Uvalde School Shooting

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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by GannonFan »

Ibanez wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:41 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:33 pm

600,000 a year never make it to a home at all. What's the liberals' solution to that? (Rhetorical question, but it points out the hypocrisy of the left).

Here's a little newsflash: not all school resource officers are "Barney Fife". A significant number are active duty police officers assigned to the schools. Your continued insistence and dependence on that little anecdotal tidbit is beneath you, Mark.
It's hyperbolic to make a point, Tom. One would figure for having known me for nearly 20+ years, you would've learned my arguing/debating style. If Trump can be hyperbolic, why can't I? :lol:

No shit they all aren't Barney Fife's, but that isn't the point. Putting cops, guards in the school does NOTHING to combat the issue as to why these kids feel the need to go shoot up a school, supermarket, movie theater, etc... Let's spend billions on mental health, better counselors in the schools to help those children before they go and ruin their lives among dozens others.

The hypocrisy is on both sides b/c neither side wants to take an objective look at the issue and propose a solution that might not be the politically-safe solution but is the best solution - and that goes for any topic whether it's school shootings or not.

I'm all in favor of better mental health in the schools - just don't know what that would look like. I don't want to foist it onto the teachers, in many cases they're already stretched way too far in just what they have to do (i.e. teach). Counselors are great but how do you get really good ones? I remember counselors at my school in high school - heck, one was my basketball coach. They were not particularly good at counseling, and that was even before this age of terrible mental health issues.

Oh, and reports are the armed guard at this school did engage in a firefight with the gunman and the guard was hit and injured during the exchange. The gunman, as a result of this exchange, did drop a bag full of ammo, but was still able to get inside the building. I haven't heard details of how the building was secured prior to this. The gunman also came wearing body armor, so the armed guard was likely at a disadvantage, like the situation in Buffalo where the armed guard managed to hit the gunman only for the armor to protect him.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by Ibanez »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:54 pm
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:41 pm

It's hyperbolic to make a point, Tom. One would figure for having known me for nearly 20+ years, you would've learned my arguing/debating style. If Trump can be hyperbolic, why can't I? :lol:

No shit they all aren't Barney Fife's, but that isn't the point. Putting cops, guards in the school does NOTHING to combat the issue as to why these kids feel the need to go shoot up a school, supermarket, movie theater, etc... Let's spend billions on mental health, better counselors in the schools to help those children before they go and ruin their lives among dozens others.

The hypocrisy is on both sides b/c neither side wants to take an objective look at the issue and propose a solution that might not be the politically-safe solution but is the best solution - and that goes for any topic whether it's school shootings or not.

I'm all in favor of better mental health in the schools - just don't know what that would look like. I don't want to foist it onto the teachers, in many cases they're already stretched way too far in just what they have to do (i.e. teach). Counselors are great but how do you get really good ones? I remember counselors at my school in high school - heck, one was my basketball coach. They were not particularly good at counseling, and that was even before this age of terrible mental health issues.

Oh, and reports are the armed guard at this school did engage in a firefight with the gunman and the guard was hit and injured during the exchange. The gunman, as a result of this exchange, did drop a bag full of ammo, but was still able to get inside the building. I haven't heard details of how the building was secured prior to this. The gunman also came wearing body armor, so the armed guard was likely at a disadvantage, like the situation in Buffalo where the armed guard managed to hit the gunman only for the armor to protect him.
No, I wouldn't put that on the teachers. But those teachers are the first line and they can report them to a counselor. There's no one right and best answer. Early intervention, like all things, is key.

So I've read that police showed up and exchanged fire with the shooter, there wasn't any mention of an armed guard. He was wearing a tactical vest with NO plates in them. You'd think, in 2022 ,we'd have a clearer picture of what happen.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:02 pm
GannonFan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:54 pm


I'm all in favor of better mental health in the schools - just don't know what that would look like. I don't want to foist it onto the teachers, in many cases they're already stretched way too far in just what they have to do (i.e. teach). Counselors are great but how do you get really good ones? I remember counselors at my school in high school - heck, one was my basketball coach. They were not particularly good at counseling, and that was even before this age of terrible mental health issues.

Oh, and reports are the armed guard at this school did engage in a firefight with the gunman and the guard was hit and injured during the exchange. The gunman, as a result of this exchange, did drop a bag full of ammo, but was still able to get inside the building. I haven't heard details of how the building was secured prior to this. The gunman also came wearing body armor, so the armed guard was likely at a disadvantage, like the situation in Buffalo where the armed guard managed to hit the gunman only for the armor to protect him.
No, I wouldn't put that on the teachers. But those teachers are the first line and they can report them to a counselor. There's no one right and best answer. Early intervention, like all things, is key.

So I've read that police showed up and exchanged fire with the shooter, there wasn't any mention of an armed guard. He was wearing a tactical vest with NO plates in them. You'd think, in 2022 ,we'd have a clearer picture of what happen.
You would think. Hell, the first reports that came out said TWO people were killed. The next update said EIGHTEEN. Fog of war shit, I guess. :ohno:
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by Winterborn »

I say all of that because when word went out yesterday that there was an active shooter at the local elementary school, some of the first people to arrive were CBP agents. And it’s a good thing they did because an off-duty CBP agent entered the school and killed the shooter. I mentioned this in an update yesterday but today we know a bit more.

The agent, a member of CBP’s Border Patrol Tactical Unit (BORTAC), rushed into the school while the shooter was still active and began exchanging rounds with the gunman, who was barricaded inside a fourth-grade classroom, NBC and Fox reported.

The officer was injured during the shooting but he managed to “eliminate the threat” and kill the shooter before he could commit more carnage, law enforcement sources told NBC.

Marsha Espinosa, the DHS Assistant Secretary of Public Affairs, tweeted about this yesterday and said this agent and two other law enforcement officers put themselves between the shooter and children.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:55 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:11 am

I didn't say anything about gun bans or overturning 2A so get your panties out of a bunch. And it's true - if Republicans truly cared then they would do whatever necessary to protect vulnerable children. But they won't (and neither will the Democrats) because it would probably require some hard and unpopular decisions that'll make them lose power.

You aren't solving a problem by adding armed guards (Parkland had a guard who ran away). It could be a stop gap but there has to be more than the nothing we're doing now. The Republican solution to gun violence in schools is more guns in the school. I get the idea, it makes sense but we should be focusing on reducing the ability for people like this guy or that whack job up in NY to even acquiring a weapon. The armed guard solution doesn't solve the root cause. It's just a temporary mitigation.
:nod: If Republicans were serious about protecting children they would also be in favor of addressing mental healthcare and wouldn't be trying to undermine public education.
Its not the Republicans who led the push to stop institutionalizing the mentally ill, and are against re-instating that.

How are Republicans trying to undermine public education?

Edit: God damn fat finger typos
Last edited by BDKJMU on Wed May 25, 2022 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:35 am
Winterborn wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:24 am

I realize you are being snarky here but mental health starts long before one enters school. Parents (or lack there of) have a big role to play in this area as well. Along with who/what the kid is spending their time on. Reading 4chan is enough to make anybody want to go off the deep end.
I was being a little snarky but IMO a disdain for public education and for healthcare assistance is contrary to a pro-life position. If you're pro-life you should care about and support life from conception through death. To qualify that, I do think that someone like 89 is extremely pro-life, doesn't believe in big government but would guess that he gives generously to his church and to charities.

Defunding public education is as stupid as defunding the police.
Who is defunding education? Where does the US rank worldwide in per pupil spending?
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by BDKJMU »

The fake Mexican is a fooking embarrassment. As an unelected official he had no business being there.

It wasn’t the sheriff, but rather the mayor of Uvalde (with the walker) who called ‘Beto’ a sick son of a bitch. I’m embarrassed I went to high school with Rob (he was a year ahead of me).
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:07 pm
UNI88 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:55 am
:nod: If Republicans were serious about protecting children they would also be in favor of addressing mental healthcare and wouldn't be trying to undermine public education.
Its not the Republicans who led the push to stop institutionalizing the mentally ill, and are against re-instating that.

How are Republicans trying to undermine public education?

Edit: God damn fat finger typos
Not wanting to fund mental healthcare has an impact as well and the Democrats don't own that aspect.

Reducing funding for education is undermining education.

Like just about every other debate, neither party has the high ground on this one.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by UNI88 »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:31 am
kalm wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:23 am :nod:

This falls on leadership from both parties. To wit…Dem establishment including Pelosi threw tons of money and support towards Henry Cuellar in his Texas primary. He’s pro life and A rated by the NRA. He’s also under an FBI bribery investigation including having his offices raided.

They care about money, hate the left, and do not represent average Americans.

They will however use this tragedy for performative messaging that sounds like they give a shit.
I certainly agree with this sentiment. They don't give a crap, outside of how it can lead to electoral success and political power. If we had leaders, on either side of the aisle, there would be at least people sitting down right now, regardless of political parties, and having frank and open discussions about what can be done, what compromises can be reached, and things put on the table to vote on and to implement. And then sitting down again when the first, or second, or third things don't work to prevent slaughters like these. Instead, we get performance art. We get politicians acting like Steve Kerr (who I think is at least sincere and he's also not a politician) and going through all the histrionics and virtue signaling but then only using it for political gain. At least try to solve the problem, and any problem solving is going to require people to sit down and figure it out. Screaming behind a microphone and then making political ads and checking the opinion polls doesn't get us anywhere.
Like this clown?

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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:35 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:07 pm
Its not the Republicans who led the push to stop institutionalizing the mentally ill, and are against re-instating that.

How are Republicans trying to undermine public education?

Edit: God damn fat finger typos
Not wanting to fund mental healthcare has an impact as well and the Democrats don't own that aspect.

[bReducing funding for education is undermining education[/b].

Like just about every other debate, neither party has the high ground on this one.
So having the highest per pupil spending on education in the world is reducing funding on education?
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by BDKJMU »

Apparently this guy was majorly into Call of Duty and some other video games called ‘Fortnite’ and ‘Dead By Daylight’. Never heard of either
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -HOUR.html
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by BDKJMU »

Whoopi Goldberg: If women can’t have abortions we’re ‘going to come for’ guns, ‘get ready to give them up’
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/whoop ... NewsSearch

Whoopi Goldberg: I’ll ‘punch somebody’ if another GOPer laments Texas massacre
https://nypost.com/2022/05/25/whoopi-go ... sacre/amp/
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:07 pm
UNI88 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:55 am

:nod: If Republicans were serious about protecting children they would also be in favor of addressing mental healthcare and wouldn't be trying to undermine public education.
Its not the Republicans who led the push to stop institutionalizing the mentally ill, and are against re-instating that.

How are Republicans trying to undermine public education?

Edit: God damn fat finger typos
Ummmm…Saint Reagan was largely responsible for deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill both as governor and President. On account of psychiatry might lead to communism or something.

Similar to ripping Carter’s solar panels off the White House, old Ronnie quickly dispatched Carter’s new policy of enhancing mental health care.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:15 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:07 pm
Its not the Republicans who led the push to stop institutionalizing the mentally ill, and are against re-instating that.

How are Republicans trying to undermine public education?

Edit: God damn fat finger typos
Ummmm…Saint Reagan was largely responsible for deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill both as governor and President. On account of psychiatry might lead to communism or something.

Similar to ripping Carter’s solar panels off the White House, old Ronnie quickly dispatched Carter’s new policy of enhancing mental health care.
Well we’ve had 40 fucking years to correct that wrong…and yet, here we are. :roll:
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote:
UNI88 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:35 pm Not wanting to fund mental healthcare has an impact as well and the Democrats don't own that aspect.

[bReducing funding for education is undermining education[/b].

Like just about every other debate, neither party has the high ground on this one.
So having the highest per pupil spending on education in the world is reducing funding on education?
Holy shit, I didn't realize we lived in Luxembourg!

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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:27 pm
HI54UNI wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:22 am Is the pro-life thing the talking point of the day? I'm seeing a lot of that, particularly from some politicians.
Yes. They're concerned about the 18 kids who lost their lives yesterday.

They are NOT, however, concerned about the 600,000 that lost their lives last year because they were aborted. That's all about choice. :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:
Yeah and we’ve lost 1,000,000 to Covid.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:20 pm
BDKJMU wrote: So having the highest per pupil spending on education in the world is reducing funding on education?
Holy shit, I didn't realize we lived in Luxembourg!

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Ok. Sorry. The US was #2 as of 2017.
https://www.insider.com/how-much-countr ... ion-2019-8

Regardless, anyone who thinks we are underfunding education is delusional.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:30 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:27 pm

Yes. They're concerned about the 18 kids who lost their lives yesterday.

They are NOT, however, concerned about the 600,000 that lost their lives last year because they were aborted. That's all about choice. :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:
Yeah and we’ve lost 1,000,000 to Covid.
Yes, and we lose 600,000 EVERY year to abortion. That’s a covid year….every year. For the past 45 years.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:49 pm
kalm wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:30 pm

Yeah and we’ve lost 1,000,000 to Covid.
Yes, and we lose 600,000 EVERY year to abortion. That’s a covid year….every year. For the past 45 years.
So we’re selective in how we view deaths? I agree.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by SDHornet »

HI54UNI wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:10 am How much mental health service could we have paid for with the $40 billion we just pissed away on Ukraine?
Or school security, or care for unaborted fetuses. The irony from the Ukranian flag waivers on this issue is telling. :coffee:
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

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HI54UNI wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:45 am
houndawg wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:18 am

"Could have" is not the same as "would have". Your red herring argument is rejected by the judges. :coffee:
Last I checked Dems control both houses of Congress and the Presidency. If they really cared about this they could approve the funding. :coffee:
Or pass legislation that would "stop" this. Wonder why they are sitting on their hands. Please donks, please take another gun grabbing run leading into the election. :coffee:
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by SDHornet »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:16 pm
HI54UNI wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:27 am Is this part of the problem?

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Of course it is. You see the impact of not having two parents pop up in lots of things. It's actually the leading indicator of a person being able to graduate from college (i.e. students from households with two parents are more likely than anyone else to attend and graduate from college). But we, as a society, don't want to fault or shame people (well, in this case at least, we have a long list of things we do like to fault and shame people about) so instead we trumpet single parent households even though we know it's not a great idea and should be avoided if possible. Problem is we don't want to force people to live in relationships that they should get out of as well so it's a necessary unfortunate reality.
It's worse, single parenthood is encourage and enabled. This issue will only get worse over time.
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:30 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:27 pm

Yes. They're concerned about the 18 kids who lost their lives yesterday.

They are NOT, however, concerned about the 600,000 that lost their lives last year because they were aborted. That's all about choice. :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:
Yeah and we’ve lost 1,000,000 to Covid.
*with
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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by UNI88 »


BDKJMU wrote:
UNI88 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:20 pm Holy shit, I didn't realize we lived in Luxembourg!

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Ok. Sorry. The US was #2 as of 2017.
https://www.insider.com/how-much-countr ... ion-2019-8

Regardless, anyone who thinks we are underfunding education is delusional.
And I believe #4 in 2018 and #5 in 2019. Ummm, what's the trend here?

Anyone who thinks that I said underfunding is delusional because I said defunding.


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Re: Uvalde School Shooting

Post by kalm »

This story gets weirder by the moment. If what’s being relieved is accurate the reaction is going to get ugly.
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