America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that same time period.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.
HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:37 am
A wealth tax still won't balance the budget.
Not immediately. And there are other options like a financial transaction tax.... or the wealthy paying the actual rate.
Change the law.
Good luck.
Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:49 am
by BDKJMU
Throw out the entire US tac code and go to a flat tax.
The 1st ‘x’ $$ you earn in is deductible.
Any $$ earned above ‘x’ is taxed at ‘y’ percent, no deductions.
SIMPLE.
Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:53 am
by Winterborn
BDKJMU wrote:Throw out the entire US tac code and go to a flat tax.
The 1st ‘x’ $$ you earn in is deductible.
Any $$ earned above ‘x’ is taxed at ‘y’ percent, no deductions.
SIMPLE.
BDKJMU wrote:Throw out the entire US tac code and go to a flat tax.
The 1st ‘x’ $$ you earn in is deductible.
Any $$ earned above ‘x’ is taxed at ‘y’ percent, no deductions.
SIMPLE.
HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:37 am
A wealth tax still won't balance the budget.
Not immediately. And there are other options like a financial transaction tax.... or the wealthy paying the actual rate.
Why should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
Not immediately. And there are other options like a financial transaction tax.... or the wealthy paying the actual rate.
Why should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
It can be targeted toward more speculative transactions...the casino side of Wall Street that creates bubbles and instability.
Not immediately. And there are other options like a financial transaction tax.... or the wealthy paying the actual rate.
Why should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
Who knew 88 was so naïve?
Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:58 am
by Skjellyfetti
BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:49 am
Throw out the entire US tac code and go to a flat tax.
The 1st ‘x’ $$ you earn in is deductible.
Any $$ earned above ‘x’ is taxed at ‘y’ percent, no deductions.
SIMPLE.
Why should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
It can be targeted toward more speculative transactions...the casino side of Wall Street that creates bubbles and instability.
BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:49 am
Throw out the entire US tac code and go to a flat tax.
The 1st ‘x’ $$ you earn in is deductible.
Any $$ earned above ‘x’ is taxed at ‘y’ percent, no deductions.
SIMPLE.
you'd like Illinois's flat tax.
For now. I don't think the overlords of Madiganistan are done trying to ram through a progressive tax.
UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:58 am
Why should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
The key word in your statement is "can". It CAN be, but WILL it? Or will they fix a crack in the windshield with a sledgehammer, as per usual? Will they take a mile when they need an inch? Etc., etc....
Not immediately. And there are other options like a financial transaction tax.... or the wealthy paying the actual rate.
Why should anyone pay tax on the increased value of something that they haven't sold? If they haven't sold it, it hasn't put any money in their pocket yet so they would need to take money from another source to pay the taxes on the increased value.
Rather than making it harder to invest, why don't we teach people how to invest so that more people can take benefit from the market? No, that's a horrible idea. Let's tax transactions, limit 401k's and disincentivize investment to make people more reliant on the government.
HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:37 am
A wealth tax still won't balance the budget.
Not immediately. And there are other options like a financial transaction tax.... or the wealthy paying the actual rate.
According to Forbes the 724 billionaires in America are worth $4.4 trillion. In FY2020 the feds ran a deficit of $3.3 trillion. In FY2019 it was $984 billion. So even if you use the 2019 number before Congress started wasting more money due to the pandemic we could take EVERYTHING the billionaires have and balance the budget for about 4 years. Then what do we do? Who do we take it from then?
Not immediately. And there are other options like a financial transaction tax.... or the wealthy paying the actual rate.
According to Forbes the 724 billionaires in America are worth $4.4 trillion. In FY2020 the feds ran a deficit of $3.3 trillion. In FY2019 it was $984 billion. So even if you use the 2019 number before Congress started wasting more money due to the pandemic we could take EVERYTHING the billionaires have and balance the budget for about 4 years. Then what do we do? Who do we take it from then?
What's the saying? "Eventually you run out of other peoples' money"? Thank you, Mrs. Thatcher...
HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:00 pm
According to Forbes the 724 billionaires in America are worth $4.4 trillion. In FY2020 the feds ran a deficit of $3.3 trillion. In FY2019 it was $984 billion. So even if you use the 2019 number before Congress started wasting more money due to the pandemic we could take EVERYTHING the billionaires have and balance the budget for about 4 years. Then what do we do? Who do we take it from then?
What's the saying? "Eventually you run out of other peoples' money"? Thank you, Mrs. Thatcher...
When they run out of billionaires they'll move on to millionaires. When they run out of them, they'll move on to hundred thousandaires. When they run out of them, they'll either move down another notch or just keep printing money until we resemble the Weimar Republic in the early 1920's. Then the wheels will fall off the bus. On the bright side we will have achieved equality. We'll all be equally miserable waiting in the breadline.
Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:50 pm
by Col Hogan
In 1971, Alvin Lee of Ten Years After penned the song “I’d love to change the world”...
In it, he wrote the words “Tax the Rich, Feed the poor...til there are no rich no more...”
People thought he was writing his political thoughts, but he wrote later in life that it was more a plea for ideas on how to fix what he saw as wrong in the world...
So the left loves that line about taxing the rich...but they fail to see that Alvin saw the end result...that there would soon be “no rich no more”...
Re: The taxes are too damned high!
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:06 pm
by kalm
JFC...
Did I say it solved all of our problems?
Can you water carriers at least agree they should pay above 1.2% of their income?
Hey! Maybe we should all just make billions then none of us would have to pay taxes.
Not immediately. And there are other options like a financial transaction tax.... or the wealthy paying the actual rate.
According to Forbes the 724 billionaires in America are worth $4.4 trillion. In FY2020 the feds ran a deficit of $3.3 trillion. In FY2019 it was $984 billion. So even if you use the 2019 number before Congress started wasting more money due to the pandemic we could take EVERYTHING the billionaires have and balance the budget for about 4 years. Then what do we do? Who do we take it from then?
To add to this - the feds spend about $7 million per minute. Jeff Bezos is worth $186.2 billion. So if we take everything Jeff has we can fund the government for a little over 18 days.
