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More like:SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:48 am Poland isn't going to provide jets. They called Blinkens bluff and offered to fly them to the US base in Germany where they could be delivered by the US. Some reason we backed down.
Almost like Blinken was yelling at Russia behind Poland's skirt.
I didn't know stingers had that capability - it's like Blue Force Tracker.93henfan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:13 am For a real answer on the stingers, since I have some experience with them having been co-located with 3rd LAAD Btn for three years at 32 Area, Camp Pendleton, the stinger system has an identify friend or foe interrogator module that pings the aircraft. Friendlies have the correct challenge response. The operator is also well-trained in aircraft profiles, which admittedly doesn't help much when dealing with the same airframe on both sides. The opportunity for friendly fire is certainly ripe. I'm doubting that with the current communications degradation in Ukraine that the proper coding could be relayed to all aircraft and all ground operators. Recipe for disaster.
We sent teams to train at Red Flag at Nellis regularly, so we didn't kill too many people from the lesser services. I still have my Fun Meter patch from Red Flag.Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:28 amI didn't know stingers had that capability - it's like Blue Force Tracker.93henfan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:13 am For a real answer on the stingers, since I have some experience with them having been co-located with 3rd LAAD Btn for three years at 32 Area, Camp Pendleton, the stinger system has an identify friend or foe interrogator module that pings the aircraft. Friendlies have the correct challenge response. The operator is also well-trained in aircraft profiles, which admittedly doesn't help much when dealing with the same airframe on both sides. The opportunity for friendly fire is certainly ripe. I'm doubting that with the current communications degradation in Ukraine that the proper coding could be relayed to all aircraft and all ground operators. Recipe for disaster.
Same thing the aircraft have when talking with each other…IFF….93henfan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:13 am For a real answer on the stingers, since I have some experience with them having been co-located with 3rd LAAD Btn for three years at 32 Area, Camp Pendleton, the stinger system has an identify friend or foe interrogator module that pings the aircraft. Friendlies have the correct challenge response. The operator is also well-trained in aircraft profiles, which admittedly doesn't help much when dealing with the same airframe on both sides. The opportunity for friendly fire is certainly ripe. I'm doubting that with the current communications degradation in Ukraine that the proper coding could be relayed to all aircraft and all ground operators. Recipe for disaster.
Flying NATO planes into Ukranian airspace is a huge risk. The best workaround would be to fly the planes to the closest airport to the Polish/Ukraine border and let the Ukrainians come in and load them on trucks or trains.SuperHornet wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:16 pm Part of Poland's proposition was that we would "repay" them with used fighters of similar capability. I'm not sure why Biden nixed the deal. It's a no-brainer, IMO....
I could see that. But Poland still has to defend themselves. I could see sending them used F/A-18 A/Bs....93henfan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:16 pmFlying NATO planes into Ukranian airspace is a huge risk. The best workaround would be to fly the planes to the closest airport to the Polish/Ukraine border and let the Ukrainians come in and load them on trucks or trains.SuperHornet wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:16 pm Part of Poland's proposition was that we would "repay" them with used fighters of similar capability. I'm not sure why Biden nixed the deal. It's a no-brainer, IMO....
Agreed, you can't fly them into Poland. But, given that we're supposedly trucking in weapons anyway, no reason why you couldn't load these things up and bring them in too. And I'm fine if we don't want to overly advertise what we're doing, but we should've done a better job of communicating that with Poland. Heck, Blinken was on record touting this offer from Poland before the Pentagon got a hold of him and changed the tune. Too sloppy when there's no reason to be this sloppy.93henfan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:16 pmFlying NATO planes into Ukranian airspace is a huge risk. The best workaround would be to fly the planes to the closest airport to the Polish/Ukraine border and let the Ukrainians come in and load them on trucks or trains.SuperHornet wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:16 pm Part of Poland's proposition was that we would "repay" them with used fighters of similar capability. I'm not sure why Biden nixed the deal. It's a no-brainer, IMO....
Poland is a NATO country. It would be a huge risk, given Putin’s mental state.SuperHornet wrote:Part of Poland's proposition was that we would "repay" them with used fighters of similar capability. I'm not sure why Biden nixed the deal. It's a no-brainer, IMO....
That was well played by Poland. To me it looked like Blinken was trying to troll Poland into getting NATO involved. Poland has already been burned by the West pretty badly, smart of them to not trust the West in this situation.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:48 am Poland isn't going to provide jets. They called Blinkens bluff and offered to fly them to the US base in Germany where they could be delivered by the US. Some reason we backed down.
Almost like Blinken was yelling at Russia behind Poland's skirt.
Blinken green lighted the transfer. Biden himself personally killed itSDHornet wrote:That was well played by Poland. To me it looked like Blinken was trying to troll Poland into getting NATO involved. Poland has already been burned by the West pretty badly, smart of them to not trust the West in this situation.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:48 am Poland isn't going to provide jets. They called Blinkens bluff and offered to fly them to the US base in Germany where they could be delivered by the US. Some reason we backed down.
Almost like Blinken was yelling at Russia behind Poland's skirt.
How did Biden kill it? Seems Poland called the bluff and the US backed down. Maybe they are one and the same, but when you hear "Biden killed it" AFTER Poland called out the US, it seems rather odd to kill something that seemed dead already.CID1990 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:12 pmBlinken green lighted the transfer. Biden himself personally killed itSDHornet wrote:
That was well played by Poland. To me it looked like Blinken was trying to troll Poland into getting NATO involved. Poland has already been burned by the West pretty badly, smart of them to not trust the West in this situation.
Biden’s own cabinet isnt coordinated with the WH at all
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Yeah that's what it looked like to me as well.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:21 pmHow did Biden kill it? Seems Poland called the bluff and the US backed down. Maybe they are one and the same, but when you hear "Biden killed it" AFTER Poland called out the US, it seems rather odd to kill something that seemed dead already.
I don't know shit though, that's already been proven in this thread.
If he needs an excuse he'll manufacture one, there's no turning back for him. Playing crazy is about the last card he has to playCID1990 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:45 pmPoland is a NATO country. It would be a huge risk, given Putin’s mental state.SuperHornet wrote:Part of Poland's proposition was that we would "repay" them with used fighters of similar capability. I'm not sure why Biden nixed the deal. It's a no-brainer, IMO....
Now, if we could get India to give some Fulcrums to Ukraine, that might be different. But that would require creativity way beyond the capability of our current government
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There was no bluff involved. Poland wanted to transfer the planes, then they back off. Then SecState tacitly signaled it might work if the transfer thru Ramstein, and then cooler heads at the WH prevailed and nixed it. It was the right move, IMOSeattleGriz wrote:How did Biden kill it? Seems Poland called the bluff and the US backed down. Maybe they are one and the same, but when you hear "Biden killed it" AFTER Poland called out the US, it seems rather odd to kill something that seemed dead already.
I don't know shit though, that's already been proven in this thread.
Turkey is still a NATO country and I haven’t heard any grief about them providing UAVs to Ukraine…but providing MIGs is a no go???CID1990 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:45 pmPoland is a NATO country. It would be a huge risk, given Putin’s mental state.SuperHornet wrote:Part of Poland's proposition was that we would "repay" them with used fighters of similar capability. I'm not sure why Biden nixed the deal. It's a no-brainer, IMO....
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Why F/A 18s??? Poland has no experience with that jet…no support equipment…no trained maintainers…no trained pilots…SuperHornet wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:30 pmI could see that. But Poland still has to defend themselves. I could see sending them used F/A-18 A/Bs....
