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dbackjon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:54 pm Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:46 pm

dbackjon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:54 pm Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

I agree with the bolded.

I can see second degree fitting. But that is admitting that I no only the minimum about the case and looking at MN Statutes. A big part (and I do not know much about this particular case here) is to what level Wright was resisting arrest (justifiable level of response).

dbackjon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:54 pm Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:58 pm

dbackjon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:54 pm Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

I agree, she should never be an officer again and she should get some penalty for what she did. I think the chance for overreach, though, on the charges, will ultimately piss people off. I don't see the first degree manslaughter sticking. Heck, the way the law is written the second degree was already going to take some work to prove. What she did was wrong and negligent, but I don't see where she knowingly put the deceased in undue danger. She's not going to do a lot of prison time, and that will certainly leave many feeling unhappy.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:56 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:46 pm

I agree with the bolded.

I can see second degree fitting. But that is admitting that I no only the minimum about the case and looking at MN Statutes. A big part (and I do not know much about this particular case here) is to what level Wright was resisting arrest (justifiable level of response).

Another aspect of this that I think people are too quick to judge is that no one knows how they or someone else will react in an extreme pressure situation. You can interview and test for it but you can never be sure until they're actually in a situation. How can law enforcement hire people who won't "pull a gun and fire it thinking it's a taser" if they can't be certain?

We're human, we make mistakes and sometimes we react in error under pressure.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pm What happened to her happened in an extremely stressful situation under duress. She’s pretty much already ruined her life. Putting her in prison isn’t going to “solve” anything.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pm What happened to her happened in an extremely stressful situation under duress. She’s pretty much already ruined her life. Putting her in prison isn’t going to “solve” anything.

clenz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:25 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pm What happened to her happened in an extremely stressful situation under duress. She’s pretty much already ruined her life. Putting her in prison isn’t going to “solve” anything.

Why send anyone to jail then? If the publicity of a crime/having it show up when their name is searched is all it takes for justice then there isn't a reason for anyone to be in jail.

Cops are trained to handle stressful situations. This isn't Joe Fuckbag in an argument doing this. It is an officer who has gone through years of training. Years of certification. Her job is literally to handle stressful situations.

She didn't mean to kill him, but she did. She somehow managed to not realize the difference in a stun gun and a real gun - something they train on - and killed someone because of it.

It wasn't premeditated or done out of spite (and likely racism like Chauvin). However, if "she feels bad and we think her life is ruined" is all it takes to avoid jail then holy shit we have a lot of people to let out of jail in the coming weeks.

clenz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:25 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pm What happened to her happened in an extremely stressful situation under duress. She’s pretty much already ruined her life. Putting her in prison isn’t going to “solve” anything.

Why send anyone to jail then? If the publicity of a crime/having it show up when their name is searched is all it takes for justice then there isn't a reason for anyone to be in jail.

Cops are trained to handle stressful situations. This isn't Joe Fuckbag in an argument doing this. It is an officer who has gone through years of training. Years of certification. Her job is literally to handle stressful situations.

She didn't mean to kill him, but she did. She somehow managed to not realize the difference in a stun gun and a real gun - something they train on - and killed someone because of it.

It wasn't premeditated or done out of spite (and likely racism like Chauvin). However, if "she feels bad and we think her life is ruined" is all it takes to avoid jail then holy shit we have a lot of people to let out of jail in the coming weeks.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:01 pm

clenz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:25 pm

Why send anyone to jail then? If the publicity of a crime/having it show up when their name is searched is all it takes for justice then there isn't a reason for anyone to be in jail.

Cops are trained to handle stressful situations. This isn't Joe Fuckbag in an argument doing this. It is an officer who has gone through years of training. Years of certification. Her job is literally to handle stressful situations.

She didn't mean to kill him, but she did. She somehow managed to not realize the difference in a stun gun and a real gun - something they train on - and killed someone because of it.

It wasn't premeditated or done out of spite (and likely racism like Chauvin). However, if "she feels bad and we think her life is ruined" is all it takes to avoid jail then holy shit we have a lot of people to let out of jail in the coming weeks.

yeah, I’m aware of the situation. She’s not a “criminal”—she made a horrible mistake. She’s not the douchebag with his knee on the guys neck for 8 minutes. She didn’t plow her SUV through a parade. She didn’t chase him down and shoot him with a shotgun and film the whole thing. If we don’t/can’t differentiate between what she did and what ACTUAL criminals do, then we’re pretty much fucked as a society.

Which we may be anyways, given the direction shit is headed.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:58 pm

dbackjon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:54 pm Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense

I agree, she should never be an officer again and she should get some penalty for what she did. I think the chance for overreach, though, on the charges, will ultimately piss people off. I don't see the first degree manslaughter sticking. Heck, the way the law is written the second degree was already going to take some work to prove. What she did was wrong and negligent, but I don't see where she knowingly put the deceased in undue danger. She's not going to do a lot of prison time, and that will certainly leave many feeling unhappy.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:21 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:01 pm

yeah, I’m aware of the situation. She’s not a “criminal”—she made a horrible mistake. She’s not the douchebag with his knee on the guys neck for 8 minutes. She didn’t plow her SUV through a parade. She didn’t chase him down and shoot him with a shotgun and film the whole thing. If we don’t/can’t differentiate between what she did and what ACTUAL criminals do, then we’re pretty much fucked as a society.

Which we may be anyways, given the direction shit is headed.

A neighbor kid growing up, rolled his motorcycle on windy gravel roads and killed his buddy riding on back behind him.

He got manslaughter and did 6 months in jail.

Wasn’t a criminal before or after. Accidents happen. Sometimes punishment is an unfortunate consequence for a huge mistake.

The Colorado truck driver involved in a pileup that killed four and injured six on an interstate in 2019 got emotional when he addressed the court before receiving a sentence of 110 years in prison...

"I am not a criminal," he said. "I am not a murderer. I am not a killer. When I look at my charges, we are talking about a murderer, which is not me. I have never thought about hurting anybody in my entire life."

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:49 am

The Colorado truck driver involved in a pileup that killed four and injured six on an interstate in 2019 got emotional when he addressed the court before receiving a sentence of 110 years in prison...

"I am not a criminal," he said. "I am not a murderer. I am not a killer. When I look at my charges, we are talking about a murderer, which is not me. I have never thought about hurting anybody in my entire life."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-tru ... sentencing

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:49 am

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:21 pm

A neighbor kid growing up, rolled his motorcycle on windy gravel roads and killed his buddy riding on back behind him.

He got manslaughter and did 6 months in jail.

Wasn’t a criminal before or after. Accidents happen. Sometimes punishment is an unfortunate consequence for a huge mistake.

The Colorado truck driver involved in a pileup that killed four and injured six on an interstate in 2019 got emotional when he addressed the court before receiving a sentence of 110 years in prison...

"I am not a criminal," he said. "I am not a murderer. I am not a killer. When I look at my charges, we are talking about a murderer, which is not me. I have never thought about hurting anybody in my entire life."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-tru ... sentencing

Winterborn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:07 am

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:49 am



https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-tru ... sentencing

Doing 85mph down a mountain in a 45mph zone, with a full load of lumber, makes him not only an idiot but also criminally stupid. His brakes could of been in perfect condition and slamming on them at that speed, with that load, isn't going to do much but make a cloud of smoke and burn them out almost immediately. There isn't a brake system on the road that candle that (which is why they make run-off lanes) much heat. My CDL testing covered that situation and the guy I learned from also explained it to me (as should of (did) his company).

I would agree with the judge that he is not 110 years guilty, but he is definitely at fault.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:19 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:07 am

Doing 85mph down a mountain in a 45mph zone, with a full load of lumber, makes him not only an idiot but also criminally stupid. His brakes could of been in perfect condition and slamming on them at that speed, with that load, isn't going to do much but make a cloud of smoke and burn them out almost immediately. There isn't a brake system on the road that candle that (which is why they make run-off lanes) much heat. My CDL testing covered that situation and the guy I learned from also explained it to me (as should of (did) his company).

I would agree with the judge that he is not 110 years guilty, but he is definitely at fault.

Yup, I agree. That's a case where some punishment (jail) is certainly merited. 110 years is just absurd.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:31 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:19 am

Yup, I agree. That's a case where some punishment (jail) is certainly merited. 110 years is just absurd.

He had to be pushing 80K GVW and then going down a mountain? I have been in a spot where I came up too fast to a stop sign with a tandem axle truck loaded with grain and wound up blowing through it. Luckily I was at a gravel/dirt road in the middle of nowhere ND and nobody was coming (and I was all of 16). Learned that brakes are not to be taken for granted.

I remember taking a vacation growing up to Colorado and Wyoming. Dad (drove over the road for a bit) explaining to us kids why we were in the slow lane and getting passed all the time. He stated that in a conversion van, pulling a trailer with camping gear/bikes took a bit more to stop and he didn't want to replace the brakes after the trip when we just installed new ones. He put it in 3rd gear and let the engine help slow us down and then used the brakes to keep the engine rpms lower. Brakes were happy, dad was happy and us kids were happy not to have to change brakes when we came back home (or at the nearest auto parts store as Dad would of made us do it too).

Dad also told us the story of Falling Rock and why there were signs everywhere for him....

dbackjon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:54 pm Anyone that pulls a gun and fires it thinking it was taser has no business in law enforcement, and at minimum should get negligent homicide.

It seems clear she didn't mean to fire a gun, but that is not a defense