2022 Elections Thread

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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:57 am
Winterborn wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:41 am

Technically that is what the holdouts are doing. :kisswink:

Thinking about them logically, this is their best chance to get some concessions (as long as they don't over play their hand). Why wouldn't they take it? I see very little difference in this and what Sinema and Manchin were doing last year.

There is common ground between the holdouts and minor D party members in the fact the Speaker controls too much of what goes on (can thank Gingrich for that) and one of the sticking points that McCarty does not want to do is break up the power of the Speaker to the pre-Gringrich days. This would give more say to the minority members of the House and reduce some of the cronyism. Which is something McCarty does not want. As that power is the reason he wants the job.

Like I said earlier, there is common ground between them. The sticking point is if both sides truly want to make a deal or not. Does McCarty want to lead or not? Are the GOP holdouts, doing it out of principle or spite? Both sides are at fault here as both are acting like children.
I thought I read that MTG was upset with Boebert and Gaetz for leaving her out of the discussion while they and the Freedom Caucus were trying to negotiate for plumb committee assignments. Are they trying to negotiate those assignments for the people they represent or so they can have a pulpit?

The difference between Manchin/Sinema and these holdouts is that Manchin/Sinema are centrists opposing more liberal policy and thus had allies to their right. The holdouts are alt-righters who have no natural allies on the side opposite of the party members they're opposing.

I believe you are correct about overplaying their hand. What if McCarthy withdraws his candidacy and the sh!tshow really starts? Every faction is going to want its piece of the pie and that is going to cut into what the holdouts want. The moderates could work a deal with the Democrats to pick a moderate Republican Speaker and then what do the holdouts get? Or they might not and the negotiations could drag out so long that they have to go to McCarthy with hat in hand asking him to reconsider without many of the concessions.

FTR I agree that many of the procedural changes are needed.
So I "believe" those committee assignments were part of the procedural changes (based on one article I read). Now whether or not they will not grandstand with them I can't say but I have my suspicions (that they grandstand). Will the group act in good faith, I can't say but at least some will not. There are 20 individuals in that group and while some are kooks (MTG, etc), are they all that way? We tend assign a group viewpoint based on the vocal members of that group. But the case is often that they are not all in agreement.

I am not trying to defend them, as I think this situation could be handled better and I really do not like some of the members of the group. Plus I side with McCathy on the fact that dealing with them is nothing but trouble. I am just trying to bring out that they maybe self-centered idiots, but even self-centered idiots are right every now and then. Overall I tend to side with what they are doing, don't agree on the process in which they are doing it, but if I was in that spot, I would be voting no right along with them. If that makes me "alt-right" then I guess I am one. Though I just like to think I am extremely pragmatic. I tend to look upon politics as a very high stakes game of poker. :twocents: Plus I tend to do think doing the opposite of what Trump wants done, most of the time, is the correct choice.

I still expect this all to blow up in their faces. Because, lets face it, there are more idiots in that group than not and well MTG is there and she is pure nitroglycerin. :nod:

BTW: Food for thought. Is the reason they do not have "allies" on the other side is because of their demands or because Pelois has cracked the whip in her party stating to shut-up and behave? I have seen AOC make some rational comments on this (and when she sounds rational I know she is being spoon fed lines), which leads me to believe that there is common ground, at least on certain things. Pelois is just making a statement and letting the R's have more bad press (which is what I would do in her situation). I have seen how the game is played in DC first hand and it is much more complex then what is allowed to be reported on in the media. It is all about telling a story.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by dbackjon »

HI54UNI wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:19 pm Where was the Dem's oppo research prior to the election that they didn't catch Santos in these lies?
Both his GOP Primary Opponent and his Democratic opponent did bring up many of the issues, but it was ignored by all the media other than one tiny newspaper.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:23 am
UNI88 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:57 am

I thought I read that MTG was upset with Boebert and Gaetz for leaving her out of the discussion while they and the Freedom Caucus were trying to negotiate for plumb committee assignments. Are they trying to negotiate those assignments for the people they represent or so they can have a pulpit?

The difference between Manchin/Sinema and these holdouts is that Manchin/Sinema are centrists opposing more liberal policy and thus had allies to their right. The holdouts are alt-righters who have no natural allies on the side opposite of the party members they're opposing.

I believe you are correct about overplaying their hand. What if McCarthy withdraws his candidacy and the sh!tshow really starts? Every faction is going to want its piece of the pie and that is going to cut into what the holdouts want. The moderates could work a deal with the Democrats to pick a moderate Republican Speaker and then what do the holdouts get? Or they might not and the negotiations could drag out so long that they have to go to McCarthy with hat in hand asking him to reconsider without many of the concessions.

FTR I agree that many of the procedural changes are needed.
So I "believe" those committee assignments were part of the procedural changes (based on one article I read). Now whether or not they will not grandstand with them I can't say but I have my suspicions (that they grandstand). Will the group act in good faith, I can't say but at least some will not. There are 20 individuals in that group and while some are kooks (MTG, etc), are they all that way? We tend assign a group viewpoint based on the vocal members of that group. But the case is often that they are not all in agreement.

I am not trying to defend them, as I think this situation could be handled better and I really do not like some of the members of the group. Plus I side with McCathy on the fact that dealing with them is nothing but trouble. I am just trying to bring out that they maybe self-centered idiots, but even self-centered idiots are right every now and then. Overall I tend to side with what they are doing, don't agree on the process in which they are doing it, but if I was in that spot, I would be voting no right along with them. If that makes me "alt-right" then I guess I am one. Though I just like to think I am extremely pragmatic. I tend to look upon politics as a very high stakes game of poker. :twocents: Plus I tend to do think doing the opposite of what Trump wants done, most of the time, is the correct choice.

I still expect this all to blow up in their faces. Because, lets face it, there are more idiots in that group than not and well MTG is there and she is pure nitroglycerin. :nod:

BTW: Food for thought. Is the reason they do not have "allies" on the other side is because of their demands or because Pelois has cracked the whip in her party stating to shut-up and behave? I have seen AOC make some rational comments on this (and when she sounds rational I know she is being spoon fed lines), which leads me to believe that there is common ground, at least on certain things. Pelois is just making a statement and letting the R's have more bad press (which is what I would do in her situation). I have seen how the game is played in DC first hand and it is much more complex then what is allowed to be reported on in the media. It is all about telling a story.
This why I’m becoming more and more in favor of fascist dictatorships.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by UNI88 »

dbackjon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:37 am
HI54UNI wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:19 pm Where was the Dem's oppo research prior to the election that they didn't catch Santos in these lies?
Both his GOP Primary Opponent and his Democratic opponent did bring up many of the issues, but it was ignored by all the media other than one tiny newspaper.
Kind of like Hunter's laptop? ;)
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:02 am
This why I’m becoming more and more in favor of fascist dictatorships.
Similar thoughts have crossed my mind, more on the monarchy or president for life side though. :thumb:

World domination is also intriguing, though probably as soon as I accomplished it I would give it up and just keep bits and pieces of the world as my personal hangouts. I don't think the world would really care if I kept Western Canada, Switzerland, Alaska, and Antarctica as personal property. :lol:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by dbackjon »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:12 am
dbackjon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:37 am

Both his GOP Primary Opponent and his Democratic opponent did bring up many of the issues, but it was ignored by all the media other than one tiny newspaper.
Kind of like Hunter's laptop? ;)
LOL - there has been plenty of airtime on that non-story
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by UNI88 »

dbackjon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:10 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:12 am
Kind of like Hunter's laptop? ;)
LOL - there has been plenty of airtime on that non-story
If it was a "non-story" why was buried until after November 3, 2020?
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by dbackjon »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:52 pm
dbackjon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:10 pm

LOL - there has been plenty of airtime on that non-story
If it was a "non-story" why was buried until after November 3, 2020?
It wasn't buried.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by SeattleGriz »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:52 pm
dbackjon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:10 pm

LOL - there has been plenty of airtime on that non-story
If it was a "non-story" why was buried until after November 3, 2020?
Don't forget 51 Intelligence Agents said it was Russian disinformation.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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Ballots 12 and 13 fail..
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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BDKJMU wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:57 pm 127 speaker elections since 1789. 9 times in history that has taken more than 3 rounds:
1. Nathaniel Banks, 133 ballots, 34th Congress, 1855
2. Howell Cobb, 63 ballots, 31st Congress, 1849
3. William Pennington, 44 ballots, 36th Congress, 1859
4. John W. Taylor, 22 ballots, 16th Congress, 1820
5. Kevin McCarthy, 13 ballots (and counting), 118th Congress, 2023
6. Philip Pendleton Barbour, 12 ballots, 17th Congress, 1821
7. Robert M.T. Hunter, 11 ballots, 29th Congress, 1839
8. John W. Bell, 10 ballots, 22nd Congress, 1833
9. Frederick Gillett, 9 ballots, 68th Congress, 1923
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kevin-mcca ... s-history/
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:26 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:52 pm

If it was a "non-story" why was buried until after November 3, 2020?
Don't forget 51 Intelligence Agents said it was Russian disinformation.
They were FORMER intelligence "officialss" expressing an opinion while allowing that they did not know for sure. See https://www.newsweek.com/hunter-biden-l ... er-1767369.
"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not, and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement—just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case," the letter said.
They said they suspected it. They did not say that they knew it. And, again, they were FORMER intelligence officials.

Nothing new here though. Jim Jordan is a thoroughly dishonest, bomb throwing demagogue. Mischaracterizing is what he does.
Last edited by JohnStOnge on Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by JohnStOnge »

On the McCarthy thing: I don't understand why the Democrats didn't just say they wouldn't vote and get out of the way. That way the nut jobs on the far right would have been marginalized. I realize that "nut jobs" is relative in this case. The whole Republican Party is "nut job" material right now. But now the Democrats are criticizing McCarthy for giving a bunch of power to the REALLY extreme far right and he would not have had to do that if they'd have just declined to participate.

I really don't get it. I mean, I know there is no good outcome to the Republicans controlling the House right now. But having the farthest right nut jobs empowered, to me, makes things even worse than they otherwise would have been.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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14th vote fails.

15th vote ITS OVER. McCarthy elected as speaker with 216 votes. 6 R holdouts voted present, so McCarthy needed 215 votes.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Ibanez »

McCarthy finally gets elected after the hold outs decided to vote neither for or against him. This man is weak, right out the gate. let’s see how long he lasts before Gaetz or someone brings up a vote against him.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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Ibanez wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:23 am McCarthy finally gets elected after the hold outs decided to vote neither for or against him. This man is weak, right out the gate. let’s see how long he lasts before Gaetz or someone brings up a vote against him.
I'm betting jack shit happens. Seemed more like staged drama to placate those who want our elected officials to represent their constituents as opposed to their self interests.

Look at how the GOP slowly put the Tea Party movement to death. Same thing here.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:42 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:26 pm

Don't forget 51 Intelligence Agents said it was Russian disinformation.
They were FORMER intelligence "officialss" expressing an opinion while allowing that they did not know for sure. See https://www.newsweek.com/hunter-biden-l ... er-1767369.
"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not, and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement—just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case," the letter said.
They said they suspected it. They did not say that they knew it. And, again, they were FORMER intelligence officials.

Nothing new here though. Jim Jordan is a thoroughly dishonest, bomb throwing demagogue. Mischaracterizing is what he does.
Finally…at long last…we’ll get to the bottom of Rudy’s and Manafort’s involvement with Ukraine.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:12 am
dbackjon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:37 am

Both his GOP Primary Opponent and his Democratic opponent did bring up many of the issues, but it was ignored by all the media other than one tiny newspaper.
Kind of like Hunter's laptop? ;)
Hunter's Laptop was discussed everywhere - even in parking lots of landscaping companies.. :coffee:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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Skjellyfetti wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:15 am Image
I whoop the bitch's ass!
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by SeattleGriz »

houndawg wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:27 am
Skjellyfetti wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:15 am Image
I whoop the bitch's ass!
I thought it was going to be good as well, but Rogers simply leaned towards Gaetz and started yelling. Guy didn't get close to Gaetz at all.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by SeattleGriz »

houndawg wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:26 am
UNI88 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:12 am

Kind of like Hunter's laptop? ;)
Hunter's Laptop was discussed everywhere - even in parking lots of landscaping companies.. :coffee:
Yes it was, but it was ignored and even suppressed by the FBI, which was the only group that mattered.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:03 pm
houndawg wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:26 am

Hunter's Laptop was discussed everywhere - even in parking lots of landscaping companies.. :coffee:
Yes it was, but it was ignored and even suppressed by the FBI, which was the only group that mattered.
What evidence is there it was suppressed outside of Twitter heeding warnings of Russian interference and Hunter’s dick pics?
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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