Kim Potter Trial

[89Hen]

Didn't see a thread on this one. This has to be a really hard trial by jury case IMO. In a way it would seem like the prosecution and defense's jobs are to teach law to 12 regular people. It's going to be hard for either side to prove/disprove "recklessly" and "culpable negligence" unless Potter has a history of it, which she doesn't seem to have. Both sides have already stated she meant to draw her taser so that's all it boils down to.

I don't see them being able to convict on first degree, but wouldn't be surprised to see a second degree conviction.

[SuperHornet]

I forget. Was this the one where the drunk cop went into the wrong apartment and shot an "intruder?"

[89Hen]

No this is the cop who pulled her gun when she thought she pulled her taser. Shot the guy in his car, he pulled away, crashed and died (from the gunshot not the crash).

[dbackjon]

Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

[Winterborn]

Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

I agree with the bolded.

I can see second degree fitting. But that is admitting that I no only the minimum about the case and looking at MN Statutes. A big part (and I do not know much about this particular case here) is to what level Wright was resisting arrest (justifiable level of response).

[UNI88]

Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

I agree with the bolded.

I can see second degree fitting. But that is admitting that I no only the minimum about the case and looking at MN Statutes. A big part (and I do not know much about this particular case here) is to what level Wright was resisting arrest (justifiable level of response).

Another aspect of this that I think people are too quick to judge is that no one knows how they or someone else will react in an extreme pressure situation. You can interview and test for it but you can never be sure until they're actually in a situation. How can law enforcement hire people who won't "pull a gun and fire it thinking it's a taser" if they can't be certain?

We're human, we make mistakes and sometimes we react in error under pressure.

[GannonFan]

Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

I agree, she should never be an officer again and she should get some penalty for what she did. I think the chance for overreach, though, on the charges, will ultimately piss people off. I don't see the first degree manslaughter sticking. Heck, the way the law is written the second degree was already going to take some work to prove. What she did was wrong and negligent, but I don't see where she knowingly put the deceased in undue danger. She's not going to do a lot of prison time, and that will certainly leave many feeling unhappy.

[89Hen]

Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

I agree, she should never be an officer again and she should get some penalty for what she did. I think the chance for overreach, though, on the charges, will ultimately piss people off. I don't see the first degree manslaughter sticking. Heck, the way the law is written the second degree was already going to take some work to prove. What she did was wrong and negligent, but I don't see where she knowingly put the deceased in undue danger. She's not going to do a lot of prison time, and that will certainly leave many feeling unhappy.

That's pretty much my take. It's a terrible situation from every single aspect of this. If it were a white kid she shot, this wouldn't probably be news, just a bad story of a awful situation.

[kalm]

I agree with the bolded.

I can see second degree fitting. But that is admitting that I no only the minimum about the case and looking at MN Statutes. A big part (and I do not know much about this particular case here) is to what level Wright was resisting arrest (justifiable level of response).

Another aspect of this that I think people are too quick to judge is that no one knows how they or someone else will react in an extreme pressure situation. You can interview and test for it but you can never be sure until they're actually in a situation. How can law enforcement hire people who won't "pull a gun and fire it thinking it's a taser" if they can't be certain?

We're human, we make mistakes and sometimes we react in error under pressure.

Very true.

[AZGrizFan]

What happened to her happened in an extremely stressful situation under duress. She’s pretty much already ruined her life. Putting her in prison isn’t going to “solve” anything.

[Winterborn]

What happened to her happened in an extremely stressful situation under duress. She’s pretty much already ruined her life. Putting her in prison isn’t going to “solve” anything.

For many people it is not about solving anything any more (and doing what is right) but about paying back 10 fold. Which is highly unfortunate in that it just perpetuates the hard feelings on both sides.

[clenz]

What happened to her happened in an extremely stressful situation under duress. She’s pretty much already ruined her life. Putting her in prison isn’t going to “solve” anything.

Why send anyone to jail then? If the publicity of a crime/having it show up when their name is searched is all it takes for justice then there isn't a reason for anyone to be in jail.

Cops are trained to handle stressful situations. This isn't Joe Fuckbag in an argument doing this. It is an officer who has gone through years of training. Years of certification. Her job is literally to handle stressful situations.

She didn't mean to kill him, but she did. She somehow managed to not realize the difference in a stun gun and a real gun - something they train on - and killed someone because of it.

It wasn't premeditated or done out of spite (and likely racism like Chauvin). However, if "she feels bad and we think her life is ruined" is all it takes to avoid jail then holy shit we have a lot of people to let out of jail in the coming weeks.

[AZGrizFan]

What happened to her happened in an extremely stressful situation under duress. She’s pretty much already ruined her life. Putting her in prison isn’t going to “solve” anything.

Why send anyone to jail then? If the publicity of a crime/having it show up when their name is searched is all it takes for justice then there isn't a reason for anyone to be in jail.

Cops are trained to handle stressful situations. This isn't Joe Fuckbag in an argument doing this. It is an officer who has gone through years of training. Years of certification. Her job is literally to handle stressful situations.

She didn't mean to kill him, but she did. She somehow managed to not realize the difference in a stun gun and a real gun - something they train on - and killed someone because of it.

It wasn't premeditated or done out of spite (and likely racism like Chauvin). However, if "she feels bad and we think her life is ruined" is all it takes to avoid jail then holy shit we have a lot of people to let out of jail in the coming weeks.

yeah, I’m aware of the situation. She’s not a “criminal”—she made a horrible mistake. She’s not the douchebag with his knee on the guys neck for 8 minutes. She didn’t plow her SUV through a parade. She didn’t chase him down and shoot him with a shotgun and film the whole thing. If we don’t/can’t differentiate between what she did and what ACTUAL criminals do, then we’re pretty much fucked as a society.

Which we may be anyways, given the direction shit is headed.

[Pwns]

What happened to her happened in an extremely stressful situation under duress. She’s pretty much already ruined her life. Putting her in prison isn’t going to “solve” anything.

Why send anyone to jail then? If the publicity of a crime/having it show up when their name is searched is all it takes for justice then there isn't a reason for anyone to be in jail.

Cops are trained to handle stressful situations. This isn't Joe Fuckbag in an argument doing this. It is an officer who has gone through years of training. Years of certification. Her job is literally to handle stressful situations.

She didn't mean to kill him, but she did. She somehow managed to not realize the difference in a stun gun and a real gun - something they train on - and killed someone because of it.

It wasn't premeditated or done out of spite (and likely racism like Chauvin). However, if "she feels bad and we think her life is ruined" is all it takes to avoid jail then holy shit we have a lot of people to let out of jail in the coming weeks.

I think we could do a better job in general of using the "how much of a danger is this person to people" standard when giving sentences. Yes, that includes Jussie Smollett.

[kalm]

Why send anyone to jail then? If the publicity of a crime/having it show up when their name is searched is all it takes for justice then there isn't a reason for anyone to be in jail.

Cops are trained to handle stressful situations. This isn't Joe Fuckbag in an argument doing this. It is an officer who has gone through years of training. Years of certification. Her job is literally to handle stressful situations.

She didn't mean to kill him, but she did. She somehow managed to not realize the difference in a stun gun and a real gun - something they train on - and killed someone because of it.

It wasn't premeditated or done out of spite (and likely racism like Chauvin). However, if "she feels bad and we think her life is ruined" is all it takes to avoid jail then holy shit we have a lot of people to let out of jail in the coming weeks.

yeah, I’m aware of the situation. She’s not a “criminal”—she made a horrible mistake. She’s not the douchebag with his knee on the guys neck for 8 minutes. She didn’t plow her SUV through a parade. She didn’t chase him down and shoot him with a shotgun and film the whole thing. If we don’t/can’t differentiate between what she did and what ACTUAL criminals do, then we’re pretty much fucked as a society.

Which we may be anyways, given the direction shit is headed.

A neighbor kid growing up, rolled his motorcycle on windy gravel roads and killed his buddy riding on back behind him.

He got manslaughter and did 6 months in jail.

Wasn’t a criminal before or after. Accidents happen. Sometimes punishment is an unfortunate consequence for a huge mistake.

[Ivytalk]

What does Nancy Grace think?

[Ibanez]

Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

I agree, she should never be an officer again and she should get some penalty for what she did. I think the chance for overreach, though, on the charges, will ultimately piss people off. I don't see the first degree manslaughter sticking. Heck, the way the law is written the second degree was already going to take some work to prove. What she did was wrong and negligent, but I don't see where she knowingly put the deceased in undue danger. She's not going to do a lot of prison time, and that will certainly leave many feeling unhappy.

This is what I think as well. She made a terrible mistake under pressure. Sadly, we're in a world where ANYTHING bad that happens to a minority is b/c of racism. She made a terrible mistake and race probably never entered her mind.

[CID1990]

I’m fine with it if she serves some time, and also fine with it if she doesn’t.

I imagine that she has a bunch of coworkers with stories of her fumbling around at the range who probably weren’t terribly bowled over by news of the incident.

I knew a few just like her… in training they were the ones who you mentally identified as those who you wouldn’t want to go on a hot call with. Usually, they are happy to take a job indoors in the air conditioning and the problem is solved. Other times, they are insistent on being on the street and heaven help you if you try to keep a protected class off the street.

Take your pick …. civil/vicarious liability, or losing EEO lawsuits. At least in this instance, the fault lies with her, so looks like her department made the right choice risking something like this by allowing her on the street.

Cynical choices - gotta love em


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[89Hen]

yeah, I’m aware of the situation. She’s not a “criminal”—she made a horrible mistake. She’s not the douchebag with his knee on the guys neck for 8 minutes. She didn’t plow her SUV through a parade. She didn’t chase him down and shoot him with a shotgun and film the whole thing. If we don’t/can’t differentiate between what she did and what ACTUAL criminals do, then we’re pretty much fucked as a society.

Which we may be anyways, given the direction shit is headed.

A neighbor kid growing up, rolled his motorcycle on windy gravel roads and killed his buddy riding on back behind him.

He got manslaughter and did 6 months in jail.

Wasn’t a criminal before or after. Accidents happen. Sometimes punishment is an unfortunate consequence for a huge mistake.

The Colorado truck driver involved in a pileup that killed four and injured six on an interstate in 2019 got emotional when he addressed the court before receiving a sentence of 110 years in prison...

"I am not a criminal," he said. "I am not a murderer. I am not a killer. When I look at my charges, we are talking about a murderer, which is not me. I have never thought about hurting anybody in my entire life."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-tru ... sentencing

[Winterborn]

The Colorado truck driver involved in a pileup that killed four and injured six on an interstate in 2019 got emotional when he addressed the court before receiving a sentence of 110 years in prison...

"I am not a criminal," he said. "I am not a murderer. I am not a killer. When I look at my charges, we are talking about a murderer, which is not me. I have never thought about hurting anybody in my entire life."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-tru ... sentencing

Doing 85mph down a mountain in a 45mph zone, with a full load of lumber, makes him not only an idiot but also criminally stupid. His brakes could of been in perfect condition and slamming on them at that speed, with that load, isn't going to do much but make a cloud of smoke and burn them out almost immediately. There isn't a brake system on the road that candle that (which is why they make run-off lanes) much heat. My CDL testing covered that situation and the guy I learned from also explained it to me (as should of (did) his company).

I would agree with the judge that he is not 110 years guilty, but he is definitely at fault.

[kalm]

A neighbor kid growing up, rolled his motorcycle on windy gravel roads and killed his buddy riding on back behind him.

He got manslaughter and did 6 months in jail.

Wasn’t a criminal before or after. Accidents happen. Sometimes punishment is an unfortunate consequence for a huge mistake.

The Colorado truck driver involved in a pileup that killed four and injured six on an interstate in 2019 got emotional when he addressed the court before receiving a sentence of 110 years in prison...

"I am not a criminal," he said. "I am not a murderer. I am not a killer. When I look at my charges, we are talking about a murderer, which is not me. I have never thought about hurting anybody in my entire life."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-tru ... sentencing

Well he was going 85 and probably tailgating. I’ve warned you about aggressive driving before.


(Yeah that punishment seems ridiculously excessive, but that’s another debate. Still doesn’t change what I said)

[GannonFan]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-tru ... sentencing

Doing 85mph down a mountain in a 45mph zone, with a full load of lumber, makes him not only an idiot but also criminally stupid. His brakes could of been in perfect condition and slamming on them at that speed, with that load, isn't going to do much but make a cloud of smoke and burn them out almost immediately. There isn't a brake system on the road that candle that (which is why they make run-off lanes) much heat. My CDL testing covered that situation and the guy I learned from also explained it to me (as should of (did) his company).

I would agree with the judge that he is not 110 years guilty, but he is definitely at fault.

Yup, I agree. That's a case where some punishment (jail) is certainly merited. 110 years is just absurd.

[Winterborn]

Doing 85mph down a mountain in a 45mph zone, with a full load of lumber, makes him not only an idiot but also criminally stupid. His brakes could of been in perfect condition and slamming on them at that speed, with that load, isn't going to do much but make a cloud of smoke and burn them out almost immediately. There isn't a brake system on the road that candle that (which is why they make run-off lanes) much heat. My CDL testing covered that situation and the guy I learned from also explained it to me (as should of (did) his company).

I would agree with the judge that he is not 110 years guilty, but he is definitely at fault.

Yup, I agree. That's a case where some punishment (jail) is certainly merited. 110 years is just absurd.

He had to be pushing 80K GVW and then going down a mountain? I have been in a spot where I came up too fast to a stop sign with a tandem axle truck loaded with grain and wound up blowing through it. Luckily I was at a gravel/dirt road in the middle of nowhere ND and nobody was coming (and I was all of 16). Learned that brakes are not to be taken for granted.

I remember taking a vacation growing up to Colorado and Wyoming. Dad (drove over the road for a bit) explaining to us kids why we were in the slow lane and getting passed all the time. He stated that in a conversion van, pulling a trailer with camping gear/bikes took a bit more to stop and he didn't want to replace the brakes after the trip when we just installed new ones. He put it in 3rd gear and let the engine help slow us down and then used the brakes to keep the engine rpms lower. Brakes were happy, dad was happy and us kids were happy not to have to change brakes when we came back home (or at the nearest auto parts store as Dad would of made us do it too).

Dad also told us the story of Falling Rock and why there were signs everywhere for him....

[kalm]

Yup, I agree. That's a case where some punishment (jail) is certainly merited. 110 years is just absurd.

He had to be pushing 80K GVW and then going down a mountain? I have been in a spot where I came up too fast to a stop sign with a tandem axle truck loaded with grain and wound up blowing through it. Luckily I was at a gravel/dirt road in the middle of nowhere ND and nobody was coming (and I was all of 16). Learned that brakes are not to be taken for granted.

I remember taking a vacation growing up to Colorado and Wyoming. Dad (drove over the road for a bit) explaining to us kids why we were in the slow lane and getting passed all the time. He stated that in a conversion van, pulling a trailer with camping gear/bikes took a bit more to stop and he didn't want to replace the brakes after the trip when we just installed new ones. He put it in 3rd gear and let the engine help slow us down and then used the brakes to keep the engine rpms lower. Brakes were happy, dad was happy and us kids were happy not to have to change brakes when we came back home (or at the nearest auto parts store as Dad would of made us do it too).

Dad also told us the story of Falling Rock and why there were signs everywhere for him....

One of my all time favorites! The family rolls their eyes every time I see the signs reminding me to tell it.

[Baldy]

Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

Even dback can get one right from time to time.