https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... hZVyPbbHMkAmerica’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that same time period.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.
The taxes are too damned high!
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The taxes are too damned high!
Not a shocker...
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
A wealth tax still won't balance the budget.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Not immediately. And there are other options like a financial transaction tax.... or the wealthy paying the actual rate.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Throw out the entire US tac code and go to a flat tax.
The 1st ‘x’ $$ you earn in is deductible.
Any $$ earned above ‘x’ is taxed at ‘y’ percent, no deductions.
SIMPLE.
The 1st ‘x’ $$ you earn in is deductible.
Any $$ earned above ‘x’ is taxed at ‘y’ percent, no deductions.
SIMPLE.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
So simple it will never happen.BDKJMU wrote:Throw out the entire US tac code and go to a flat tax.
The 1st ‘x’ $$ you earn in is deductible.
Any $$ earned above ‘x’ is taxed at ‘y’ percent, no deductions.
SIMPLE.
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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Even a caveman could do it.Winterborn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:53 amSo simple it will never happen.BDKJMU wrote:Throw out the entire US tac code and go to a flat tax.
The 1st ‘x’ $$ you earn in is deductible.
Any $$ earned above ‘x’ is taxed at ‘y’ percent, no deductions.
SIMPLE.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Why should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
It can be targeted toward more speculative transactions...the casino side of Wall Street that creates bubbles and instability.UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:58 amWhy should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
Of course you already knew that.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:58 amWhy should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
Who knew 88 was so naïve?
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
you'd like Illinois's flat tax.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
apparently you're naïve as well...kalm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:18 amIt can be targeted toward more speculative transactions...the casino side of Wall Street that creates bubbles and instability.UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:58 am
Why should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
Of course you already knew that.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Learn me. I’m all ears.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
For now. I don't think the overlords of Madiganistan are done trying to ram through a progressive tax.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Did I need a winky emoji?AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:56 amUNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:58 am
Why should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
Who knew 88 was so naïve?
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
too subtle?
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
The key word in your statement is "can". It CAN be, but WILL it? Or will they fix a crack in the windshield with a sledgehammer, as per usual? Will they take a mile when they need an inch? Etc., etc....
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
THIS!!!UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:58 amWhy should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
According to Forbes the 724 billionaires in America are worth $4.4 trillion. In FY2020 the feds ran a deficit of $3.3 trillion. In FY2019 it was $984 billion. So even if you use the 2019 number before Congress started wasting more money due to the pandemic we could take EVERYTHING the billionaires have and balance the budget for about 4 years. Then what do we do? Who do we take it from then?
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Progressivism is cancer
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
What's the saying? "Eventually you run out of other peoples' money"? Thank you, Mrs. Thatcher...HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:00 pmAccording to Forbes the 724 billionaires in America are worth $4.4 trillion. In FY2020 the feds ran a deficit of $3.3 trillion. In FY2019 it was $984 billion. So even if you use the 2019 number before Congress started wasting more money due to the pandemic we could take EVERYTHING the billionaires have and balance the budget for about 4 years. Then what do we do? Who do we take it from then?
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
When they run out of billionaires they'll move on to millionaires. When they run out of them, they'll move on to hundred thousandaires. When they run out of them, they'll either move down another notch or just keep printing money until we resemble the Weimar Republic in the early 1920's. Then the wheels will fall off the bus. On the bright side we will have achieved equality. We'll all be equally miserable waiting in the breadline.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:31 pmWhat's the saying? "Eventually you run out of other peoples' money"? Thank you, Mrs. Thatcher...HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:00 pm
According to Forbes the 724 billionaires in America are worth $4.4 trillion. In FY2020 the feds ran a deficit of $3.3 trillion. In FY2019 it was $984 billion. So even if you use the 2019 number before Congress started wasting more money due to the pandemic we could take EVERYTHING the billionaires have and balance the budget for about 4 years. Then what do we do? Who do we take it from then?
Last edited by UNI88 on Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
In 1971, Alvin Lee of Ten Years After penned the song “I’d love to change the world”...
In it, he wrote the words “Tax the Rich, Feed the poor...til there are no rich no more...”
People thought he was writing his political thoughts, but he wrote later in life that it was more a plea for ideas on how to fix what he saw as wrong in the world...
So the left loves that line about taxing the rich...but they fail to see that Alvin saw the end result...that there would soon be “no rich no more”...
In it, he wrote the words “Tax the Rich, Feed the poor...til there are no rich no more...”
People thought he was writing his political thoughts, but he wrote later in life that it was more a plea for ideas on how to fix what he saw as wrong in the world...
So the left loves that line about taxing the rich...but they fail to see that Alvin saw the end result...that there would soon be “no rich no more”...
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
JFC...
Did I say it solved all of our problems?
Can you water carriers at least agree they should pay above 1.2% of their income?
Hey! Maybe we should all just make billions then none of us would have to pay taxes.
Did I say it solved all of our problems?
Can you water carriers at least agree they should pay above 1.2% of their income?
Hey! Maybe we should all just make billions then none of us would have to pay taxes.
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
To add to this - the feds spend about $7 million per minute. Jeff Bezos is worth $186.2 billion. So if we take everything Jeff has we can fund the government for a little over 18 days.HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:00 pmAccording to Forbes the 724 billionaires in America are worth $4.4 trillion. In FY2020 the feds ran a deficit of $3.3 trillion. In FY2019 it was $984 billion. So even if you use the 2019 number before Congress started wasting more money due to the pandemic we could take EVERYTHING the billionaires have and balance the budget for about 4 years. Then what do we do? Who do we take it from then?
Let's do it!
If fascism ever comes to America, it will come in the name of liberalism. Ronald Reagan, 1975.
Progressivism is cancer
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Progressivism is cancer
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Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Income or wealth? The ProPublica piece estimates their taxes on wealth…
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.