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Seriously? The Republican Party wants to throw a stick in the spokes on THIS?

I think the debt limit should be eliminated. It’s obviously a joke that’s not followed anyways….

Democrats hold a lot of blame here. When you say for 10 months that you're going to pass a $3.5T (closer to $5T) spending plan and that the GOP can go blow chunks because they don't need them and will pass it through reconciliation, it's crocodile tears to then turn around and expect the opposing party to join hands and sing a bipartisan hosanna when it comes time for the debt limit increase. Pandering to the party extremes rather than working to create bipartisanship creates situations like these. For a party with such slim majorities the Dems have played it like they hold a supermajority, and as a result, coupled with Biden's mental deterioration at the top, will see the Dems as the minority in at least one chamber of Congress after 2022. Politics is a strange game.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:22 pm I think the debt limit should be eliminated. It’s obviously a joke that’s not followed anyways….

Agreed, but not getting to argue about this will mean that they might have to argue about something of substance, like say, immigration, or health care. Much easier to leave those in place as wedge issues for future elections and just swat the debt ceiling back and forth.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:24 pm Democrats hold a lot of blame here. When you say for 10 months that you're going to pass a $3.5T (closer to $5T) spending plan and that the GOP can go blow chunks because they don't need them and will pass it through reconciliation, it's crocodile tears to then turn around and expect the opposing party to join hands and sing a bipartisan hosanna when it comes time for the debt limit increase. Pandering to the party extremes rather than working to create bipartisanship creates situations like these. For a party with such slim majorities the Dems have played it like they hold a supermajority, and as a result, coupled with Biden's mental deterioration at the top, will see the Dems as the minority in at least one chamber of Congress after 2022. Politics is a strange game.

I don't think the Democrats share any of the blame on this at all. My understanding is that what we are talking about here is paying debts that have already been incurred. Also, Republicans have been fine with telling the Democrats that they can blow chunks in recent years. This is serious. I have got to believe that it won't happen. But opposing raising the debt limit right now is TOTALLY irresponsible. Doing this is just one more indication that the Republican Party is completely whacked.

I spent most of my life opposing the Democratic Party as the greater of two evils. But things have clearly changed. The Republican Party really needs to be eliminated as a factor. It's bad.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:24 pm Democrats hold a lot of blame here. When you say for 10 months that you're going to pass a $3.5T (closer to $5T) spending plan and that the GOP can go blow chunks because they don't need them and will pass it through reconciliation, it's crocodile tears to then turn around and expect the opposing party to join hands and sing a bipartisan hosanna when it comes time for the debt limit increase. Pandering to the party extremes rather than working to create bipartisanship creates situations like these. For a party with such slim majorities the Dems have played it like they hold a supermajority, and as a result, coupled with Biden's mental deterioration at the top, will see the Dems as the minority in at least one chamber of Congress after 2022. Politics is a strange game.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:24 pm coupled with Biden's mental deterioration at the top,

There continues to be no evidence of mental deterioration on Biden's part. I think he screwed up with Afghanistan and that hurt him. But this thing of acting like there is some kind of cognitive issue with Biden is nonsense.

The biggest problem with the Democrats right now, in addition to Biden doing what he did with Afghanistan, is that the progressives are over-reaching.

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:37 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:24 pm Democrats hold a lot of blame here. When you say for 10 months that you're going to pass a $3.5T (closer to $5T) spending plan and that the GOP can go blow chunks because they don't need them and will pass it through reconciliation, it's crocodile tears to then turn around and expect the opposing party to join hands and sing a bipartisan hosanna when it comes time for the debt limit increase. Pandering to the party extremes rather than working to create bipartisanship creates situations like these. For a party with such slim majorities the Dems have played it like they hold a supermajority, and as a result, coupled with Biden's mental deterioration at the top, will see the Dems as the minority in at least one chamber of Congress after 2022. Politics is a strange game.

I don't think the Democrats share any of the blame on this at all. My understanding is that what we are talking about here is paying debts that have already been incurred. Also, Republicans have been fine with telling the Democrats that they can blow chunks in recent years. This is serious. I have got to believe that it won't happen. But opposing raising the debt limit right now is TOTALLY irresponsible. Doing this is just one more indication that the Republican Party is completely whacked.

I spent most of my life opposing the Democratic Party as the greater of two evils. But things have clearly changed. The Republican Party really needs to be eliminated as a factor. It's bad.

We've known since 2019 that the debt limit would have to be raised now. That's about a 2 year window. The Democrats have known since January that they would have to raise it, and they've known since January that they could raise it whenever they wanted to via the reconciliation process, which they can still do now, and not have a single GOP vote for it. It's not like the GOP hasn't acted like this before, they've been doing this for more than a decade now (which is at least half the time you were still a card carrying GOP'er before you went all Hillary on us). To get to this point, this week, and express shock over the GOP's position is just political theater, which both parties appear to be happy to do, at our expense. Supposedly these are all grown-ups there, but they never seem to act as such. What would've been a simple and non-newsworthy matter to raise the debt ceiling via reconciliation with no GOP support months ago has deliberately been push to a brinkmanship debate in the effort to win the headline contest of who gets most of the blame for a political disaster.

We can debate what percentage of the blame goes to each party, but to pretend that this is all the making of just one party is patently absurd, which coincidentally enough describes the vast majority of your posts over the past few years.

Funny how the Dems were bipartisan and raised the Debt Ceiling for Trump several times, but the GOP does everything they can to hurt Biden, even if the country suffers. But that is the typical GOP action.

I can't believe that anyone would seriously believe that the Democrats, with their penchant for overspending on frivolous stuff, wouldn't know that the debt ceiling thingie was going to be an issue. At the rate they're printing $$, it's not going to be worth a Templeton's fart after eating what Wilbur leaves. SMH....

dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:05 pm Funny how the Dems were bipartisan and raised the Debt Ceiling for Trump several times, but the GOP does everything they can to hurt Biden, even if the country suffers. But that is the typical GOP action.

It is typical, the GOP has been doing this since 2010. I don't know why the Democrats were unaware of this until just this week. Seems like something they could've addressed sometime in the past 9 months since they technically don't need the GOP at all. But I guess why waste a crisis, eh?

dbackjon wrote:Funny how the Dems were bipartisan and raised the Debt Ceiling for Trump several times, but the GOP does everything they can to hurt Biden, even if the country suffers. But that is the typical GOP action.

True

The only person in Congress who seems to truly care about deficits is Joe Manchin.

The Trump wing of the GOP sure as hell doesnt

Zero Democrats care (except Manchin)

He’s like a one man Tea Party


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dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:05 pm Funny how the Dems were bipartisan and raised the Debt Ceiling for Trump several times, but the GOP does everything they can to hurt Biden, even if the country suffers. But that is the typical GOP action.

Really? There were no gov’t shutdowns during Trump’s presidency?

So you want “bipartisan”ship when it comes to the debt ceiling, but Dems will gleefully attempt to force through a $3.5T spending bill without a single GOP vote and be perfectly fine with it? Maybe THAT’S why they don’t want to raise the limit? until they’re included in the discussions?

Fellas. This is not a government shutdown they are talking about. This is the United States defaulting on its debt. This is very bad. Threatening to make it happen is very bad. Very irresponsible. This is not a "pox on both their houses" thing. This is the Republicans doing this. I know it's Chique to act like both of the major Parties are just as bad as each other. But that doesn't work here. The Republicans are demonstrating why they need to be eliminated as a factor in what's going on in this country.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:56 pm ...but to pretend that this is all the making of just one party is patently absurd,

No it's not. It's the truth. Everybody knows that the consequences of failing to raise the debt ceiling would be. And it's the Republicans threatening to make that happen. As I said, this is not a "pox on both their houses" thing. The Republican Party is whacked. It needs to be eliminated. It won't be. But any rational person needs to realize that this Party should not be a factor in what's going on in this country.

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:51 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:24 pm coupled with Biden's mental deterioration at the top,

There continues to be no evidence of mental deterioration on Biden's part. I think he screwed up with Afghanistan and that hurt him. But this thing of acting like there is some kind of cognitive issue with Biden is nonsense.

The biggest problem with the Democrats right now, in addition to Biden doing what he did with Afghanistan, is that the progressives are over-reaching.

John StOnge has gone full retard on this thread. He’s just a Democrat shill. Brokeback always was full retard.

SuperHornet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:06 pm I can't believe that anyone would seriously believe that the Democrats, with their penchant for overspending on frivolous stuff, wouldn't know that the debt ceiling thingie was going to be an issue. At the rate they're printing $$, it's not going to be worth a Templeton's fart after eating what Wilbur leaves. SMH....

That’s disgusting, SH!!!

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:30 pm John StOnge has gone full retard on this thread. He’s just a Democrat shill. Brokeback always was full retard.

Yet another thread in which he has gone full retard. The entertainment never stops.

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:30 pm John StOnge has gone full retard on this thread. He’s just a Democrat shill. Brokeback always was full retard.

JSO is the one person whose cognitive abilities are declining quicker than Biden's.

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:37 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:24 pm Democrats hold a lot of blame here. When you say for 10 months that you're going to pass a $3.5T (closer to $5T) spending plan and that the GOP can go blow chunks because they don't need them and will pass it through reconciliation, it's crocodile tears to then turn around and expect the opposing party to join hands and sing a bipartisan hosanna when it comes time for the debt limit increase. Pandering to the party extremes rather than working to create bipartisanship creates situations like these. For a party with such slim majorities the Dems have played it like they hold a supermajority, and as a result, coupled with Biden's mental deterioration at the top, will see the Dems as the minority in at least one chamber of Congress after 2022. Politics is a strange game.

I don't think the Democrats share any of the blame on this at all. My understanding is that what we are talking about here is paying debts that have already been incurred. Also, Republicans have been fine with telling the Democrats that they can blow chunks in recent years. This is serious. I have got to believe that it won't happen. But opposing raising the debt limit right now is TOTALLY irresponsible. Doing this is just one more indication that the Republican Party is completely whacked.

I spent most of my life opposing the Democratic Party as the greater of two evils. But things have clearly changed. The Republican Party really needs to be eliminated as a factor. It's bad.

You aren't thinking logically if you believe the Democrats have none of the blame here. You just aren't being honest with yourself.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:05 pm Funny how the Dems were bipartisan and raised the Debt Ceiling for Trump several times, but the GOP does everything they can to hurt Biden, even if the country suffers. But that is the typical GOP action.

It was raised 2x under Trump and suspended the 2x.


The Dems are no better than the Republicans here. Everything it partisan. Nothing is for the good of the country. It's all about political points these days and not governing.

I'd love to hear JSO give his take on the Human Infrastructure proposal.

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:00 pm Fellas. This is not a government shutdown they are talking about. This is the United States defaulting on its debt. This is very bad. Threatening to make it happen is very bad. Very irresponsible. This is not a "pox on both their houses" thing. This is the Republicans doing this. I know it's Chique to act like both of the major Parties are just as bad as each other. But that doesn't work here. The Republicans are demonstrating why they need to be eliminated as a factor in what's going on in this country.

Maybe Democrats should just shut up and #DoTheirJob



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