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Somebody may have started a thread on this already but I don't see it if they did. See https://abcnews4.com/news/beyond-the-po ... ing-claims.

Some things to note:

The allegations pertain to the Georgia Senate runoff election; not the Presidential election.

The allegations involve about 5,000 votes. The Democrat Senatorial candidates won their races by 93,272 and 54,944 votes.

Raffensperger is quoted in the article at saying this:

Ballot harvesting, those are still lawful ballots, they’ve just been handled fraudulently.

That may mean that the votes were legal regardless and it's just an issue of prosecuting the people who transported the ballots. Could be that the numbers would not have changed at all if this did happen and they caught it before the vote counting was done.

Meanwhile, at this point, it's an allegation by a Republican group being investigated. It's not the first time they've had allegations by Republican groups and investigated them. So far the allegations haven't fared well. We'll see what happens this time.

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:26 pm Somebody may have started a thread on this already but I don't see it if they did. See https://abcnews4.com/news/beyond-the-po ... ing-claims.

Some things to note:

The allegations pertain to the Georgia Senate runoff election; not the Presidential election.

The allegations involve about 5,000 votes. The Democrat Senatorial candidates won their races by 93,272 and 54,944 votes.

Raffensperger is quoted in the article at saying this:

Ballot harvesting, those are still lawful ballots, they’ve just been handled fraudulently.

That may mean that the votes were legal regardless and it's just an issue of prosecuting the people who transported the ballots. Could be that the numbers would not have changed at all if this did happen and they caught it before the vote counting was done.

Meanwhile, at this point, it's an allegation by a Republican group being investigated. It's not the first time they've had allegations by Republican groups and investigated them. So far the allegations haven't fared well. We'll see what happens this time.

The dude you are talking about made 45k at $10 per vote. There were another 240 ish as well.

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:26 pm Somebody may have started a thread on this already but I don't see it if they did. See https://abcnews4.com/news/beyond-the-po ... ing-claims.

Some things to note:

The allegations pertain to the Georgia Senate runoff election; not the Presidential election.

The allegations involve about 5,000 votes. The Democrat Senatorial candidates won their races by 93,272 and 54,944 votes.

Raffensperger is quoted in the article at saying this:

Ballot harvesting, those are still lawful ballots, they’ve just been handled fraudulently.

That may mean that the votes were legal regardless and it's just an issue of prosecuting the people who transported the ballots. Could be that the numbers would not have changed at all if this did happen and they caught it before the vote counting was done.

Meanwhile, at this point, it's an allegation by a Republican group being investigated. It's not the first time they've had allegations by Republican groups and investigated them. So far the allegations haven't fared well. We'll see what happens this time.

Just to clarify some inaccuracies first. The article does not say 'about 5,000". It says reports are at least 242 people dropped off over 5,000 ballots. Almost all election complaints (legitimate ones anyway) that come into the SOS are from local election officials, not political groups.

Stacey Abrams and her groups have been ballot harvesting in Georgia for years. Leftist Super PACs and the Donk party have poured tens of millions of dollars into the state running these voter registration/ballot harvesting schemes. They are well organized, well funded, and extremely corrupt. They will pull people off the street, friends of friends, etc., give them a stack of voter registration forms and pay them X number of dollars for every completed registration they return. Some are actually legitimate registrations, but the vast majority are bogus. The problem is that Abrams and her groups just don't care if the registrations are fictitious or not. Once the state kicks out the fraudulent ones, it gives them a perfect opportunity to run to the press and scream 'suppression'.

The true ballot harvesters are the ones who are on the payroll. They're the ones who go door to door registering people, requesting an absentee ballot on their behalf, and going back to their home to "help" them fill it out once it arrives. Drop boxes only made the illegal harvesting schemes more efficient in 2020 elections.

There's no reason why people need to be ballot harvesting. If the last election showed us anything, it's really easy to set up plenty of locations to return ballots and early voting and other things, which even with all of these supposed "voter suppression" legislative changes, that it is very easy for any one person to get a ballot, fill out the ballot, and return the ballot by themselves, especially the last part. There's no legitimate need for ballot harvesting and it only presents potential issues for how those ballots get handled/what happens to them once they leave the voter's hands and before they get to an official ballot drop-off, assuming that they do. There's no reason to have such a gap in election security when there's really no benefit to be had.

One of the few areas where I have moved away from my libertarian streak is with voter ID. The last election saw polling numbers go way up in favor of it, including among minorities and Democrats.

I think with the right privacy safeguards and some hands-off legislation aimed at the executive branch, voter ID would work quite nicely.

One citizen, one ID, one vote. States would still control the particulars of their voting regs but the method of verification would be an approved ID obtained via a citizenship verification. State IDs already have to be Federally compliant for getting on airplanes, etc so it isn’t much of a leap.

The only people still opposing this are white progressives (who think minorities are helpless children) and their minority enablers.


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CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:37 am One of the few areas where I have moved away from my libertarian streak is with voter ID. The last election saw polling numbers go way up in favor of it, including among minorities and Democrats.

I think with the right privacy safeguards and some hands-off legislation aimed at the executive branch, voter ID would work quite nicely.

One citizen, one ID, one vote. States would still control the particulars of their voting regs but the method of verification would be an approved ID obtained via a citizenship verification. State IDs already have to be Federally compliant for getting on airplanes, etc so it isn’t much of a leap.

The only people still opposing this are white progressives (who think minorities are helpless children) and their minority enablers.


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I agree.

Turning in my white progressive badge now…thanks…

Baldy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:53 pm

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:26 pm Somebody may have started a thread on this already but I don't see it if they did. See https://abcnews4.com/news/beyond-the-po ... ing-claims.

Some things to note:

The allegations pertain to the Georgia Senate runoff election; not the Presidential election.

The allegations involve about 5,000 votes. The Democrat Senatorial candidates won their races by 93,272 and 54,944 votes.

Raffensperger is quoted in the article at saying this:



That may mean that the votes were legal regardless and it's just an issue of prosecuting the people who transported the ballots. Could be that the numbers would not have changed at all if this did happen and they caught it before the vote counting was done.

Meanwhile, at this point, it's an allegation by a Republican group being investigated. It's not the first time they've had allegations by Republican groups and investigated them. So far the allegations haven't fared well. We'll see what happens this time.

Just to clarify some inaccuracies first. The article does not say 'about 5,000". It says reports are at least 242 people dropped off over 5,000 ballots. Almost all election complaints (legitimate ones anyway) that come into the SOS are from local election officials, not political groups.

Duly noted that the article says "at least." But it should also be noted that this complain does come from a political group.

CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:37 am The only people still opposing this are white progressives (who think minorities are helpless children) and their minority enablers.

CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:37 am One of the few areas where I have moved away from my libertarian streak is with voter ID. The last election saw polling numbers go way up in favor of it, including among minorities and Democrats.

I think with the right privacy safeguards and some hands-off legislation aimed at the executive branch, voter ID would work quite nicely.

One citizen, one ID, one vote. States would still control the particulars of their voting regs but the method of verification would be an approved ID obtained via a citizenship verification. State IDs already have to be Federally compliant for getting on airplanes, etc so it isn’t much of a leap.

The only people still opposing this are white progressives (who think minorities are helpless children) and their minority enablers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How is that different? Where are the places that people are allowed to vote without being on the rolls? (Other than Chicago of course.)

I've never seen anything other than they put a check by your name on the voting roll and give you a ballot. Couldn't get a second ballot if I wanted one

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:45 pm

CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:37 am One of the few areas where I have moved away from my libertarian streak is with voter ID. The last election saw polling numbers go way up in favor of it, including among minorities and Democrats.

I think with the right privacy safeguards and some hands-off legislation aimed at the executive branch, voter ID would work quite nicely.

One citizen, one ID, one vote. States would still control the particulars of their voting regs but the method of verification would be an approved ID obtained via a citizenship verification. State IDs already have to be Federally compliant for getting on airplanes, etc so it isn’t much of a leap.

The only people still opposing this are white progressives (who think minorities are helpless children) and their minority enablers.

How is that different? Where are the places that people are allowed to vote without being on the rolls? (Other than Chicago of course.)

I've never seen anything other than they put a check by your name on the voting roll and give you a ballot. Couldn't get a second ballot if I wanted one

I moved mid-October of last year and received ballots at my old address before the move and at my new address after the move. I probably could have requested an absentee ballot in Illinois (even though I left there in 2019) too.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:06 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:45 pm

How is that different? Where are the places that people are allowed to vote without being on the rolls? (Other than Chicago of course.)

I've never seen anything other than they put a check by your name on the voting roll and give you a ballot. Couldn't get a second ballot if I wanted one

I moved mid-October of last year and received ballots at my old address before the move and at my new address after the move. I probably could have requested an absentee ballot in Illinois (even though I left there in 2019) too.

I doubt that that is a verry common occurance

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:23 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:06 pm

I moved mid-October of last year and received ballots at my old address before the move and at my new address after the move. I probably could have requested an absentee ballot in Illinois (even though I left there in 2019) too.

I doubt that that is a verry common occurance

When I moved years back my wife had registered at our new house, but I hadn't yet. I went to vote at my old place and she was still on the rolls there (and could've voted there) while also being on the rolls at our new location. Considering she also lived in Philly before we met, she could conceivable still be on the rolls in the city. She could've voted 3 times in that election. And given that PA at the time didn't even have paper ballots or some record of traceability (only started to implement that in the 2018 election here) there wouldn't even be a record to audit.

While it doesn't imply directly that fraud has happened or is happening, there was an independent analysis of voter rolls done several years back and the estimate was something like 10%-20% had bad information in the records (bad addresses, wrong names, deceased voters, etc). We really should do what needs to be done to clean this up and help eliminate the suspicions, founded or unfounded, regarding election security. It wasn't all that long ago (1960 and before, at least) that we knew election fraud was common and widespread (read-up on Truman becoming Senator, read-up on LBJ's first elections to Congress, just as examples). I like to think we're better now and we most certainly are, but it's hardly a finely-tuned, no concerns about it type of system either.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:23 am the estimate was something like 10%-20% had bad information in the records

Considering Trump lost Georgia by 0.236% of the votes...

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:23 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:23 pm

I doubt that that is a verry common occurance

When I moved years back my wife had registered at our new house, but I hadn't yet. I went to vote at my old place and she was still on the rolls there (and could've voted there) while also being on the rolls at our new location. Considering she also lived in Philly before we met, she could conceivable still be on the rolls in the city. She could've voted 3 times in that election. And given that PA at the time didn't even have paper ballots or some record of traceability (only started to implement that in the 2018 election here) there wouldn't even be a record to audit.

While it doesn't imply directly that fraud has happened or is happening, there was an independent analysis of voter rolls done several years back and the estimate was something like 10%-20% had bad information in the records (bad addresses, wrong names, deceased voters, etc). We really should do what needs to be done to clean this up and help eliminate the suspicions, founded or unfounded, regarding election security. It wasn't all that long ago (1960 and before, at least) that we knew election fraud was common and widespread (read-up on Truman becoming Senator, read-up on LBJ's first elections to Congress, just as examples). I like to think we're better now and we most certainly are, but it's hardly a finely-tuned, no concerns about it type of system either.

I'm not at all opposed to getting voter rolls into shape where they need to be shaped up - I'm opposed to using it as excuse for losing when you lost by a landslide and decide that you want to take your ball and go home.

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:45 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:23 am the estimate was something like 10%-20% had bad information in the records

Considering Trump lost Georgia by 0.236% of the votes...

wow.... comparing apples and spaceships....

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:01 pm

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:45 am

Considering Trump lost Georgia by 0.236% of the votes...

wow.... comparing apples and spaceships....

Maybe you smoked too much weed when you were cleaning construction sites.

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:58 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:23 am

When I moved years back my wife had registered at our new house, but I hadn't yet. I went to vote at my old place and she was still on the rolls there (and could've voted there) while also being on the rolls at our new location. Considering she also lived in Philly before we met, she could conceivable still be on the rolls in the city. She could've voted 3 times in that election. And given that PA at the time didn't even have paper ballots or some record of traceability (only started to implement that in the 2018 election here) there wouldn't even be a record to audit.

While it doesn't imply directly that fraud has happened or is happening, there was an independent analysis of voter rolls done several years back and the estimate was something like 10%-20% had bad information in the records (bad addresses, wrong names, deceased voters, etc). We really should do what needs to be done to clean this up and help eliminate the suspicions, founded or unfounded, regarding election security. It wasn't all that long ago (1960 and before, at least) that we knew election fraud was common and widespread (read-up on Truman becoming Senator, read-up on LBJ's first elections to Congress, just as examples). I like to think we're better now and we most certainly are, but it's hardly a finely-tuned, no concerns about it type of system either.

I'm not at all opposed to getting voter rolls into shape where they need to be shaped up - I'm opposed to using it as excuse for losing when you lost by a landslide and decide that you want to take your ball and go home.

Who lost by a landslide? I'm no fan of Trump and his Trumpers, but 2020 was a pretty close election.

And yes, people won't be able to use it as an excuse if we did clean things up. It was that Pew Report back in 2010 that said we had messed it all up - 24 million voter registrations (1 in 8 of all registrations) were no longer valid or were significantly inaccurate, 1.8 million dead people still listed as active voters, 2.75 million people listed as active voters in more than one state. Maybe we've made some headway since then, it was 10 years ago, but I'm sure it's a good bet that we haven't.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/-/media/legac ... ionpdf.pdf

houndawg wrote:

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:06 pm I moved mid-October of last year and received ballots at my old address before the move and at my new address after the move. I probably could have requested an absentee ballot in Illinois (even though I left there in 2019) too.

I doubt that that is a verry common occurance

I still get ballots from SC and NC


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houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:58 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:23 am
When I moved years back my wife had registered at our new house, but I hadn't yet. I went to vote at my old place and she was still on the rolls there (and could've voted there) while also being on the rolls at our new location. Considering she also lived in Philly before we met, she could conceivable still be on the rolls in the city. She could've voted 3 times in that election. And given that PA at the time didn't even have paper ballots or some record of traceability (only started to implement that in the 2018 election here) there wouldn't even be a record to audit.

While it doesn't imply directly that fraud has happened or is happening, there was an independent analysis of voter rolls done several years back and the estimate was something like 10%-20% had bad information in the records (bad addresses, wrong names, deceased voters, etc). We really should do what needs to be done to clean this up and help eliminate the suspicions, founded or unfounded, regarding election security. It wasn't all that long ago (1960 and before, at least) that we knew election fraud was common and widespread (read-up on Truman becoming Senator, read-up on LBJ's first elections to Congress, just as examples). I like to think we're better now and we most certainly are, but it's hardly a finely-tuned, no concerns about it type of system either.

I'm not at all opposed to getting voter rolls into shape where they need to be shaped up - I'm opposed to using it as excuse for losing when you lost by a landslide and decide that you want to take your ball and go home.

Are you talking about Trump? Or Hillary? Or Stacy Abrams?

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:23 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:58 pm

I'm not at all opposed to getting voter rolls into shape where they need to be shaped up - I'm opposed to using it as excuse for losing when you lost by a landslide and decide that you want to take your ball and go home.

Who lost by a landslide? I'm no fan of Trump and his Trumpers, but 2020 was a pretty close election.

And yes, people won't be able to use it as an excuse if we did clean things up. It was that Pew Report back in 2010 that said we had messed it all up - 24 million voter registrations (1 in 8 of all registrations) were no longer valid or were significantly inaccurate, 1.8 million dead people still listed as active voters, 2.75 million people listed as active voters in more than one state. Maybe we've made some headway since then, it was 10 years ago, but I'm sure it's a good bet that we haven't.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/-/media/legac ... ionpdf.pdf

They called it a landslide when he won by the identical EC vote in '16. And 7,000,000 votes isn't that close, especially these days.

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:23 pm 7,000,000 votes isn't that close, especially these days.

You do understand how the EC works, right?

89Hen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:43 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:23 pm 7,000,000 votes isn't that close, especially these days.

You do understand how the EC works, right?

Establishment and progressive Democrats ...

• The EC is a relic and needs to be abolished.
• The filibuster is a relic and needs to be abolished.
• The 2nd Amendment is a relic and should be judicially ignored or abolished.

Also establishment and progressive Democrats ...

• We need to pass voting rights legislation to protect the Constitution.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:23 pm

Who lost by a landslide? I'm no fan of Trump and his Trumpers, but 2020 was a pretty close election.

And yes, people won't be able to use it as an excuse if we did clean things up. It was that Pew Report back in 2010 that said we had messed it all up - 24 million voter registrations (1 in 8 of all registrations) were no longer valid or were significantly inaccurate, 1.8 million dead people still listed as active voters, 2.75 million people listed as active voters in more than one state. Maybe we've made some headway since then, it was 10 years ago, but I'm sure it's a good bet that we haven't.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/-/media/legac ... ionpdf.pdf

but...but....but....houndy ASSures me that cleaning up voter rolls is "voter suppression"...

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:45 pm

CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:37 am One of the few areas where I have moved away from my libertarian streak is with voter ID. The last election saw polling numbers go way up in favor of it, including among minorities and Democrats.

I think with the right privacy safeguards and some hands-off legislation aimed at the executive branch, voter ID would work quite nicely.

One citizen, one ID, one vote. States would still control the particulars of their voting regs but the method of verification would be an approved ID obtained via a citizenship verification. State IDs already have to be Federally compliant for getting on airplanes, etc so it isn’t much of a leap.

The only people still opposing this are white progressives (who think minorities are helpless children) and their minority enablers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How is that different? Where are the places that people are allowed to vote without being on the rolls? (Other than Chicago of course.)

I've never seen anything other than they put a check by your name on the voting roll and give you a ballot. Couldn't get a second ballot if I wanted one

It's not the ones being allowed to vote NOT on the rolls, it's the ones who SHOULDN'T be on the rolls (dead, moved, whatever) that are STILL on the rolls and are still voting (despite being dead).

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:04 pm

89Hen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:43 am

You do understand how the EC works, right?

Establishment and progressive Democrats ...

• The EC is a relic and needs to be abolished.
• The filibuster is a relic and needs to be abolished.
• The 2nd Amendment is a relic and should be judicially ignored or abolished.

Also establishment and progressive Democrats ...

• We need to pass voting rights legislation to protect the Constitution.

They're a conundrum, wrapped in a ridde, surrounded by an enigma.

You also forgot the SC is an relic and needs to be packed.