a lasting peace that’s either a two-state solution or an even more strictly occupied permanent territory and curtailing of extremist Israeli settlers.
I’m with 88

Joey Rotten should stop meddling with Israel and let them finish the job so doesn’t happen again. And he should let Israel pay for it

If we had social media in 1941 no telling what the world would like today, but surely Kalm would be picking the weeds on some Japanese guys land
So you’re in favor of genocide today but would have been against it in 1941?

Weird.
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