Culture Wars

Political discussions
Post Reply
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20313
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Culture Wars

Post by JohnStOnge »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:10 pm I posted, then deleted, but want to repost.

Listen to this guy. He's vilified because he takes funding from the fossil fuel industry, but is anyone willing to debate him? It's about substance, not source when science is concerned.

UNI, he addresses extreme events in the last quarter of his discussion.

i think that there are people who would be willing to debate him. i remembered seeing, years ago, reports that he misrepresents what Climate Scientists have said in order to claim they were wrong. I particularly remembered reports that he misrepresented James Hansen's work. I was able to find an account of that at https://skepticalscience.com/patrick-mi ... -data.html.

i suspect Hansen would be very willing to debate him.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20313
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Culture Wars

Post by JohnStOnge »

[quote=AZGrizFan post_id=1403602 time=1651027989 user_id=91

Please tell me when it wasn’t? Donks scream “follow the science”, and yet they ignore it at literally every turn by making claims like:

* men can have babies. They can’t
* men can have periods. They can’t
* climate science is settled. It’s not
* aborted full term babies aren’t people. They are
* gender can be chosen. It cannot
* you can identify as anything you want. Identifying as a tree doesn’t make you a tree
* and on and on and on

Yeah. Follow the science. They literally NEVER follow the science.
[/quote]

Biological males can't have babies or have periods. When liberals say 'men" can have babies that is more of a philosophical statement. It's talking about gender as it has come to be defined rather than about biological sex.

I don't know if climate science can ever be "settled" because it doesn't lend itself to controlled experimentation and, even with controlled experimentation, I don't know if anything is ever "settled." But I think there there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence on the side of saying humans activity is a major factor causing climate change. See https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2021/1 ... ate-change.

Whether aborted individuals at any age are "people" is a philosophical question, not a scientific one.

As gender is currently defined, it can be chosen. It is not the same thing as biological sex.

I agree that identifying as a tree doesn't make you a tree. A biological male identifying as a woman doesn't make them a biological female. So on and so forth.

I've thought about instances in which liberals tend to delude themselves and ways in which conservatives do. And I think we have reached a time in history where the ways in which conservatives do it are worse. For example: If you are in the middle of a global pandemic that is killing millions of people and conservatives are in denial about it, refusing to support strategies that do mitigate it, and for some reason glam onto strategies that do not mitigate it, that is more harmful than liberals calling biological males "women" and letting biological males clobber biological females in swimming competitions.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59295
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Culture Wars

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 5:40 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:10 pm I posted, then deleted, but want to repost.

Listen to this guy. He's vilified because he takes funding from the fossil fuel industry, but is anyone willing to debate him? It's about substance, not source when science is concerned.

UNI, he addresses extreme events in the last quarter of his discussion.

i think that there are people who would be willing to debate him. i remembered seeing, years ago, reports that he misrepresents what Climate Scientists have said in order to claim they were wrong. I particularly remembered reports that he misrepresented James Hansen's work. I was able to find an account of that at https://skepticalscience.com/patrick-mi ... -data.html.

i suspect Hansen would be very willing to debate him.
Interesting for this thread, but conservation is indeed a cultural issue as well as a morality issue. :nod:

I’m not sure everyone understands that.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20313
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Culture Wars

Post by JohnStOnge »

Science is a process. It works. The only question is whether ScienTISTS are following it.

Right now, we have a real problem on the conservative side with respect to things that really matter. Like I have heard conservatives say we have an inexhaustible supply of fossil fuels. We do not. They are going to run out and, in the context of history, it is not going to be long. When I Google around on it the ballpark seems to be about 50 years. Maybe not. Maybe 100 years. But it's not going to be long in the context of history if we just ignore the fact that fossil fuels are finite. Won't affect me because I'm 64 years old. But i'd like to think we care about future generations.

There's the climate change thing. It's kind of like talking about cigarette smoking. Technically, we cannot infer cause and effect because we can't do controlled experiments to infer that cigarette smoking causes cancer. But we all pretty much accept that cigarette smoking causes cancer because the associations are so consistent and so strong. At this point the Climate Change thing is pretty much the same situation. But a lot of Conservatives don't want to deal with it because it means hard choices.

Then there is this COVID-19 thing. This is an area where Conservatives really showed just how much of a problem they are. Really, really bad. The idea that death rates are exaggerated (they're not). The anti vax stuff. The hydroxychloriquine stuff. The ivermectin stuff. It's just really been awful.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20313
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Culture Wars

Post by JohnStOnge »

BTW, just in terms of the general topic:

Liberals have been winning the culture wars for a long time and all indications are that they are going to continue to win them. There may be periodic setbacks. But if you go back over my lifetime (born in 1957) there is no question with respect to the trend.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: Culture Wars

Post by AZGrizFan »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 6:36 pm Science is a process. It works. The only question is whether ScienTISTS are following it.

Right now, we have a real problem on the conservative side with respect to things that really matter. Like I have heard conservatives say we have an inexhaustible supply of fossil fuels. We do not. They are going to run out and, in the context of history, it is not going to be long. When I Google around on it the ballpark seems to be about 50 years. Maybe not. Maybe 100 years. But it's not going to be long in the context of history if we just ignore the fact that fossil fuels are finite. Won't affect me because I'm 64 years old. But i'd like to think we care about future generations.

There's the climate change thing. It's kind of like talking about cigarette smoking. Technically, we cannot infer cause and effect because we can't do controlled experiments to infer that cigarette smoking causes cancer. But we all pretty much accept that cigarette smoking causes cancer because the associations are so consistent and so strong. At this point the Climate Change thing is pretty much the same situation. But a lot of Conservatives don't want to deal with it because it means hard choices.

Then there is this COVID-19 thing. This is an area where Conservatives really showed just how much of a problem they are. Really, really bad. The idea that death rates are exaggerated (they're not). The anti vax stuff. The hydroxychloriquine stuff. The ivermectin stuff. It's just really been awful.
Man, there is a shitload of “fail” in that post.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Culture Wars

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 2:16 pm
SDHornet wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:02 pm
Who’s they?
The public education industrial complex.
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Culture Wars

Post by SDHornet »

BuT iTs NoT tAuGhT iN sChOoLs

Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59295
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Culture Wars

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 9:42 pm
kalm wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 2:16 pm

Who’s they?
The public education industrial complex.
Those evil bastards! :lol:
Image
Image
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59295
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Culture Wars

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:27 pm BuT iTs NoT tAuGhT iN sChOoLs

Image
So a social worker claims to have taught a gender identity lesson to an undisclosed age group, and is publicly shamed for it by the administration.

Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work for you?
Image
Image
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59295
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Culture Wars

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 9:42 pm
kalm wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 2:16 pm

Who’s they?
The public education industrial complex.
Sounds better than what they face at hone…amirite?

Image
Image
Image
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 27895
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: Culture Wars

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 2:16 pm
SDHornet wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:02 pm
Who’s they?
The Groomers…
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 27895
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: Culture Wars

Post by BDKJMU »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 5:59 pm [quote=AZGrizFan post_id=1403602 time=1651027989 user_id=91

Please tell me when it wasn’t? Donks scream “follow the science”, and yet they ignore it at literally every turn by making claims like:

* men can have babies. They can’t
* men can have periods. They can’t
* climate science is settled. It’s not
* aborted full term babies aren’t people. They are
* gender can be chosen. It cannot
* you can identify as anything you want. Identifying as a tree doesn’t make you a tree
* and on and on and on

Yeah. Follow the science. They literally NEVER follow the science.
Biological males can't have babies or have periods. When liberals say 'men" can have babies that is more of a philosophical statement. It's talking about gender as it has come to be defined rather than about biological sex.

I don't know if climate science can ever be "settled" because it doesn't lend itself to controlled experimentation and, even with controlled experimentation, I don't know if anything is ever "settled." But I think there there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence on the side of saying humans activity is a major factor causing climate change. See https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2021/1 ... ate-change.

Whether aborted individuals at any age are "people" is a philosophical question, not a scientific one.

As gender is currently defined, it can be chosen. It is not the same thing as biological sex.

I agree that identifying as a tree doesn't make you a tree. A biological male identifying as a woman doesn't make them a biological female. So on and so forth.

I've thought about instances in which liberals tend to delude themselves and ways in which conservatives do. And I think we have reached a time in history where the ways in which conservatives do it are worse. For example: If you are in the middle of a global pandemic that is killing millions of people and conservatives are in denial about it, refusing to support strategies that do mitigate it, and for some reason glam onto strategies that do not mitigate it, that is more harmful than liberals calling biological males "women" and letting biological males clobber biological females in swimming competitions.
[/quote]

For fucks sake, learn how to use the quote function. Its not that hard.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19949
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: Culture Wars

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:41 am
kalm wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 2:16 pm Who’s they?
The Groomers…
This guy?

Image
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19949
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: Culture Wars

Post by UNI88 »

SDHornet wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:27 pm BuT iTs NoT tAuGhT iN sChOoLs

Image
What should a school worker do when an apparent LGBT+ student needs support and isn't getting it at home?

I ask because I'm pretty sure those students are at significantly greater risk of committing suicide so I don't think saying it's the parent's domain and none of the school worker's business is the right answer.

Anecdotal story:
My HS got a bunch of Apple II computers (about same time as the Commodore 64) my senior year and created a programming class. The class was almost exclusively taken by students who were likely going to college except for one kid. He was a bit of a loner but he was an absolutely brilliant programmer. I took a number of computer science classes in college and worked in and around IT for 12 years and he was the best I ever saw. While I was away at college I heard that he had committed suicide. It turns out that he was gay, his home life was sh!t and his parents couldn't handle who he was. The world lost a brilliant programmer who might have created something life-changing for society because of intolerance and fear of people who are different.

I don't want teachers encouraging students to be LGBT+ but they should be able to provide support for those that have self-identified without being labeled groomers. Talking to students about how people are different isn't a bad thing either. Helping to develop tolerance and understanding is good.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59295
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Culture Wars

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:51 am
BDKJMU wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:41 am
The Groomers…
This guy?

Image
:lol:

Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: Culture Wars

Post by AZGrizFan »

UNI88 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 10:48 am
SDHornet wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:27 pm BuT iTs NoT tAuGhT iN sChOoLs

Image
What should a school worker do when an apparent LGBT+ student needs support and isn't getting it at home?

I ask because I'm pretty sure those students are at significantly greater risk of committing suicide so I don't think saying it's the parent's domain and none of the school worker's business is the right answer.

Anecdotal story:
My HS got a bunch of Apple II computers (about same time as the Commodore 64) my senior year and created a programming class. The class was almost exclusively taken by students who were likely going to college except for one kid. He was a bit of a loner but he was an absolutely brilliant programmer. I took a number of computer science classes in college and worked in and around IT for 12 years and he was the best I ever saw. While I was away at college I heard that he had committed suicide. It turns out that he was gay, his home life was sh!t and his parents couldn't handle who he was. The world lost a brilliant programmer who might have created something life-changing for society because of intolerance and fear of people who are different.

I don't want teachers encouraging students to be LGBT+ but they should be able to provide support for those that have self-identified without being labeled groomers. Talking to students about how people are different isn't a bad thing either. Helping to develop tolerance and understanding is good.
Were that all they were doing, nobody would care, 88.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19949
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: Culture Wars

Post by UNI88 »

AZGrizFan wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 12:36 pm
UNI88 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 10:48 am

What should a school worker do when an apparent LGBT+ student needs support and isn't getting it at home?

I ask because I'm pretty sure those students are at significantly greater risk of committing suicide so I don't think saying it's the parent's domain and none of the school worker's business is the right answer.

Anecdotal story:
My HS got a bunch of Apple II computers (about same time as the Commodore 64) my senior year and created a programming class. The class was almost exclusively taken by students who were likely going to college except for one kid. He was a bit of a loner but he was an absolutely brilliant programmer. I took a number of computer science classes in college and worked in and around IT for 12 years and he was the best I ever saw. While I was away at college I heard that he had committed suicide. It turns out that he was gay, his home life was sh!t and his parents couldn't handle who he was. The world lost a brilliant programmer who might have created something life-changing for society because of intolerance and fear of people who are different.

I don't want teachers encouraging students to be LGBT+ but they should be able to provide support for those that have self-identified without being labeled groomers. Talking to students about how people are different isn't a bad thing either. Helping to develop tolerance and understanding is good.
Were that all they were doing, nobody would care, 88.
You wouldn't care but insecure, homphobic, hardcore MAGAts would care.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Culture Wars

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 6:22 am
SDHornet wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:27 pm BuT iTs NoT tAuGhT iN sChOoLs

Image
So a social worker claims to have taught a gender identity lesson to an undisclosed age group, and is publicly shamed for it by the administration.

Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work for you?
Correct question is why is a social worker allowed to teach a class.
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Culture Wars

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 6:53 am
SDHornet wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 9:42 pm

The public education industrial complex.
Sounds better than what they face at hone…amirite?

No idea what this lady is talking about, but from the China Virus thread, someone mentioned CPS cases being way down. Maybe that was her angle (and agreed it's an awful one of that is the case).
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Culture Wars

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 10:48 am
SDHornet wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:27 pm BuT iTs NoT tAuGhT iN sChOoLs

Image
What should a school worker do when an apparent LGBT+ student needs support and isn't getting it at home?

I ask because I'm pretty sure those students are at significantly greater risk of committing suicide so I don't think saying it's the parent's domain and none of the school worker's business is the right answer.

Anecdotal story:
My HS got a bunch of Apple II computers (about same time as the Commodore 64) my senior year and created a programming class. The class was almost exclusively taken by students who were likely going to college except for one kid. He was a bit of a loner but he was an absolutely brilliant programmer. I took a number of computer science classes in college and worked in and around IT for 12 years and he was the best I ever saw. While I was away at college I heard that he had committed suicide. It turns out that he was gay, his home life was sh!t and his parents couldn't handle who he was. The world lost a brilliant programmer who might have created something life-changing for society because of intolerance and fear of people who are different.

I don't want teachers encouraging students to be LGBT+ but they should be able to provide support for those that have self-identified without being labeled groomers. Talking to students about how people are different isn't a bad thing either. Helping to develop tolerance and understanding is good.
Tough situation. Parents have the ultimate say as it's their responsibility. Some parents suck, and will suck at dealing with issues like this, but allowing the state to interject itself (so long as no physical harm is present) isn't the right move imo.
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59295
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Culture Wars

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 2:41 pm
UNI88 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 10:48 am

What should a school worker do when an apparent LGBT+ student needs support and isn't getting it at home?

I ask because I'm pretty sure those students are at significantly greater risk of committing suicide so I don't think saying it's the parent's domain and none of the school worker's business is the right answer.

Anecdotal story:
My HS got a bunch of Apple II computers (about same time as the Commodore 64) my senior year and created a programming class. The class was almost exclusively taken by students who were likely going to college except for one kid. He was a bit of a loner but he was an absolutely brilliant programmer. I took a number of computer science classes in college and worked in and around IT for 12 years and he was the best I ever saw. While I was away at college I heard that he had committed suicide. It turns out that he was gay, his home life was sh!t and his parents couldn't handle who he was. The world lost a brilliant programmer who might have created something life-changing for society because of intolerance and fear of people who are different.

I don't want teachers encouraging students to be LGBT+ but they should be able to provide support for those that have self-identified without being labeled groomers. Talking to students about how people are different isn't a bad thing either. Helping to develop tolerance and understanding is good.
Tough situation. Parents have the ultimate say as it's their responsibility. Some parents suck, and will suck at dealing with issues like this, but allowing the state to interject itself (so long as no physical harm is present) isn't the right move imo.
So psychological abuse isn’t a thing?
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
dbackjon
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 45610
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 am
I am a fan of: Northern Arizona
A.K.A.: He/Him
Location: Scottsdale

Re: Culture Wars

Post by dbackjon »

UNI88 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:51 am
BDKJMU wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:41 am
The Groomers…
This guy?

Image
Good ol "Gym" Jordan, the real groomer defender.
:thumb:
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Culture Wars

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 2:46 pm
SDHornet wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 2:41 pm

Tough situation. Parents have the ultimate say as it's their responsibility. Some parents suck, and will suck at dealing with issues like this, but allowing the state to interject itself (so long as no physical harm is present) isn't the right move imo.
So psychological abuse isn’t a thing?
Who gets to determine psychological abuse?
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59295
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Culture Wars

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 2:54 pm
kalm wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 2:46 pm

So psychological abuse isn’t a thing?
Who gets to determine psychological abuse?
A doctor.
Image
Image
Image
Post Reply